"Partner protection" @ '09 USPA Nationals

[pilotdave 0]

Honestly, you're saying all the same things as every ASC jumper that comes on here to stand up for skyride. "How does it affect you personally?" "They have a great DZ..." Blah blah blah.

You don't have to agree, but some people find spaceland's policy to be BS. You'll always side with the event organizer. You know what they're going through. You understand the tough decisions they need to make. We get it.

Anyway, some people posted that the BOD was looking into this. Anyone got an update on their opinion?

Dave

[AggieDave 6]

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Anyone got an update on their opinion?

I was told there isn't any current official positions on it yet, that they're going to talk about it at the next BOD and that nothing may change (or it might). Not everyone is freaking out, I believe some may even be waiting and seeing the outcome to see if this will be a positive or a negative.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Anyone got an update on their opinion?

I was told there isn't any current official positions on it yet, that they're going to talk about it at the next BOD and that nothing may change (or it might). Not everyone is freaking out, I believe some may even be waiting and seeing the outcome to see if this will be a positive or a negative.

There is a concept.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Honestly, you're saying all the same things as every ASC jumper that comes on here to stand up for skyride. "How does it affect you personally?" "They have a great DZ..." Blah blah blah.

You don't have to agree, but some people find spaceland's policy to be BS. You'll always side with the event organizer. You know what they're going through. You understand the tough decisions they need to make. We get it.

Anyway, some people posted that the BOD was looking into this. Anyone got an update on their opinion?

Dave

Not even close to being the same thing. If you can't see the difference between this and a company that is going out of their way to screw people we have nothing to talk about. If you want to make a logical arguement then go ahead.

[pilotdave 0]

I compared your comments to ASC jumpers. I didn't compare spaceland to skyride. I can see the difference. And the similarities.
Dave

[billvon 2,400]

>Do tell how the situation at nationals effects you.

Personally? I will get less free stuff. Which I don't care too much about. Indirectly? It may impact friends of mine who compete on lower level teams - which I do care about. Hopefully it will not impact them too badly.

Now, how has the annoying ad negatively affected you?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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>Do tell how the situation at nationals effects you.

Personally? I will get less free stuff. Which I don't care too much about. Indirectly? It may impact friends of mine who compete on lower level teams - which I do care about. Hopefully it will not impact them too badly.

Now, how has the annoying ad negatively affected you?

It may cause my blood pressure to go up.

[billvon 2,400]

>It may cause my blood pressure to go up.

Well, there ya go. Less free stuff AND people's blood pressure goes up!

[mjosparky 3]

My head hurts, I am going to go lay down now.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pirana 0]

From the thread title I thought it was a discussion about sponsors handing out specially branded condoms. Think of the naming possibilities; The Reserve, The Swoop & Dock, etc.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[LloydDobbler 2]

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>Do tell how the situation at nationals effects you.

Personally? I will get less free stuff. Which I don't care too much about. Indirectly? It may impact friends of mine who compete on lower level teams - which I do care about. Hopefully it will not impact them too badly.

And this is what I'm concerned about. For instance, my team is currently in the lead of the NSL rookie class. We're headed to Deland in November to compete. Next year, we aim for USPA Nationals.

It would be really nice if we caught someone's eye and they threw a discount and maybe a packing tent in our direction. Next year, you can bet we'd want to set up that tent somewhere at Nationals. But if things keep going this way, we might not get that sponsorship perk (not that we will necessarily, but we like to think someone might notice us).

Not a huge deal...but it does affect us 'lower level' teams. If sponsors decide they won't get the exposure they need for throwing a bone to some of us newer teams, then I'd venture to say it hurts us more in the long run than it does the bigger teams. Even if it's just a few extra jumps that it allows us to make, that's huge for teams like mine that make far less than 100 team jumps per year.

Anyway, I'm with Spot on this one - packing tents, etc, should be considered part of the team's gear. Other promotional stuff, fine. Charge away. (However, on that note the marketing consultant might want to consider offering tiered levels of sponsorship, so smaller companies that don't want to shell out $2 grand can still display a wind blade or whatnot. That's simple Marketing 101 stuff.)

On another note, this whole topic illustrates the conflict of interest the USPA has caught itself up in. Is it a trade organization for DZOs, or is it an organization for skydivers? Who is the USPA representing here? It's an issue that needs to be addressed.

Signatures are the new black.

[mjosparky 3]

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On another note, this whole topic illustrates the conflict of interest the USPA has caught itself up in. Is it a trade organization for DZOs, or is it an organization for skydivers? Who is the USPA representing here? It's an issue that needs to be addressed.

I think USPA has answered that question loud and clear by their actions. Nothing has been enacted in the last few years that were directed at benefiting the average week end jumper. They are by far the largest group of dues paying members but the BOD seem to direct all of their energies toward supporting the Group Members, i.e. DZ’s, and high profile competitors. They are involved in a nasty law suit because of actions taken against SR. It made them appear to be functioning a Trade Organization. Now SR has a pretty good case against USPA for violation of the Sherman Act.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Survivor2007 0]

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Point of clarification: The Golden Knights are not sponsored by the Army, they ARE the Army. They are an Army unit just like the Army Marksmanship Unit, just like the 126th field mess kit battalion, etc.

But they are promoting a product....that product being the Army. If a group of UPT of PD employees......like a group of Army employees.....formed a team, would they be able to set up the UPT or PD Spider Tent? If not, then the Knights should not be able to "promote their product" without paying..........

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know this will not happen because it would be too un-PC, but if they can do it, why can't anyone else?

Let me get this straight. In an attempt to justify your point, you decided to toss the Knights under the bus. Are you upset at your firm's decision NOT to become a sponsor of the USPA Nationals and now you are angry that companies may not "guerrilla market" their products at will all over the event, for free? Try doing that at any other sporting event and see just how quickly you get tossed. Your justification for hitting the Knights is that the Knights are there "promoting" a product and therefore should be charged to display the Army/Knights logo on a tent? First of all, NOTHING the Knights represent is for sale. Nothing they represent takes away from any vendor's potential customer. The only thing the Knights compete for is a medal, period. They are competitors and consumers at the meet. Do they hand out Unit stickers, absolutely. Do these stickers represent a product which is in any way competing for the dollars of anyone attending the event? Nope! YOUR company depends on the Knights "Owners" for a part of your income/profits. Singling them out does nothing to make your argument, in fact is is not close to being relevant. Relax though, your remarks attacking that group of professionals soldiers are not a violation of Political Correctness. They are, however, a display of pure thoughtlessness on so many levels! Fortunately, as professionals, I am sure the team will say nothing. Really, though, nice cheap shot!
To those upset about no logos on a tent might look to the PGA. Golfers wear on their clothing all sorts of logos of companies which might compete with the name sponsors of the particular event. However, all non-event sponsor corporate tents are pure white, logo free. Perhaps it is time for our sport to at least attempt to step up and try to locate larger sponsors outside of our industry. Otherwise, the sponsorship pie is just not growing fast enough to support all the teams seeking support.

[klingeme 0]

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Point of clarification: The Golden Knights are not sponsored by the Army, they ARE the Army. They are an Army unit just like the Army Marksmanship Unit, just like the 126th field mess kit battalion, etc.

But they are promoting a product....that product being the Army. If a group of UPT of PD employees......like a group of Army employees.....formed a team, would they be able to set up the UPT or PD Spider Tent? If not, then the Knights should not be able to "promote their product" without paying..........

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know this will not happen because it would be too un-PC, but if they can do it, why can't anyone else?

Let me get this straight. In an attempt to justify your point, you decided to toss the Knights under the bus. Are you upset at your firm's decision NOT to become a sponsor of the USPA Nationals and now you are angry that companies may not "guerrilla market" their products at will all over the event, for free? Try doing that at any other sporting event and see just how quickly you get tossed. Your justification for hitting the Knights is that the Knights are there "promoting" a product and therefore should be charged to display the Army/Knights logo on a tent? First of all, NOTHING the Knights represent is for sale. Nothing they represent takes away from any vendor's potential customer. The only thing the Knights compete for is a medal, period. They are competitors and consumers at the meet. Do they hand out Unit stickers, absolutely. Do these stickers represent a product which is in any way competing for the dollars of anyone attending the event? Nope! YOUR company depends on the Knights "Owners" for a part of your income/profits. Singling them out does nothing to make your argument, in fact is is not close to being relevant. Relax though, your remarks attacking that group of professionals soldiers are not a violation of Political Correctness. They are, however, a display of pure thoughtlessness on so many levels! Fortunately, as professionals, I am sure the team will say nothing. Really, though, nice cheap shot!
To those upset about no logos on a tent might look to the PGA. Golfers wear on their clothing all sorts of logos of companies which might compete with the name sponsors of the particular event. However, all non-event sponsor corporate tents are pure white, logo free. Perhaps it is time for our sport to at least attempt to step up and try to locate larger sponsors outside of our industry. Otherwise, the sponsorship pie is just not growing fast enough to support all the teams seeking support.

Is that why Nascar doesn't charge the ARMY car or the National Guard car to race, but they charge the Amp car a very large fee......I always wondered why they do that. Thanks for the explaination.


They ARE selling a product that they will be able to market for free at nationals. It may be fair, it may not be, but they will be marketing for free at nationals.

[kallend 1,623]

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Point of clarification: The Golden Knights are not sponsored by the Army, they ARE the Army. They are an Army unit just like the Army Marksmanship Unit, just like the 126th field mess kit battalion, etc.

But they are promoting a product....that product being the Army. If a group of UPT of PD employees......like a group of Army employees.....formed a team, would they be able to set up the UPT or PD Spider Tent? If not, then the Knights should not be able to "promote their product" without paying..........

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know this will not happen because it would be too un-PC, but if they can do it, why can't anyone else?

Let me get this straight. In an attempt to justify your point, you decided to toss the Knights under the bus. Are you upset at your firm's decision NOT to become a sponsor of the USPA Nationals and now you are angry that companies may not "guerrilla market" their products at will all over the event, for free? Try doing that at any other sporting event and see just how quickly you get tossed. Your justification for hitting the Knights is that the Knights are there "promoting" a product and therefore should be charged to display the Army/Knights logo on a tent? First of all, NOTHING the Knights represent is for sale. Nothing they represent takes away from any vendor's potential customer. The only thing the Knights compete for is a medal, period. They are competitors and consumers at the meet. Do they hand out Unit stickers, absolutely. Do these stickers represent a product which is in any way competing for the dollars of anyone attending the event? Nope! YOUR company depends on the Knights "Owners" for a part of your income/profits. Singling them out does nothing to make your argument, in fact is is not close to being relevant. Relax though, your remarks attacking that group of professionals soldiers are not a violation of Political Correctness. They are, however, a display of pure thoughtlessness on so many levels! Fortunately, as professionals, I am sure the team will say nothing. Really, though, nice cheap shot!
To those upset about no logos on a tent might look to the PGA. Golfers wear on their clothing all sorts of logos of companies which might compete with the name sponsors of the particular event. However, all non-event sponsor corporate tents are pure white, logo free. Perhaps it is time for our sport to at least attempt to step up and try to locate larger sponsors outside of our industry. Otherwise, the sponsorship pie is just not growing fast enough to support all the teams seeking support.

Is that why Nascar doesn't charge the ARMY car or the National Guard car to race, but they charge the Amp car a very large fee......I always wondered why they do that. Thanks for the explaination.


They ARE selling a product that they will be able to market for free at nationals. It may be fair, it may not be, but they will be marketing for free at nationals.

Can I buy one?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[topdocker 0]

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Do tell how the situation at nationals effects you. I don't recall reading that.

Having to wade through nine pages of this crap, without someone who is at the DZ defining "sponsored teams."

Wondering if the stickers we hade made to commemorate our fallen teammates will be considered "ambush marketing."

Wondering what other surprises are in store for us competitors when we get there.

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[CSpenceFLY 1]

Maybe you should send them an e-mail and ask.

[topdocker 0]

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Maybe you should send them an e-mail and ask.

Why? It won't change that I will be there. It won't change the fact that I am bringing stickers. It won't change the fact that the there will be other surprises for the competitors.

The DZ has the right to host the Nationals as they see fit. I have personally talked with Eric and feel he is doing a great job hosting this event and trying to get this event recognized beyond our sport related media.

But you are talking to someone who has seen some very interesting "antics" at Nationals and World meets for the last 20 years. I have earned the right to be wary of things like this.

Do I think it will have a dramatic impact on my team competing this year? Nope, but it can lead to some problems in the future, that is why people are voicing their concerns, as they should.

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[billvon 2,400]

>To those upset about no logos on a tent might look to the PGA.
>Golfers wear on their clothing all sorts of logos of companies which might
>compete with the name sponsors of the particular event. However, all
>non-event sponsor corporate tents are pure white, logo free.

Good analogy. Now, do I want Nationals to become like the PGA (or like NASCAR?) Hell no.

>Perhaps it is time for our sport to at least attempt to step up and try to
>locate larger sponsors outside of our industry.

I imagine a day when I go to Nationals and see only Coors, Toyota and Garmin tents, with PD, Aerodyne et al locked out because they could not afford the fees. The allowed sponsor tents would be huge, with inflatable beer cans, shiny SUV's on display and identical T-shirts and jumpsuits on all competitors (a la World Team 2004.) Would I think that was an improvement? Again, hell no.

[topdocker 0]

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>To those upset about no logos on a tent might look to the PGA.
>Golfers wear on their clothing all sorts of logos of companies which might
>compete with the name sponsors of the particular event. However, all
>non-event sponsor corporate tents are pure white, logo free.

Good analogy. Now, do I want Nationals to become like the PGA (or like NASCAR?) Hell no.

>Perhaps it is time for our sport to at least attempt to step up and try to
>locate larger sponsors outside of our industry.

I imagine a day when I go to Nationals and see only Coors, Toyota and Garmin tents, with PD, Aerodyne et al locked out because they could not afford the fees. The allowed sponsor tents would be huge, with inflatable beer cans, shiny SUV's on display and identical T-shirts and jumpsuits on all competitors (a la World Team 2004.) Would I think that was an improvement? Again, hell no.

I wouldn't mind it one bit- if the big sponsors covered my entry fees, hotel, food, gear, practice jumps, and gave me a large cash prize for winning (enough so I could live comfortably like a rock star; and retire after ten years on the circuit and do commentary). Then it would be like NASCAR or the PGA.

I'll keep dreaming...

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[CSpenceFLY 1]

Then,I would say to our manufactuers to step up before they are locked out.

[Survivor2007 0]

NASCAR could not charge the Army to race a car, because the ARMY does not enter a car in NASCAR races. They SPONSOR (there is that pesky word again) the car which is owned by MB2 Racing, a for profit racing team led by investment banking firm principal and auto dealership magnate, Nelson Bowers. The Army does not own the car! They pay for EXCLUSIVE branding rights (decals and the name ARMY CAR). Other sponsors who have their decals on the car/pit area/team vehicles etc. have to PAY for space, just as the managers of the USPA Nationals are requiring all vendors/sales and marketing operations to do at SPACELAND. It just keeps getting worse for you, doesn't it?
Again, you assert that the Knights are selling something. What are they selling? The answer is nothing. What are they marketing? Again the answer is NOTHING. They represent the Army as a career choice and as a way of life. While they are a recruitment arm of the DoD, they are not trained as recruiters. They are not in sales and outside their tent, they are skydiving competitors.
You keep mixing selling with marketing as though there is no difference. WTF? I hope you will be at Nationals to explain this to the Knights. I am sure, as one of your customers, they would love to hear your views explained to them personally. Good luck with that.

[klingeme 0]

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SPONSOR (there is that pesky word again)

or

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pay for EXCLUSIVE branding rights (decals and the name ARMY CAR).

Let's argue semantics now. The point is money is paid to nave the logo displayed the same way it is for all the other logos. That is the corilation I am trying to make.

[davelepka 4]

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They pay for EXCLUSIVE branding rights (decals and the name ARMY CAR). Other sponsors who have their decals on the car/pit area/team vehicles etc. have to PAY for space, just as the managers of the USPA Nationals are requiring all vendors/sales and marketing operations to do at SPACELAND. It just keeps getting worse for you, doesn't it?

...and now it gets worse for you.

Your example does not apply. In your example, Sapceland would be the track the event is held at, let's say Daytona, and the USPA would be the sanctioning body, let's say NASCAR.

Let's keep in mind that just like the Army sponsors the race team, this entire discussion is about companies sponsoring competition teams. So if you want to apply this situation directly to NASCAR, this is essentially what's going on -

"The management at Daytona Motor Speedway has now partnered with serveral corporate sponsors, and as such the race teams will now be limited to how and where they can display their sponsors logos. NASCAR is aware of this, and to date has not issued a statement with regards to this issue. The Daytona Motor Speedway will have officials in place to ensure that the teams do not wrongfully display their logos."

How do you think would go over with the race teams?

Did you not realize that this discussion was about the venue making rules and putting their sponsorship needs above those of the competitors?

It's clear from your posts that you are a pro-ARMY guy, and nobody is saying anything bad about the ARMY or the Knights. Everyone loves those guys.

However, this is a competition meet, and in that sense they are the same as any other team. They are obliged to follow all of the same competition rules as all of the other teams, they have to register by the deadline like all of the other teams, pay their registration fees like all the other teams, and so on. This should extend into following the 'Partner Protection' policy, just like all the other teams have to.

To go back to your NASCAR comparison, the ARMY most certainly pays big money to sponsor that car. They do not recieve a free pass. If the new rules at Nationals is that non-event sponsors have to take a back seat to the paying event sponsors, then let the ARMY buck-up and sponsor the meet, or take the same back seat that PD, UPT, Sunpath, Tony Suits and Cypres have to take (all of who I am sure are sponsoring more than one team this year).

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Sorry but this is the same. I bet you don't just buy a ticket to Daytona, walk in and just start putting up banners for what ever you want. The competitors are the cars, they can have what they want on their bodys. Spaceland is the track, if you want to decorate the track you have to pay. Simple as that.

I'm sure if we heard the whole story we would find out the the manufactures helped to create this situation.