Tatetatetate 0 #51 September 28, 2011 Sounds familiar. I remember a guy who chopped on club gear because it couldn't be flown (the brakes were simply not attached). From the ground through the teles it looked like a good canopy. He was asked not to come back. Again another guy who had a hard pull and went to reserve first jump after qualifying. He was asked to leave and never come back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #52 September 28, 2011 QuoteAs a new jumper in the '80's I sought advice after being told not to ask for pin checks. Pissed off some people, got banned from that DZ "for life." (Moriches, Long Island.) A couple of years later I almost went in while dealing with a VERY hard reserve pull. Scared the DZO, was kicked off that DZ. Was told I was "controversial." (Woodstock CT.) In both cases I did nothing wrong, yet was blacklisted. Count me among those who think this type of list is a bad idea. Cheers, Jon S. That sounds a little odd to me. However if you got a disproportionate number of blacklistings from one particular DZO, it might raise a few questions about THEIR suitability to conduct operations, so it could work against someone who blacklisted jumpers unfairly. Conversely, if one name pops up from a variety of DZO's its an indicator that perhaps that individual needs to be watched....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #53 September 28, 2011 Quote In both cases I did nothing wrong, yet was blacklisted. Count me among those who think this type of list is a bad idea. That's bizarre. Were you pretty new to each DZ? Sometimes new people can face a "perception problem" with a DZO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #54 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuote In both cases I did nothing wrong, yet was blacklisted. Count me among those who think this type of list is a bad idea. That's bizarre. Were you pretty new to each DZ? Sometimes new people can face a "perception problem" with a DZO. And that's the issue. We have one side of the story here. No offence to Airman, but we just dont have the whole picture. The same would be true with this "blacklist". We'd have the DZO version and opinion, with very little an individual could do to address it.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #55 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote In both cases I did nothing wrong, yet was blacklisted. Count me among those who think this type of list is a bad idea. That's bizarre. Were you pretty new to each DZ? Sometimes new people can face a "perception problem" with a DZO. And that's the issue. We have one side of the story here. No offence to Airman, but we just dont have the whole picture. The same would be true with this "blacklist". We'd have the DZO version and opinion, with very little an individual could do to address it. Yeah, But theres not a lot to refute when a bland statement saying: " Mr X, of such and such a place, has 100 jumps and has purchased a pocket handkerchief which is too radical for his experience level, could be well worth checking on." A date would obviously give a reference point as to when the warning was given. A contact number could also be listed on order to facilitate further queries. Not much to be challenged there, especially in the short term. At least it gives a heads up, which might help in a few, if not all cases. Gotta be better than nothing. Could also be a bit of an incentive for one or two to pull their head in if they know people are aware of them.... In the good old days it happened a bit. We used phones rather than computers, thats all.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #56 September 28, 2011 QuoteIn the good old days it happened a bit. We used phones rather than computers, thats all. That's a big difference.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #57 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteIn the good old days it happened a bit. We used phones rather than computers, thats all. That's a big difference. As long as the message gets thru that there is a numbskull lurking, who cares how?. Reputations (good and bad), often precede the physical manifestation.... It can be done a bit more efficiently these days, thats all.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatetatetate 0 #58 September 28, 2011 There is a problem with this too! In that I had a hard landing in my training and the first DZ I went to stuck me on a massive 288 canopy. (I weigh about 10 stones). They wouldn't take me off it for financial reasons (so I'd keep renting their rig). Strangely I went to another DZ and they stuck me on a 190. And told me about how the old DZ did crafty tricks like this to keep people renting their gear as long as possible to roll in the $$$. Hell this new DZ I jump at tells me my 190 I own is way too big for me and I should be jumping a 170 maybe even a 150 as I've been pumping the jumps out and I always land within about 10 metres of the X. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatetatetate 0 #59 September 28, 2011 Doesn't fly.. What is the average age of DZO and CCI in the UK? Probably about 80 from what Ive seen. Thus I've met some dinosaurs in my short time. Who don't do the internet. For example I was humiliated and grilled savagely for daring to ask online about another DZ. He said you should pick up the ******* phone and ask them about it. (I glassed over after this statement but he continued to grill for a very long time). Strangely the DZO in the thread was quite happy to answer my questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #60 September 28, 2011 QuoteThere is a problem with this too! In that I had a hard landing in my training and the first DZ I went to stuck me on a massive 288 canopy. (I weigh about 10 stones). They wouldn't take me off it for financial reasons (so I'd keep renting their rig). Strangely I went to another DZ and they stuck me on a 190. And told me about how the old DZ did crafty tricks like this to keep people renting their gear as long as possible to roll in the $$$. Hell this new DZ I jump at tells me my 190 I own is way too big for me and I should be jumping a 170 maybe even a 150 as I've been pumping the jumps out and I always land within about 10 metres of the X. DZO's who operate like your first should not be in business. I've come across a few like that..... As far as the 2nd DZ goes, as long as you temper their advice with a bit of common sense, you should be OK. Erring on the side of caution is not a bad policy until you've gained relevant experience.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #61 September 28, 2011 QuoteDoesn't fly.. What is the average age of DZO and CCI in the UK? Probably about 80 from what Ive seen. Thus I've met some dinosaurs in my short time. Who don't do the internet. For example I was humiliated and grilled savagely for daring to ask online about another DZ. He said you should pick up the ******* phone and ask them about it. (I glassed over after this statement but he continued to grill for a very long time). Strangely the DZO in the thread was quite happy to answer my questions. Ah....BPA....say no more. The UK would be the exception to any intelligent solution to skydiving problems. The UK jump scene is run by a bunch of dinosaurs like no other to be found on this planet. Anyone who jumps there for fun is pushing shit uphill. BPA and the politics that go with it make it the worst place in the world to skydive. Save your money and zoom across to Spain or Holland.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #62 September 28, 2011 >As long as the message gets thru that there is a numbskull lurking, who cares how? Because it's very different to post anonymously on a board and say "Joe fucking SUCKS!" vs. picking up a phone and telling a DZO that. >It can be done a bit more efficiently these days, thats all. Such a system would be far _less_ efficient if done via the net, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatetatetate 0 #63 September 28, 2011 Quote The UK jump scene is run by a bunch of dinosaurs like no other to be found on this planet. Anyone who jumps there for fun is pushing shit uphill. BPA and the politics that go with it make it the worst place in the world to skydive. Save your money and zoom across to Spain or Holland. A lot of people tell me that, Sarah a kiwi who sold me her AAD, told me jumping in the UK killed her love of skydiving. Jo a Elisnore regular from 00-05 said pretty much the same things. Funny enough an ex BPA council member (the VP) no longer jumps in the UK and jumps in Spain instead. I hadn't considered Holland tbh... where would you recommend? As I was going to ride out to Spain in 2012 but Holland is of course much closer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #64 September 28, 2011 QuoteBecause it's very different to post anonymously on a board and say "Joe fucking SUCKS!" vs. picking up a phone and telling a DZO that. Thats a point, but if you are going to post a warning, why should you not be prepared to put your name to it. Any system is open to abuse, the question is whether the pros outweigh the cons... As I said, it can work both ways. Multiple warning posts from the same source could raise questions about their objectivity. As I said, reputations soon get around... If a warning list meant one less numbskull to scrape off the ground after getting a heads up, I'd say it was worth it.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #65 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuote The UK jump scene is run by a bunch of dinosaurs like no other to be found on this planet. Anyone who jumps there for fun is pushing shit uphill. BPA and the politics that go with it make it the worst place in the world to skydive. Save your money and zoom across to Spain or Holland. A lot of people tell me that, Sarah a kiwi who sold me her AAD, told me jumping in the UK killed her love of skydiving. Jo a Elisnore regular from 00-05 said pretty much the same things. Funny enough an ex BPA council member (the VP) no longer jumps in the UK and jumps in Spain instead. I hadn't considered Holland tbh... where would you recommend? As I was going to ride out to Spain in 2012 but Holland is of course much closer. Only DZ in Holland I've visited is Texel, I was impressed. They have a good attitude to jumping, and welcome everyone. I know a few Dutch jumpers, they're all pretty good guys...I've heard that the other DZ's are OK as well. Conversely, the 5 or 6 DZ's I visited in GB sucked, without exception. Very poor attitude and vibe during jumping, and it comes from the top down. Show up at the DZ as a stranger, and you WILL be ignored.... The less experienced know nothing else so can't really be blamed, they reflect the example set. Most British jumpers I've met can't believe how much fun skydiving can be, till they jump in another country. As you can gather, I have not, and never had, much time for anything influenced by the BPA.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatetatetate 0 #66 September 28, 2011 Your post strikes a chord with me, since I did have this horrible nagging feeling it shouldnt be like this! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #67 September 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote The UK jump scene is run by a bunch of dinosaurs like no other to be found on this planet. Anyone who jumps there for fun is pushing shit uphill. BPA and the politics that go with it make it the worst place in the world to skydive. Save your money and zoom across to Spain or Holland. A lot of people tell me that, Sarah a kiwi who sold me her AAD, told me jumping in the UK killed her love of skydiving. Jo a Elisnore regular from 00-05 said pretty much the same things. Funny enough an ex BPA council member (the VP) no longer jumps in the UK and jumps in Spain instead. I hadn't considered Holland tbh... where would you recommend? As I was going to ride out to Spain in 2012 but Holland is of course much closer. Only DZ in Holland I've visited is Texel, I was impressed. They have a good attitude to jumping, and welcome everyone. I know a few Dutch jumpers, they're all pretty good guys...I've heard that the other DZ's are OK as well. Conversely, the 5 or 6 DZ's I visited in GB sucked, without exception. Very poor attitude and vibe during jumping, and it comes from the top down. Show up at the DZ as a stranger, and you WILL be ignored.... The less experienced know nothing else so can't really be blamed, they reflect the example set. Most British jumpers I've met can't believe how much fun skydiving can be, till they jump in another country. As you can gather, I have not, and never had, much time for anything influenced by the BPA. i vouch for texel as well, i was there three weeks ago, really nice facilities, cool instructors that didnt hassle me too much with papers (just the usual, insurance, license, logbook, didnt even look at the rig), welcoming jumpers, even tough i wanted to make a solo because there were mostly bellyfliers around, i still got pulled to do another WS-jump.. i'll go to texel again! oh, and relatively cheap too at 25 euros a pop. oh, and the scenery, being an island n'all.. really cool place! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #68 September 29, 2011 Quote As I said, it can work both ways. Multiple warning posts from the same source could raise questions about their objectivity. As I said, reputations soon get around... If a warning list meant one less numbskull to scrape off the ground after getting a heads up, I'd say it was worth it. I'd say it's not worth it. As you say, "reputations get around." People are still gonna get scraped up off the ground. Having been one...an internet list would have served to make me more determined, and would not have stopped me from flying the way I did prior to my injury. I was warned. A DZO or S&TA calling another DZ is a personal conversation between two people. An internet list is a public doc for many to see. I'm sure you see the difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rugby82 0 #69 September 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote The UK jump scene is run by a bunch of dinosaurs like no other to be found on this planet. Anyone who jumps there for fun is pushing shit uphill. BPA and the politics that go with it make it the worst place in the world to skydive. Save your money and zoom across to Spain or Holland. A lot of people tell me that, Sarah a kiwi who sold me her AAD, told me jumping in the UK killed her love of skydiving. Jo a Elisnore regular from 00-05 said pretty much the same things. Funny enough an ex BPA council member (the VP) no longer jumps in the UK and jumps in Spain instead. I hadn't considered Holland tbh... where would you recommend? As I was going to ride out to Spain in 2012 but Holland is of course much closer. Only DZ in Holland I've visited is Texel, I was impressed. They have a good attitude to jumping, and welcome everyone. I know a few Dutch jumpers, they're all pretty good guys...I've heard that the other DZ's are OK as well. Conversely, the 5 or 6 DZ's I visited in GB sucked, without exception. Very poor attitude and vibe during jumping, and it comes from the top down. Show up at the DZ as a stranger, and you WILL be ignored.... The less experienced know nothing else so can't really be blamed, they reflect the example set. Most British jumpers I've met can't believe how much fun skydiving can be, till they jump in another country. As you can gather, I have not, and never had, much time for anything influenced by the BPA. i vouch for texel as well, i was there three weeks ago, really nice facilities, cool instructors that didnt hassle me too much with papers (just the usual, insurance, license, logbook, didnt even look at the rig), welcoming jumpers, even tough i wanted to make a solo because there were mostly bellyfliers around, i still got pulled to do another WS-jump.. i'll go to texel again! oh, and relatively cheap too at 25 euros a pop. oh, and the scenery, being an island n'all.. really cool place! You could also have a look at Teuge (http://www.paracentrumteuge.nl/). You can make a lot of jumps there and a really good DZ too. Or if you wanna jump from an International Airport you can try Rotterdam (www.skydiverotterdam.com), the only problem there is you can only make 4 jumps a day because the DZ is an half hour drive from the airport.Blue skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #70 September 29, 2011 QuoteI hadn't considered Holland tbh... where would you recommend? http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Europe/Netherlands/index.html SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tatetatetate 0 #71 September 29, 2011 I saw that, the reviews were years old though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #72 September 29, 2011 then it's time for you to make a new one! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
