Coach Rating beneficial for someone not ready to coach

[guppykf 0]

I checked the search forum and didnt find where anyone else asked this question...amazing I think!

I was approached by my DZO and asked if I wanted to attend an upcoming coach rating course. I told him I felt I was nowhere close in my own skydiving abilities yet let alone assisting another newer skydiver. I dont know when I may feel I will have enough decent skills to help another, but I anticipate I need at least a couple hundred more jumps and a few hours or freefall to even begin to feel qualified. Heck I still slide on my arse on landings most of the time.

Beside, per the SIM's you need to have 100 jumps and I dont have that yet either. He stated he thought it would be beneficial to building my own skydiving skills and that I should attend none the less.

So the question is: For those that have this rating, does it assist one's own's skills?
Once I am qualified (have the min. # of jumps and pass the course, if i take it), I don't have to use it until I feel proficient enough to guide another..right?

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[davelepka 4]

There's a chance he's just trying to fill out a smaller coach course. You'll learn all sorts of stuff, but you'll also tie up a couple of days in a classroom and spend a couple hundred bucks.

If they can get you the rating without the 100 jumps, and you plan to get the rating eventually, take it. If you're not sure about it, take your couple of days and cash and just spend them fun jumping.

[NWFlyer 2]

Seems a little bit odd - especially if your DZO is planning to charge you for the course, but also knows that you aren't anywhere close to being eligible (just based on the 100 jump minimum alone - I know nothing about your skills or readiness.) Granted, you might be able to have all the requirements on the card signed off pending completion of the 100 jumps, but ... why not wait till you have 100?

I'm not sure how I feel about his assertion that the coach course helps you improve your skydiving skills. If it's done right, it does help you improve your teaching and observation skills, but as for the course itself improving your skydiving ... no. Working with actual students can improve your skills for sure, but you really have to have the base of skills on your own - nothing in the course is going to teach you better in-air skills.

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Once I am qualified (have the min. # of jumps and pass the course, if i take it), I don't have to use it until I feel proficient enough to guide another..right?

Of course, it's always your choice to work with a student, but I wonder if your DZO isn't desperate for coaches, which is why he's pushing you through the course before you're even eligible. In that case, you might be pressured to work with students before you feel you're ready.

My gut instinct on this one? Take the course when you want to, when you feel you're ready, not when someone else tells you to. Although the coach doesn't have the level of responsibility of the AFF or S/L or IAD instructor, he or she should still feel confident and comfortable in performing their job and adding value to the student experience. If you don't feel ready to do that ... don't.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[AggieDave 6]

Teaching a skill to someone really teachings YOU the material as well. However, I would take this opportunity in your skydiving career to study up on a few things before taking the coach course. Go take a few canopy classes from a couple of different canopy coaches. That will teach you a lot about how to teach canopy control (and I bet you learn something from it). Do the same with some RW coaching from a good RW coach. Some have said going through a program like SDU will really help you teach body flight skills.

Also take the opportunity to read up on adult learning.

That knowledge will help you teach when you're ready to teach. That coaching will help you get to a point in which you're ready to fly your body with a student.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[danielcroft 2]

I did the coach course with ~280 jumps, it wasn't the flying skills that were a problem for me, it was the mental aspect of looking after another person. If you're not actually going to be doing coach jumps and it works for you to do the course I think it could be interesting/useful.

My wife did the course with 101 jumps, she found it quite stressful.

YMMV

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I'd say a large number of people with coaches rating are not ready to coach

[DSE 3]

The coach course will not help your flying skills unless the instructor takes the time to teach you more about flying (which isn't part of the Coach Course program). It will test your flying skills, and you may find the evaluation process will teach you how you might consider your techniques and understand more about how you fly.

You will learn a lot about the dynamics of teaching, and lay a foundation that should help you as you move forward in skydiving. It will potentially build your communication skills, particularly in the area of how you communicate with others about their skydiving experiences.

The course has very little to do with flying skills and very much to do with learning/understanding the fundamentals of skydiving instruction that you'll need to have when/if you progress to further instructional ratings.

Bottom line is that if you feel you're not ready, you probably shouldn't proceed unless you're simply looking for more knowledge that will help guide you as you progress in skydiving and instruction.
I still attend coach courses whenever I can, simply because I like to pick up bits and pieces, techniques and thought processes from others.

[kmills0705 0]

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I checked the search forum and didnt find where anyone else asked this question...amazing I think!

I was approached by my DZO and asked if I wanted to attend an upcoming coach rating course. I told him I felt I was nowhere close in my own skydiving abilities yet let alone assisting another newer skydiver. I dont know when I may feel I will have enough decent skills to help another, but I anticipate I need at least a couple hundred more jumps and a few hours or freefall to even begin to feel qualified. Heck I still slide on my arse on landings most of the time.

Beside, per the SIM's you need to have 100 jumps and I dont have that yet either. He stated he thought it would be beneficial to building my own skydiving skills and that I should attend none the less.

So the question is: For those that have this rating, does it assist one's own's skills?
Once I am qualified (have the min. # of jumps and pass the course, if i take it), I don't have to use it until I feel proficient enough to guide another..right?

No, you are not ready. Not at this point in your skydiving career. Don't rush it. You are still learning to apply skills to your own skydiving. You are not ready to learn how to teach someone else.

Last summer a guy at our dz was gung ho to take the coach course at 100 jumps. I have been an evaluator for three coach courses now and tried my best to prepare him. I had to sit down and tell him he wasn't ready... it led to a lot of resentment and he took the course but never received his rating. (Money wasted if you ask me).

If you want to be a better skydiver don't take a coach course to do so, take a skills course (weather it be canopy or belly skills or something of that sort). Start Skydiving in OH (not too far from you) is offering several skills courses this summer. Spend your time and money on that.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[skydude2000 3]

This is just awesome timing
I've had few people tell me I'll be fine and I'll be a great coach. My DZO has been nudging me for a while, 'How many jumps are you at now???? So, when are you taking the coach course???'

But that doesn't stop me from having doubts. I don't think I'll have trouble with the coaching part, but I still worry about my flying.

I think you should have a good feel for whether or not you're ready.

I THINK I'm ready, but I'll only know after the course.

Either way, good luck to ya, and BLUE SKIES!!

PULL!! or DIE!!

[moto89 0]

I wouldn't say that a coach course will make you fly any better, but it might just increase your in air awareness.

I think it's very important to be confident in your own abilities before taking the course though. The flying on coach jumps really isn't very demanding (no more so than simple RW jumps). The major difference is that your focus has to change from yourself to your student.

You need to be sure enough in your own skydiving that you can go from climb-out to break off without thinking about what you're doing, it has to be instinctive because your focus needs to be 100% on the student. How can you tell if a students hips are symmetrical if you're concentrated on your fall rate? I think that the requirements for flying camera and coaching are similar. You must be confident skydiving with a giant distraction (capturing "the shot", or in the case of a coach capturing the student)

The main job of a coach IMO is to be a human video camera, to mentally capture the jump and then to be able to articulate the events accurately and constructively on the ground.

Less talking, more flying.

[guppykf 0]

Thanks for all the advice; yeah some people are harder headed than others regarding their own abilities. Based on what this course actually entails I agree I am not ready to attend this course at this time.

I am scheduled for both the basic and advanced canopy course at Start the week of 21 May. It is my goal to get myself from sliding on my arse I want to go do the belly flying course next weekend there as well, but unfortunately work is interferring with my play time

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[guppykf 0]

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This is just awesome timing
I've had few people tell me I'll be fine and I'll be a great coach. My DZO has been nudging me for a while, 'How many jumps are you at now???? So, when are you taking the coach course???'

But that doesn't stop me from having doubts. I don't think I'll have trouble with the coaching part, but I still worry about my flying.

I think you should have a good feel for whether or not you're ready.

I THINK I'm ready, but I'll only know after the course.

Either way, good luck to ya, and BLUE SKIES!!

Good luck!!! Learn lots and have fun!!

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[kmills0705 0]

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Thanks for all the advice; yeah some people are harder headed than others regarding their own abilities. Based on what this course actually entails I agree I am not ready to attend this course at this time.

I am scheduled for both the basic and advanced canopy course at Start the week of 21 May. It is my goal to get myself from sliding on my arse I want to go do the belly flying course next weekend there as well, but unfortunately work is interferring with my play time

Smart girl!

I will see you out at Start on May 21st. I will eb there the weekend for the Mid East Skydiving League (MESL) meet... my four way team is competing there that weekend.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[Southern_Man 0]

I've only got a few less jumps than you.

I wouldn't let myself be pushed into something that I'm not ready for. I am nowhere near ready to tackle the coach course. I may not be ready anywhere near 100 jumps, either.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kallend 1,623]

On the whole I think you will improve your skydiving skills more by joining a team and training with them. The NSL has a rookie class.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AKula99 0]

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The main job of a coach IMO is to be a human video camera, to mentally capture the jump and then to be able to articulate the events accurately and constructively on the ground.

I like that!

I snatch kisses & vice versa.

[burtonjm 0]

I'll be taking the canopy course on the 22nd. I'll probably see you at the DZ

This shit, right here, is OK

[guppykf 0]

GREAT!! I think the course is going to be greatly helpful. Yeah I scheduled myself such that I am taking the basic course friday, work on skills learned Friday on saturday and take the advanced course on Sunday.

Hope to meet you and Kim! See ya soon!

Again, thanks all for the helpful information!!

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[kmills0705 0]

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The main job of a coach IMO is to be a human video camera, to mentally capture the jump and then to be able to articulate the events accurately and constructively on the ground.

I like that!

I very much disagree with this... this is a part of what a Coach does, but the pre-jump instruction (TEACHING the objectives of the jump, TEACHING the non method specific portions of the first jump course. Post jump it is the job of the coach to review the skydive and immediately apply any additional instruction needed to make the next jump successful>

I'd personally say teaching is a pretty big role of the coach. And while being able to give accurate feedback is a one aspect of being a coach, I would disagree it is the MAIN aspect of a coach.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[moto89 0]

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The main job of a coach IMO is to be a human video camera, to mentally capture the jump and then to be able to articulate the events accurately and constructively on the ground.

I like that!

I very much disagree with this... this is a part of what a Coach does, but the pre-jump instruction (TEACHING the objectives of the jump, TEACHING the non method specific portions of the first jump course. Post jump it is the job of the coach to review the skydive and immediately apply any additional instruction needed to make the next jump successful>

I'd personally say teaching is a pretty big role of the coach. And while being able to give accurate feedback is a one aspect of being a coach, I would disagree it is the MAIN aspect of a coach.

I don't think I worded that very well. I more or less meant that in air, that is the job of a coach. My comments were directed more towards the flying abilities of a coach, not the teaching abilities.

It goes without saying that a large part of a coach's job is to prepare the student for the jump. This entails teaching the skills that are required to complete the jump, but just as importantly to get the student mentally prepared and ready to succeed (confident, excited, and sure of the dive flow).

Less talking, more flying.

[kmills0705 0]

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The main job of a coach IMO is to be a human video camera, to mentally capture the jump and then to be able to articulate the events accurately and constructively on the ground.

I like that!

I very much disagree with this... this is a part of what a Coach does, but the pre-jump instruction (TEACHING the objectives of the jump, TEACHING the non method specific portions of the first jump course. Post jump it is the job of the coach to review the skydive and immediately apply any additional instruction needed to make the next jump successful>

I'd personally say teaching is a pretty big role of the coach. And while being able to give accurate feedback is a one aspect of being a coach, I would disagree it is the MAIN aspect of a coach.

I don't think I worded that very well. I more or less meant that in air, that is the job of a coach. My comments were directed more towards the flying abilities of a coach, not the teaching abilities.

It goes without saying that a large part of a coach's job is to prepare the student for the jump. This entails teaching the skills that are required to complete the jump, but just as importantly to get the student mentally prepared and ready to succeed (confident, excited, and sure of the dive flow).

Ok... that I agree with!!
In the air the coach is a mere observer... in air instruction is left to AFF Instructors.

At my dz we have a static line and AFF program. When the student progresses to a 15 second delay they have a Coach in the air observing each category. They are taught turns on the ground and in the air I tell them not to look for me, use me as a point of reference, etc. Then when I have an AFF student they do have to look for me (AFF students must "ask" for turns and instructor must reply with an "ok").

Jumping from Coach jumps (on a static line progression) to AFF jumps is a complete change in mindset.

I have a current student who is going through the static line progression. He was thinking of transitioning over to AFF but had a jumper friend tell him that he is better off with static line and given small amounts of altitude "to screw up" in reference to turns and ending up in a fast spin.

So this was what I told him to sum up the big difference between the two progressions.

On the static line jump I am going to teach you how to do turns. Then when we jump I will watch you doing your turns, If you start spinning you have to stop it, if you can't or lose altitude awareness you need to pull.

On the AFF jump I will again teach you on the ground, but when we go up I will be in the air with you in very close proximity. Should you start to spin I will go in and stop it, should you lose altitude awareness I will signal you to pull, should you not be able to I will pull for you.

Of course this is a very abbreviated synopsis of the conversation, but it makes a strong case for AFF. I have been a big supporter of the static line progression method but looking at it in that perspective I think I made a pretty strong argument for AFF.

Also being both a static line I and AFF I I told him if he was lucky to have me as an instructor on his 15 second delays and above I can do more than observe and pull for him, stop turns etc.

He chose to continue his progression and we went up on his 15 second delay and knocked out turns and did an amazing job.

Then I am amazed at a s/l progression student getting in turns in 15 seconds whereas the AFF student gets about 45 seconds.

I love being an instructor in both disciplines.

Sorry for the deviation from the topic... I guess I am a little wordy this morning.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[danielcroft 2]

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In the air the coach is a mere observer... in air instruction is left to AFF Instructors.

I thought coaches were able to give signals to the students in-air, excluding the pull signal of course? If this is the case then, minus touching and telling the student to pull, I'd classify that as in-air instruction.

[DSE 3]

In the air, the role of the coach is to set the fall rate, provide a solid/stable base for the student, and observe student actions and provide hand signals if needed, as well as set an example for the student.
-Assess skill levels
-Review prior training
-Train
-Debrief (compare goals set prior to the jump with the results/achievements of the jump).

[azureriders 0]

As an active Coach Examiner, my advice to you is try and sit in on the course. You should not have to pay for it, as you will not actually be inrolled in the course. You will learns TONS from the class room, briefing and debriefing sections of the course. You will not experience the eval dives, but as said up thread, these will not teach you new flying skills.

In the end you will no doubt have learned some new things, and you will have a good idea of wheather or not you would like to get your coach rating at a much later date.

Teaching any skill will enhance that skill in your self more than anything else you can do. You must first however, have the basic skill. Don't rush it.

100 jumps for a coach rating is a minimum, not a recomindation, kind of like pulling at 2500' with your B license.