The number of jumps required for jumping a camera in different countries

[colossus 0]

Your CSPA info is out of date.
As per the April 2008 PIM 1:

3:23
Parachutists, possessing at least a B CoP, and being competent in the freefall discipline in which they wish to participate as a videographer, should seek advice from experienced freefall videographers regarding the type of equipment to be used in order that they may safely engage in this activity. At least one functioning audible altimeter must be used, and an Automatic Activation Device should also be used.

There are also mentions in PIM 2C, but that was last updated in 2004

[rhys 0]

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Your CSPA info is out of date.
As per the April 2008 PIM 1:

Yes that was clarified in an earlier post.

The ruling has changed in Canada from C COP to B COP

which is an absolute minimum of 50 jumps before jumping a camera, along with the other pre requisites.

I tried to copy and paste it in here but the PDF it was on would not allow me to do so.

There is a link to the CSPA regulations earlier in the thread however.

Thanks for pointing it out though.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DSE 3]

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I am not getting around a ban, I was told that the content of this thread has no place in the photography forum.

False

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Which is not likely to happen, you have said that already and that is why this thread was started.

False

It would be beneficial to have a thread that relates to regulations/recommendations from around the world in the Photo forum.
It is not great to have a thread where (once again) you choose to debate the merits of jump numbers, why you're superior because you started early, or why the USPA recommendations hinder progress.
If people want to PM me with info (please include links for accuracy-check) relating to their specific regulations/recommendations, I'd look forward to and appreciate creating a compilation of those regs.
As we've seen in this thread, inaccurate info is clearly out there anyway.

[rhys 0]

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I am not getting around a ban, I was told that the content of this thread has no place in the photography forum.

False

that is open to interpretation,

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I warned you that there wasn't going to be debate on US rules and every one else' rules in the camera forum.
The Photo forum isn't SC nor General, and it's kept very clear and concise for a reason.

The only reason it became a debate is that people insist that anything less than 200 jumps is not safe.

That is not the case.

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Which is not likely to happen, you have said that already and that is why this thread was started.

False

So you are saying you expect a representative from those institutions to come forward?

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It would be beneficial to have a thread that relates to regulations/recommendations from around the world in the Photo forum.

Then that thread would be subject to debate from 'anyone' that disagree with any of the said regulations.

You will find that it would not be me, I would welcome such a thread, my point the whole time was to include the recommendations of everybody, not just the USPA and that is why I started this thread. I intended this thread to be a simple and informative one, but violent opposition to anything less than the USPA minimum resulted in once again, a debate on the subject.

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It is not great to have a thread where (once again) you choose to debate the merits of jump numbers, why you're superior because you started early, or why the USPA recommendations hinder progress.

I do not beleive I am superior, where have I ever said that?

That is a false accusation.

I know that thousands of other people from various countries have safely avanced through a progression similar to mine. Canada has recently dropped the minimum from 100 freefalls to 50.

Why would they do that do you think?

South africa has 75 jumps, people from those places deserve to utilise the regulations that are applicable to them, without being ridiculed by those that disagree with it.

I simply pointed out that the USPA recommendation that you posted as a sticky is only relevant to USPA jumpers and that this is an international website. Others disagree with the rules of other countries, and that is where the debate came from.

I like the model I worked with, and my career would have been set back by at least a year or 2 if I was subject to the recommendations of the USPA. I am allowed to think that, and i am allowed to say that.

Others can disagree, and once again that is where we might end up with a debate.



If you do not think there should be a debate on the subject, it is kind of hypocritical to continue debating it yourself.


Or were you attempting to get the last word in?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[pchapman 261]

@ DSE:
I don't know what was going on in the Photography forum, but this is a good thread & discussion to have somewhere. And it isn't as if there aren't any other skydivers with an ego.

For the thread:

People always end up focusing on jump numbers (or licence levels) because it is pretty clear whether someone meets that requirement or not. It is simplistic, but avoids having to laboriously evaluate someones' skills.

In the Canadian rules example, it says that the jumper must be experienced in the discipline they are filming -- but people will focus on the B licence requirement as the absolute minimum.

[stratostar 5]

After wasting my time to read through this drivel of your on going rant (all hail rhys) it's clear your the worlds leading expert in all things camera and your progression is far Supérieur in the global market place.

It would be a good idea if you could start your own website free of the rules and repressive moderation of this kommunist gestapo kamp that is hell bent on hiding the real truth from the world community and spreading their kommunist agenda across the globe.....

Please set everyone free and start your own website and spend a lot of your time there.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DSE 3]

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@ DSE:
I don't know what was going on in the Photography forum, but this is a good thread & discussion to have somewhere. And it isn't as if there aren't any other skydivers with an ego.

For the thread:

People always end up focusing on jump numbers (or licence levels) because it is pretty clear whether someone meets that requirement or not. It is simplistic, but avoids having to laboriously evaluate someones' skills.

As mentioned here, I'm pleased to put toether a sticky compilation of various organizations regulations/recommendations. I believe it would be beneficial.
What we're not going to have is another thread in P&V about why 200 jumps sucks, or how starting jumping camera at 50 jumps makes one better. There are already more than 10K posts on those subjects.
I further agree an intelligent discussion of camera requirements is a good thing to have. I just don't believe it can be done in this context. It _always_ turns to noise from the usual suspects, and that's why there is SC, Bonfire, and General.

[DiverMike 5]

I don't know this guy Rhys, and I generally disagree with everything he says, but you moderators seem to have it out for him. You told him to post it to Quade's forum and Quade then said it was bad form to post to a different forum.

I suppose you moderators are being PC and just not telling him to STFU.

On a slightly relative note, my wife bought me a Go Pro for my birthday. I am still at least 136 jumps from taking it out of the box. Be encouraged that some people listen to experienced skydivers

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[skyrider 0]

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I don't know this guy Rhys, and I generally disagree with everything he says, but you moderators seem to have it out for him. You told him to post it to Quade's forum and Quade then said it was bad form to post to a different forum.

I suppose you moderators are being PC and just not telling him to STFU.

On a slightly relative note, my wife bought me a Go Pro for my birthday. I am still at least 136 jumps from taking it out of the box. Be encouraged that some people listen to experienced skydivers

They work for scuba and other sports too ya know!

[riggerrob 558]

Hah!
Hah!
Hah!

[riggerrob 558]

Like I tell aspiring Canadian riggers: the American Federal Air Regulations may not be LAW in Canada, but they are considered "best business practices."

Arguing the difference between American FARs and Canadian Air Regulations is a waste of time, because the differences are tiny. In the end, all riggers are supposed to work towards the same standards.
Heaven forbid that any of your rigging customers dies, because if a lawyer for the prosecution can prove that you ignored a FAR, you stand alone in court.

Remove the word "rigger" and insert the word "freefall photographer."

[rhys 0]

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Like I tell aspiring Canadian riggers: the American Federal Air Regulations may not be LAW in Canada, but they are considered "best business practices."

Arguing the difference between American FARs and Canadian Air Regulations is a waste of time, because the differences are tiny. In the end, all riggers are supposed to work towards the same standards.
Heaven forbid that any of your rigging customers dies, because if a lawyer for the prosecution can prove that you ignored a FAR, you stand alone in court.

Remove the word "rigger" and insert the word "freefall photographer."

Since you are in Canada, and seem to have a grasp on canadian rules.

Can you please explain to us why you beleive the reccomendation for jumping camera has been lowered in recent years from C Cop to B Cop?

I would appreciate yout input.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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After wasting my time to read through this drivel of your on going rant (all hail rhys) it's clear your the worlds leading expert in all things camera and your progression is far Supérieur in the global market place.

It would be a good idea if you could start your own website free of the rules and repressive moderation of this kommunist gestapo kamp that is hell bent on hiding the real truth from the world community and spreading their kommunist agenda across the globe.....

Please set everyone free and start your own website and spend a lot of your time there.

Serously your attempt to insult me is in vein, there will be plenty of people reading this thread that are in australia, NZ, canada, and south africa (among other countries) wondering what all the fuss is about.

There will be moderators reading these posts and I SURE HOPE THEY USE THIER DILLIGENCE, by removing those comments of yours. and warnng you about it.

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Please set everyone free and start your own website and spend a lot of your time there.

Us and them huh,

Nice.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[skyrider 0]

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Like I tell aspiring Canadian riggers: the American Federal Air Regulations may not be LAW in Canada, but they are considered "best business practices."

Arguing the difference between American FARs and Canadian Air Regulations is a waste of time, because the differences are tiny. In the end, all riggers are supposed to work towards the same standards.
Heaven forbid that any of your rigging customers dies, because if a lawyer for the prosecution can prove that you ignored a FAR, you stand alone in court.

Remove the word "rigger" and insert the word "freefall photographer."

Since you are in Canada, and seem to have a grasp on canadian rules.

Can you please explain to us why you beleive the reccomendation for jumping camera has been lowered in recent years from C Cop to B Cop?

I would appreciate yout input.

I can give you an American Cameraman's input...Camera's are much smaller and much simpler now....

[rhys 0]

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I can give you an American Cameraman's input...Camera's are much smaller and much simpler now....

Be careful bro, as much as I can see your point, you open yourself to ridicule with a comment like that.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[stratostar 5]

Attempted insult, NO! More like saying you don't know when to STFU and for the last year or so you've been repeating the same shit over and over and over and over and over..... anytime anyone asks about learning camera or starting to use a camera, 90% of the time it's someone in North America operating under USPA guild lines and you always turn it into this shit:

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What we're not going to have is another thread in P&V about why 200 jumps sucks, or how starting jumping camera at 50 jumps makes one better.

And that is why you were banned, your continued kicking of the dead cat..... and if you don't like the rules here then start your own website where your free to post as you see fit.

The bottom line here our USPA rules are OUR's and as members jumping in the states they need to heed those rules and not listen your I did it at a 100 jumps so it's ok because that's the rules over here bullshit!

I'm sure if you take the time to submit the other countries rules to the moderator of the correct forum he would be happy to add them to the list, by doing so your time would be better served then starting a pissing match.... again.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[skyrider 0]

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Attempted insult, NO! More like saying you don't know when to STFU and for the last year or so you've been repeating the same shit over and over and over and over and over..... anytime anyone asks about learning camera or starting to use a camera, 90% of the time it's someone in North America operating under USPA guild lines and you always turn it into this shit:

Quote

What we're not going to have is another thread in P&V about why 200 jumps sucks, or how starting jumping camera at 50 jumps makes one better.

And that is why you were banned, your continued kicking of the dead cat..... and if you don't like the rules here then start your own website where your free to post as you see fit.

The bottom line here our USPA rules are OUR's and as members jumping in the states they need to heed those rules and not listen your I did it at a 100 jumps so it's ok because that's the rules over here bullshit!

I'm sure if you take the time to submit the other countries rules to the moderator of the correct forum he would be happy to add them to the list, by doing so your time would be better served then starting a pissing match.... again.

another want-a-be Mod?

gezzz is his thread piss you off that much, why are you reading them?

[stratostar 5]

No & No, not pissing me off, and for the most part I quit reading the photography threads because of the same posters talking the same shit on each thread. I've said my point of view and now like the rest of the threads related to this topic I'm done wasting time here and there.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 558]

Back around 2000, CSPA upped the requirements for all C.O.P.s, bringing the new "B" C.O.P. closer to the old "C."

This was part of Harro Trempaneau's (former CSPA president) attempt at establishing one global standard for skydiving licences/certificates of proficiency.
Sadly, USPA insisted on their own - slightly different - standard. The difference is not enough to kill anyone, but just enough to confuse everybody, which means that we are still struggling with a variety of standards.
NIH is alive and well in the USA!!

[rhys 0]

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The difference is not enough to kill anyone, but just enough to confuse everybody, which means that we are still struggling with a variety of standards.

I am not struggling, and most people do not, but 'others' can't quite grasp things they are not used to, these small few create a big problem.

I have been trained in (tandem) 3 different countries (NZ, AUS, and USA) I have jumped in many others, each time the rules were subtly different but rather easy to acknowledge. Some I agree with and others no, but each place is different with different needs.

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NIH

?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[riggerrob 558]

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NIH

?

.......................................................................

"Not Invented Here"

Translated: Americans hate to admit that anything was invented outside the USA, like collapsible pilot-chutes, sleeves, ZP fabric, Spectra suspension links, soft connector links, S.O.S., "universal" cutaway system, spiral spring pilot-chutes, modern electronic AADs, line guides, deployment bags, hip rings, belly-flying, solo, free-style, chute-assis, gas turbine engines, controllable-pitch propellers, ejection seats, etc.

[rhys 0]

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What we're not going to have is another thread in P&V about why 200 jumps sucks, or how starting jumping camera at 50 jumps makes one better.

There you go again, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of context.

There is a distinct difference between pointing out that not all rules are the same for everybody and saying one is better than the other.

This whole debate would be resolved if it were simply acknowledged that each place has its own guidelines.

And those should be sought by individuals that are in need if that information.

This thread was began to fill that void. But once again, I am told by bigots over and over that it is unsafe to do anything less than the USPA standard.

Which is incorrect.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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"Not Invented Here"

Translated: Americans hate to admit that anything was invented outside the USA, like collapsible pilot-chutes, sleeves, ZP fabric, Spectra suspension links, soft connector links, S.O.S., "universal" cutaway system, spiral spring pilot-chutes, modern electronic AADs, line guides, deployment bags, hip rings, belly-flying, solo, free-style, chute-assis, gas turbine engines, controllable-pitch propellers, ejection seats, etc.

Lol, gotcha.

Loud and clear

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[pchapman 261]

To expand on what riggerrob wrote:

For Canada, into 2000, requiring a "C" for video meant 100 jumps minimum. After the new license levels were applied, "C" meant 200 jumps. Then somewhere around 2007 the "B" became the minimum, dropping it down to 50 jumps minimum.

Among those I know, the change down to a "B" came out of the blue. Although there are clear risks with camera jumping, I'm guessing the issue just didn't come up as enough of a problem to put in place relatively restrictive rules.

[virgin-burner 1]

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NZ and South africa do not allow tandem ratings to be issued to those with less than 1000 jumps

+1

i think it's 1000 here in switzerland too, not sure, could also be 750..

and as long as you are licensed, nobody really gives a shit if you strap a camera to your helmet!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda