Radio Freq

[Andy_Copland 0]

Just a quick note on safety. Just want to know if you've had inconsiderate and basically dangerous pilots in your air space.

Today i was waiting to go up and watching for the jumpers when a helicopter came cruising ino the area, i was next to the radio when she asked the helicopter to make a 90 degree turn right and the fucker just kept going (excuses my language but it really got to me) the pilot didnt drop the jumpers as he saw it and decided to go round again. They tried twice to get the helicopter pilot on the radio but he/she never answered and just went straight through.

Just to top things off a military jet came cruising in earlier this moring, i dont know if they listened to instructions because i wasnt there, but apparently it came in and then turned around and went back.

Is this common???

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Adriandavies 0]

UK DZ's often are in closed air space but that doesn't stop some pilots occasionally violating it. It just goes to show that you should check your airspace before you exit.

[NWFlyer 2]

Always assume that other air traffic is gonna do its own thing, despite the fact that your jump pilots announce parachute activity and the location.

I jump at a very busy private airport and we try to be very careful about scanning for air traffic when we're spotting. So do our pilots. Always assume they don't see you or know that there's skydiving going on. Radios are off. Radios are on the wrong frequency. The pilot is a student whose general awareness is low. Or they're just an asshole and don't really care. Any number of things can contribute.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[scrublink 0]

Here is New England we have some areas that have pretty busy airspace. We also had a skydiver that collided with a plane in freefal some years back. Skydiver broke his ankle and quit jumpting. Plane and four occupants crashed and died. They were lost and about 30-40 mile north of their intended course. Wrong radio fregqency for the area too.
We have had quite a few close calls in the last few years and I suspect part of it is due to the fact that most people navigate by gps now , even when they are flying VFR. You can fly over an active DZ as long as its not in some other type of restricted airspace, and a lot of times you don't have to talk or listen to anyone. (The aircraft that crashed was not violating any rules at the time).
Keep your eyes open when you are still in the aircraft and after leaving. Spotting isn't just about looking at the ground to find your exit point.
On a side note. I am also a pilot and when I come across pilots that don't take skydivers safety seriously, I like to remind them that the aircraft crashed and the skydiver lived. Puts things in perspective for them.

[billvon 2,434]

Not sure how the UK is different, but in the US, at most DZ's, skydiving is a 100% VFR activity. That means you have to share the air with everyone else. No one is obligated to listen to your radio call or bypass the DZ. Indeed, it would not be out of place for an approaching aircraft to expect the DZ to suspend operations while he passes. Since both are VFR activities, both must see the other and avoid him.

In your case both the jet and the aircraft had an equal right to that airspace (at least they would if they were in the US.) That's why clearing your airspace is so important before you jump.

[sweep 0]

As I understand the UK situation, the attitude (though not necessarily the law) is a little different over here. Our 'big sky' is a whole lot smaller than yours so non-confliction of different aviation activities is by and large considered by all pilots.

Although not always technically classed as controlled airspace, all UK parachute drop zones must be notified by NOTAM, and the drop zone must also contact their local air traffic control centre when they go active/stand down each day. This activity information is relayed by ATC to other pilots in the area receiving a flight information or other service outside controlled airspace. Because of the density of controlled airspace over the UK and the density of traffic in the remaining uncontrolled airspace, the vast majority of pilots will take at least a flight information service to assist them in maintaining separation.

The Civil Aviation Authority maintains a comprehensive list of all UK drop zones with their local radio contact frequencies, these are also passed by ATC when notifying pilots of proximity to an active DZ.

The official line from the CAA is

Quote

"Intense free-fall is conducted up to FL 150 at permanent drop zones (see UK AIP ENR 1–1–5–7). Activity information may be available from certain ATSUs but pilots are advised to assume a drop zone (DZ) is active if no information can be obtained.
Parachute dropping aircraft and, on occasions, parachutists may be encountered outside the DZ circle shown on the chart and pilots are strongly advised to give a wide berth to all active DZs"

While there is no specific offence for flying through a DZ without calling in, it is generally considered that pilots are responsible for making sure they know what they are flying over, and transiting an active DZ without talking to the DZ controller, or ignoring a DZ controllers request to go around to avoid conflicts, would likely class as one (or both) of the following criminal charges :

Quote

Endangering safety of an aircraft
63 A person shall not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft,
or any person therein.
Endangering safety of any person or property
64 A person shall not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any
person or property.

The Air Navigation Order 2000

That said, knowing the pilot is going to get prosecuted is unlikely to be much of a comfort as you collide with him. It remains, as ever, important that parachutists and DZ controllers do their jobs and make sure there are no conflicts with other traffic before jumping.

However, the attitude here certainly means that we get very few airspace incursions on the whole, generally pilots are very good about calling in, and very happy to go well round the outside of our area if there is a conflict with them flying straight across. Although I did have four fighter jets fly directly overhead the field at 1500 feet last weekend while I was on DZ control. They can't have been on frequency since the only reply to my "Tornado formation over Strathallan, this is Strathallan" was silence. But the difference here is we have a mechanism to report that and various people at their end will get a significant earbashing which will help to stop any repeat occurrence.

Sweep

----
Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

[riggerrob 558]

I jump at a very busy private airport and we try to be very careful about scanning for air traffic when we're spotting.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When I worked at Snohomish, my favorite response - to aircraft encroaching on the East student field - was to get on the Harvey Field frequency and say: "Some idiot in a blue and white Citabria just flew through an active parachute drop zone."
That usually resulted in the guilty bastard turning away.

As for the week of the Arlington Fly-In ... just admit to yourself that there will be dozens of visiting aircraft, all tired after a long cross-country, unfamiliar with local airspace and likely with an out of date map.
Fly with your eyes open!

Some other pieces of airspace (i.e. Los Angeles Basin) are so hopelessly complicated, that you cannot expect any pilot to fully understand them - unless he flies in them ever day - and you just have to depend upon ATC to provide separation.
Mind you, some of my closest calls have been in controlled airspace. The most recent was in the Pitt Meadows Airport control zone. A Mooney blundered in without talking to ATC. I guess he was so overwhelmed by his instrument panel that he forgot to use his windshield!

Transport Canada threatens to heavily fine any pilot they catch with an out of date map.
... and if you think the FAA is bad about marking DZS on maps ... Transport Canada routinely marks DZs that have been inactive for 5 or more years. By the same token, Transport Canada often don't update maps until 5 years after a parachuting NOTAM has been issued.

[napaguy99 0]

We pilot types have our own secret code word for an aerial "map". We call it a chart. It's purely to confuse non-pilots.

"Let the misinterpretation and attacks begin."