Getting into Skydiving

[popnbrown 0]

So I've been convinced that I need to get into skydiving. It's just really awesome. I haven't been on a jump yet, but I've been saving up money for quite a bit of time (poor college kid :( ) and I want to shoot straight for training.

Now I've been reading a lot through DZ.com and other places about AFF vs. Static Line and customized programs etc. To be honest, it's really overwhelming at the number of options there seem to be.

So I stepped back and perused USPA licensing standards to hopefully understand what exactly is required to get a license and how these options fit that.

My basic understanding to get an A License is you have to complete a few things:
- Show proficiency in 8 Categories via oral quizzes and actually physically doing them and get them checked off by a USPA instructor
- Make 25 jumps
- Make a final check jump with a USPA instructor to show full competency in the categories

So what confuses me, is that there are certain DZs that have a "training" package with only 10 jumps? Doesn't that not allow them to get an A License?

Many say that S/L is cheaper but longer than AFF. Wouldn't it technically be quicker because you can do initial S/L jumps (which count toward your 25) even in not so great weather, whereas you can't with AFF. So is that just DZ attempt to get you to do AFF?

If you fail any level AFF or Static Line does it still count toward your 25 jumps?

Also feel free to comment on Static Line vs. AFF progression. I'm currently leaning towards Static Line because of costs. Without failing anything it's about $900 cheaper, and I figure I'll truly enjoy my solo jumps more than those with instructors.


Those are all the questions I have for now! I'll post them as I think of them.

Thanks and looking forward to jumping out of an airplane :D

[NWFlyer 2]

An A license is an A license is an A license, no matter how you get there. As you've already discovered, there is a set of skills that you have to demonstrate and have signed off, and once you've demonstrated those, you can get an A license. AFF and static line (or IAD, which is a similar method to static line) both get you there, they just take a different path. However, with either approach, if you are progressing steadily and demonstrating the skills, you can get to an A license in 25 jumps.

Repeated jumps do count for your 25 jumps towards the A license - there's definitely some wiggle room in the 25 jumps to give you plenty of time to demonstrate the skills even with repeated jumps.

As for various packages, that's just marketing and packaging. Some dropzones will package up the AFF jumps, or all the instructor-led jumps, or various other combinations. In order to compare apples to apples, the right question to ask is "What are the expected costs to earn my A license at your dropzone?" That includes ground school for the first jump, the cost of jumps with instructors, the cost of solo student jumps, gear rental (if it's not included in the jump - some dropzones include it in the price for all jumps, others only include it in the price for the AFF jumps), the cost of a packing class (sometimes free, often not), etc. Ask if the cost of a USPA license/membership fee is built into the student package (most don't) or if a USPA Skydivers Information Manual is built into the price (most don't, but a few do).

Of course, that's not the only thing you might want to consider; if you're fortunate enough to have multiple dropzones within a similar driving distance, go check them all out. See what you think. Talk to the instructors. See if they answer your questions or blow you off*. Hang out. See what you think. I would also put in a plug for staying reasonably close to home; while you may be able to shop around and get a better price in another state for your student jumps, I'd argue that you'll set yourself up for a better overall skydiving experience if you get to know your local dropzone from Jump 1 and become integrated into the overall community there. Learning doesn't stop when you get that A - it is really just starting. If the locals have gotten to know you as a student, they'll be more likely to help you grow as a newly-licensed jumper.

*Note: You may have better luck getting some time with instructors on a weekday than on a weekend - your best bet is to call ahead and ask. An instructor may just be super-busy and not have time to talk during the jump day, but if you plan ahead, you should be able to get some time with someone who can answer your questions.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[beeman 0]

People who know more can fill in with more information (I am in a very similar position and just completed AFF a few weeks ago).

The training package with 10 jumps is probably just to get you through AFF training. you do need at least 25 jumps for an A license.

I obviously don't know what static line is like, but I will say that jumping with instructors was fun for me, particularly jump 4 and after because you start doing more stuff and they're flying with you more as opposed to holding onto you. I had a blast on dives 4 - 7 with my instructors.

Solo jumps are fun, but it's also awesome to jump with someone (instructor or coach until you get your A). Jumping with an instructor is a always huge learning experience, but probably more fun and less rigid than maybe you think.

Edited to say: I had a blast on all my AFF dives, just 4-7 are more like what you're talking about because you're more supervised than held onto.

well...I was going skydiving anyway. let's go.
Earn your pancakes.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

S/L is a valid option. It doesn't necessarily take longer overall, but it takes a minimum of 5 jumps to actually pull your own parachute, and a few more to get to a full altitude freefall.

AFF is a full altitude freefall from jump one.

I think S/L makes better canopy pilots because you aren't focused on freefall stuff for the first few jumps. Just arching and pulling. Then landing the canopy.

And AFF is a solo jump, more or less. You have instructors holding you steady during freefall and pulling for you if necessary, but you are still alone in your harness and it's just you under canopy (with radio guidance at many places).
AFF isn't tandem. Although some places have you do a tandem or 2 to start offf.

And there's nothing wrong with AFF. It's a great training method.
I'm a little biased towards S/L because it's how I did it, and how the DZ I jump at does it.

And to be honest, if you are leaning towards S/L becuase you can't afford AFF, you are really in the wrong sport.

This stuff gets expensive fast. It can be done on a budget, and there are usually ways to offset the costs, but plan on spending a lot of money if you plan to make it your pasttime.

Standard answer to the question of how much money does it cost:

All of it. And then some.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[skydiverbry 0]

Just my humble opinion but I would consider doing a tandem jump before going straight into AFF or S/L


A tandem jump will give you a better feel of an actual skydive while taking off the pressures to perform specific tasks.




Bry

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Just my humble opinion but I would consider doing a tandem jump before going straight into AFF or S/L


A tandem jump will give you a better feel of an actual skydive while taking off the pressures to perform specific tasks.




Bry

Depending on where the OP goes, that may actually be part of the progression. Even if it's not a formal part of the progression, if you let them know that you're interested in going into the full training program, hopefully they can turn it into more of a training tandem.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[popnbrown 0]

Quote

Quote

Just my humble opinion but I would consider doing a tandem jump before going straight into AFF or S/L


A tandem jump will give you a better feel of an actual skydive while taking off the pressures to perform specific tasks.




Bry

Depending on where the OP goes, that may actually be part of the progression. Even if it's not a formal part of the progression, if you let them know that you're interested in going into the full training program, hopefully they can turn it into more of a training tandem.

Yeah, I'm already going for one. I just like to be a step ahead, and just in case I can start the program right away then I'll have all of this awesome information.

I'm actually looking for a school that would let me do a tandem as a training tandem. I've heard that some instructors are very good, in that they give you a full out lesson about what is happening, if you want to listen and they let you pull the ripcord/help land.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Yeah, I'm already going for one. I just like to be a step ahead, and just in case I can start the program right away then I'll have all of this awesome information.

I'm actually looking for a school that would let me do a tandem as a training tandem. I've heard that some instructors are very good, in that they give you a full out lesson about what is happening, if you want to listen and they let you pull the ripcord/help land.

Where do you live? Folks on here might be able to give you some thoughts on your nearby options.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[skydiverbry 0]

True. I just know that when I wanted to get into jumping I had the same thought. "This is what I want to do and I'm going straight into training".

Well,I blew off peoples advice of taking a tandem and WOW was I surprised at the sensory overload I experienced on AFF 1

The jump went ok but could have went alot smoother, I think, had I known what to expect after exiting the plane.

I didn't really appreciate the freefall experience till a few jumps later because of this.




Bry

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[popnbrown 0]

As for the affording, I'm going to try to do what I can, but I don't want to keep saving up for so long that I'll forget about it. My philosophy is that money will come and go, but I've got to chase what I want to do in the moment.

Hence, if I want to skydive and get an A License, I should just go for it. I may not get enough money to continue in the sport but I'll at least have 25 jumps and a license to show for. Plus with the license i'll be able to jump at places for as little as $20 (+$30 for gear), which would be very awesome.

[popnbrown 0]

This is an interesting question. I'm currently out in King of Prussia, PA, until the summer is out (about four more weeks).

Then I'll be over in Champaign, IL.

Does anyone think it's possible to do it within the four weeks? I'm excited but I'm trying to hold myself because it may take more than four weeks and I don't want to get all eager and sign up.

[excaza 1]

It's totally possible to do it in four weeks, really you're mostly at the mercy of the weather and how much time you are willing to stick around the DZ. The instructor jumps can go pretty slowly depending on the available staff, but once you clear AFF you can really start powering through the solo and coach jumps.

[skydiverbry 0]

I'm also from PA...Johnstown area and the weather in PA does not necessarily like to cooperate with conditions for students to jump in.


Why rush??? Keep in mind that you will be at the mercy of the weather,DZ hours,instructor availability.. The sky will be there. Find the time when you don't have to rush and the learning experience will be that much better and more relaxed.



Bry

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[popnbrown 0]

I want to rush because I want to get out and jump ASAP. :D

However, because I'm going to be shifting DZs in 4 weeks, it doesnt make sense to start training and then shift, unless I can get it done in 4 weeks.

By completing Static Line and AFF progression does that mean I basically complete all of the A License proficiency? Would I be able to basically take my logbook to another DZ and try to get my 25 solo jumps or do I have to do all of my training and 25 jumps at 1 DZ?

[skydiverbry 0]

I understand the desire to want to get out there and jump....but the sky will always be there.


You can start out at one DZ then finish at another DZ but if 4 weeks is all you have to wait till you move I would, and this is just me, wait tilll I am settled in IL. and start the full training course there.


I believe your training will have a better continuity and make it easier to learn.

The instructors will get to know you better from jump one through your graduation dive and better be able to assess you strengths and weakness throuout the course.

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[beeman 0]

I'd agree with skydiverbry. Getting it done in 4 weeks and having to do so are very different things. Weather may not cooperate, and you might need some time to learn some of the things you need. Better to have the time to learn them well then stress and try to rush through it. And better in that case to be around the instructors who have been watching you.

AFF doesn't cover everything needed for your A. AFF is more staying altitude aware and managing instability so that you are deemed safe enough to be up there without someone to hold you stable/pull your parachute.

Below is the link to the A license progression card. It has everything you need to do to get your A.

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Form_ALicenseProfandApp.pdf

Good luck :)

well...I was going skydiving anyway. let's go.
Earn your pancakes.

[skydiverbry 0]

Oh, and I think I forgot.

Don't student have to jump every 30 days to stay current!?
This might be hard to do if you have that 4 week start at one DZ and then have to go thru the hassles of moving and start at a new DZ.

I'm not trying to discourage you just giving you my opinions based on my experiences





Bry.

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[popnbrown 0]

Is the proficiency card filled out completely by the final dive check or can it be filled out as you go along?

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Is the proficiency card filled out completely by the final dive check or can it be filled out as you go along?

It should be filled out as you go along.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[popnbrown 0]

You guys are awesome for a) replying so dam quickly and b) being really helpful with answering questions.

I want to expand a bit more on my situation. I currently have transportation out in Illinois I will have limited transportation. I don't take my car out to college, but I have it on me at home. Hence another reason why I want to get as much jumping as I can.

Another question, after I complete the AFF or S/L training, in general would I qualify for the cheaper regular drops or only when I get a license? Basically, would I still have to pay $185 after completing all of the proficiencies and qualifying as a solo jumper (if such a thing exists)?

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

Another question, after I complete the AFF or S/L training, in general would I qualify for the cheaper regular drops or only when I get a license? Basically, would I still have to pay $185 after completing all of the proficiencies and qualifying as a solo jumper (if such a thing exists)?

Pricing at dropzones is tricky, because they are all different, but generally you would be somewhere in between. The jumps would be less expensive than AFF but more than a licensed jumper price. You would still be paying gear rental and for at least some jumps you would be paying for coaching (which could be slot of slot+money to the coach)

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Divalent 89]

solo student jumps should be the same cost that any licensed skydiver would pay: lift ticket and gear rental. Coached jumps will probably cost you extra (unless you are a hottie female, then they are free).

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

Quote

Another question, after I complete the AFF or S/L training, in general would I qualify for the cheaper regular drops or only when I get a license? Basically, would I still have to pay $185 after completing all of the proficiencies and qualifying as a solo jumper (if such a thing exists)?

Sort of.

The fun jumper rate is simply the ride up to altitude.

For students, different rules and rates apply.
A lot of it depends on the DZ.

S/L is where it gets "cost effective." For AFF you need an instuctor or two on all the jumps until you graduate to solo status.

With S/L, depending on the level, you need less and less supervision. The cost per jumps depends on how much you need.

You will reach a point where you are a student "cleared for self supervision" and can do solo jumps. This is true for both AFF and S/L.

Most places charge fun jump + rental for solo student jumps. Some add a little charge because you do need instructor supervision on the planning and debrief.

You will also need a few coach jumps in there. Those cost more because you are paying for the coach's slot, and sometimes paying for the coach (DZs differ).

It really depends on the DZ. You will have to figure out where you want to jump and talk to them.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[decompresion 2]

Skydiving costs:
Getting to A license - $1500 to $2500
Gear: Rig 4000 (includes first reserve pack, shipping...etc) , suit 200, alti 75, helmet 200
100 Jumps after A license: $2500
gas: $18 each time you go (based on 30 mpg, 75 miles each way, $3.5/Gal)

Just getting started = $8600 to $9600 in the first 125 jumps
This does not include: food, beer, boogie fees, video, coaching (post license), license fees, tunnel time, reserve repacks, Regular packjobs, water training, videos, pictures, speeding tickets and many other incidentals.
(If you think my math is off, I checked my records and the first 128 jumps cost $10,237)

$900 are a drop in the bucket and not a factor in making a decision.
Prepare to spend at least $5000/year (about 150 jumps a year)

Skydiving is an expensive hobby. There are much cheaper ways to get your thrills, impress the ladies, find meaning in life, have an adventure, fill a hole in your soul, get a personality, die or main yourself, make friends, get out of a funk, have a midlife crisis, check an item of a bucket list, find your tribe, be part of a small club, learn to master your own body, learn from your mistakes, learn from other's mistakes, be a rebel....

It is not just money, it is time.
Skydiving will also alienate you from some people. You will spend your weekends at a dropzone while your friends are out socializing and trying new things. The explosive high from the first few jumps will transform into the high of getting better and succeeding, but if you are just in it for the adrenaline and the "rush" your tenure in the sport might be short lived.
Waking up every weekend in the season at 6:30am and driving an hour and half to the dropzone. Sitting on the ground while the winds are too high for a student and driving home too late on Sunday to hang out with your wuffo friends.

And you are already off to a rocky start. Zero jumps and you are already asking for advice on the internet. The internet is the number one worst place to learn to skydive. Because even as you read this you must be aware that I could be full of shit, making honest mistakes, misleading you on purpose, drunk, and idiot and all of the above.
Close the browser, delete the link to this page, delete your account and call a dropzone. Call 20 dropzones. I will even give you the numbers to some of them:
9256347575: Bay area
8566294600: Crosskeys
6192168416: san diego
5204663735: Skydive AZ
8137839399: Z hills
18665867872: Chambersburg
3867383539: Deland
2815953772: Spcaeland
9784339222: pepperell
5409436587: Orange
9512459939: Elsinore
Call any one of these and say "I would like some advice from an instructor, S&TA, or DZO" tell them your story and listen. I repeat "listen". In three hours on the phone you will get more information than three years on the internets. Better yet, go to a dropzone.

Furthermore:
You will be lucky if there is one dropzone close to where you live. What choice do you have? You take whatever is available at that place. You could do a destination course. Travel to a busy dropzone, pitch a tent, hand over a credit card and don't leave till you got what you came for. You are young, you will survive

Welcome to the sport!

There are no dangerous dives
Only dangerous divers

[nigel99 150]

A couple of thoughts. If you are really keen to jump skip the tandem and go straight into a first jump course. I did static line as a 16 year old kid and certainly couldn't afford to jump regularly (AFF wasn't an option for me anyway). The 2 really big advantages of static line are per jump cost, and being able to jump when there is cloud that would prevent AFF. Cloud depends on your local geography. The lower cost per jump comes into play if you don't have the finance to hit the training quickly.

Given the choice I would do AFF over a period of 2 or 3 consecutive weekends and then slow the pace to match finances.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.