Witelli 0 #1 September 2, 2005 This question is mostly hypothetical, but I'm curious. So I'm about 220lbs at 5'10" (fatbastard) and I still rent gear, a Navigator 240. I'm not sure exactly what is my exit weight, but I'm probably close to a 1.1 wingloading. Can anyone estimate how much the gear weighs for me? Anyway, if I lost 40 pounds tonight, would I have the same canopy experience if I flew a Navigator 200 tomorrow? I think you'd probably agree that wouldn't be too much of a problem. But if I said I was going to fly a Stiletto 190, you'd probably say absolutely not. (example is off only because I don't think they make a stiletto 200 or a Navigator 190, but we can assume the Navigator and Stiletto would be the same size and wingloading) Why is wing loading such a big deal when canopy performance has so much to do with it? I saw a thread that discussed recommended wing loadings that were added to the new SIM. Could this be misleading, 'cause if you go to the PD website they have recommended exit weights and experience levels for their canopies? I'm probably asking a stupid/already discussed question and I may not have my facts straight, but I figured I'd throw it out there since I have nothing better to do. Plus, I want to learn everything I can. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #2 September 2, 2005 Performance Designs on Wingloading and Its Effects. That'll answer most of your questions. Have a read, chat with your instructors, and then come back here and ask any questions you haven't had answered to your satisfaction Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Witelli 0 #3 September 2, 2005 That was perfect. Thank you!!! One thing though, they say the model doesn't change speed assuming same wing loading. But glide angle might change. I'm assuming speed refers to forward speed and glide angle would increase downward speed, am I correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #4 September 2, 2005 > I'm assuming speed refers to forward speed and glide angle would > increase downward speed, am I correct? Speed generally refers to airspeed, and glide angle refers to horizontal over vertical speed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #5 September 2, 2005 I hope you could find some canopy between Navigator and Stiletto. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Elisha 1 #6 September 2, 2005 Yeah, like a Sabre(2)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #7 September 3, 2005 An appropriately sized Triathlon will go easy on newbies."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudi 0 #8 September 4, 2005 Quoteif you go to the PD website they have recommended exit weights and experience levels for their canopies Just to be clear, those are maximum wingloadings for each experience level. If you exceed the wingloading in one category, it puts you into the next one up. QuoteCan anyone estimate how much the gear weighs for me? Student gear (meaning in your case, large rig with large canopies) is probably around 30 lbs. That means that your exit weight is about 250 lbs. Your exit weight puts you in the "Advanced" category for wingloading on a Navigator 240, just so you know. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skr 1 #9 September 7, 2005 > Why is wing loading such a big deal when canopy > performance has so much to do with it? I think that's just the human tendancy to look for a simple rule of thumb for a complex situation. Some well chosen simplifications can really help in understanding and in coming up with answers that are good enough, but people take it too far and try to zero in on just one factor. For canopies it's wing loading and rules relating wing loading with number of jumps, for exit separation it's "just wait 5 seconds and go" or maybe the "45 degree rule", for landing it's "follow the first person down". Maybe that's better than nothing, I'm not sure, but it's certainly not good enough. And you see people doing this everywhere, not just in skydiving. Wasn't it Einstein who said a physical theory should be as simple as possible, and no simpler? Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Witelli 0 #3 September 2, 2005 That was perfect. Thank you!!! One thing though, they say the model doesn't change speed assuming same wing loading. But glide angle might change. I'm assuming speed refers to forward speed and glide angle would increase downward speed, am I correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #4 September 2, 2005 > I'm assuming speed refers to forward speed and glide angle would > increase downward speed, am I correct? Speed generally refers to airspeed, and glide angle refers to horizontal over vertical speed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #5 September 2, 2005 I hope you could find some canopy between Navigator and Stiletto. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #6 September 2, 2005 Yeah, like a Sabre(2)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #7 September 3, 2005 An appropriately sized Triathlon will go easy on newbies."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #8 September 4, 2005 Quoteif you go to the PD website they have recommended exit weights and experience levels for their canopies Just to be clear, those are maximum wingloadings for each experience level. If you exceed the wingloading in one category, it puts you into the next one up. QuoteCan anyone estimate how much the gear weighs for me? Student gear (meaning in your case, large rig with large canopies) is probably around 30 lbs. That means that your exit weight is about 250 lbs. Your exit weight puts you in the "Advanced" category for wingloading on a Navigator 240, just so you know. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #9 September 7, 2005 > Why is wing loading such a big deal when canopy > performance has so much to do with it? I think that's just the human tendancy to look for a simple rule of thumb for a complex situation. Some well chosen simplifications can really help in understanding and in coming up with answers that are good enough, but people take it too far and try to zero in on just one factor. For canopies it's wing loading and rules relating wing loading with number of jumps, for exit separation it's "just wait 5 seconds and go" or maybe the "45 degree rule", for landing it's "follow the first person down". Maybe that's better than nothing, I'm not sure, but it's certainly not good enough. And you see people doing this everywhere, not just in skydiving. Wasn't it Einstein who said a physical theory should be as simple as possible, and no simpler? Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
