Bad Lander!

[staton23 0]

Hello all,

I am a recent A License grad now with 32 jumps under my belt. During my training, I landed on my feet about half of the time. Since I've gotten my license, I've jumped at 3 different DZs and with different rental gear.

I'm having a problem with my landings. Most of the time I flare 1,2,3, then end up sliding, never feeling like my flare has given me enough to stand up. ON my last jump I flared too early, went back to the 2 position, then finished at 3, landed on my feet, then PLFed! Not a hard landing, but not on my feet like I wanted.

Could anyone give me some tips, pointers, any advice I could try? I'm jumping mainly on Sabre 2 and Sapphires around the 230 canopy range.

[costanza 0]

I know how you feel. Not too many jumps compared to others, low 40s, but had the same experience with rental gear that you did. That's the problem - you're using rental gear. Every time I rented gear, it was almost always a different canopy. That makes it hard to time your flares. You don't have the same confidence in the canopy only because you don't have as much experience with it. How broken in some of those canopies were also adds to the flare, as does a host of other factors.

I think the biggest thing you can do is to try and get the same canopy if you are renting gear. That way, you can build up some of that muscle memory and confidence. Once you get your own gear, that learning curve will start again.

One thing I thought was a good idea was to try different canopies every time I rented, when I could, to try out different models. Like getting a different rental car when you travel. Sadly, it takes more time to learn the subtle nuances of a canopy than it does for a rental car. Why the hell do they still make cars with crank windows and manual locks???

Hope that helps!

[Bertt 0]

Get somebody to video some of your landings, then look at the video, preferably with a good canopy pilot or instructor. You will see the answer.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[dontlikemustard 0]

take a canopy course. it helped me a lot.

and it sure is cheaper than a broken ankle

[Krip 2]

Quote

Hello all,

I am a recent A License grad now with 32 jumps under my belt. During my training, I landed on my feet about half of the time. Since I've gotten my license, I've jumped at 3 different DZs and with different rental gear.

I'm having a problem with my landings. Most of the time I flare 1,2,3, then end up sliding, never feeling like my flare has given me enough to stand up. ON my last jump I flared too early, went back to the 2 position, then finished at 3, landed on my feet, then PLFed! Not a hard landing, but not on my feet like I wanted.

Could anyone give me some tips, pointers, any advice I could try? I'm jumping mainly on Sabre 2 and Sapphires around the 230 canopy range.

Take a look at the canopy after you land (unless it's unpacked) If you had a bad landing look feel the canopy material. If it feels like tissue paper It's ragged out & is past it's useful life.

R

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I just did jump 35 the other day and the canopy course I took while in coaching really helped a LOT! It made my pattern a lot more accurate -- No more landing at the edge of the landing zone (Or in the junk pile over there...) taking crosswind landings to avoid crossing the runway (Because I'm not in danger of crossing the runway anymore) or any of the other bad stuff I was doing before I took the course. Flare and landing got a lot better too.

So yeah, if you haven't done it yet, I highly recommend the canopy course.

Also make sure you're flying the right sized canopy for you, and that your brake lines are the right length. If you're on student rental gear, it could be the brake lines are just longer than they should be to make it harder to stall the canopy, so you just have to flare like a... something that flares REALLY HARD... to get everything out of your flare.

If you don't want to do the canopy course after everyone here told you to then at least try to get your landings on video and maybe have one of the coaches that lurk around the DZ take a look at it and give you some pointers.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[RedMarauder 0]

You are going back and forth between a seven and nine cell canopy. The two flare very differently. I was having the same problem not so long ago and found out that seven cells in particular need to be snapped when you flare to get what you want out of it. By that I mean when you go to the first stage of the flare you need to snap the toggles quickly…not a slow motion…a quick one. This should produce the desired reaction…to plane it out. The Sabre not so much. A smooth flare should be fine but the seven cell Sapphire might need a good snap to plane it out. Always talk to an instructor before changing anything you’ve been taught to do and also do some high pulls and practice.
Good Luck and Blue Skies

[theplummeter 14]

Quote

You are going back and forth between a seven and nine cell canopy. The two flare very differently. I was having the same problem not so long ago and found out that seven cells in particular need to be snapped when you flare to get what you want out of it. By that I mean when you go to the first stage of the flare you need to snap the toggles quickly…not a slow motion…a quick one. This should produce the desired reaction…to plane it out. The Sabre not so much. A smooth flare should be fine but the seven cell Sapphire might need a good snap to plane it out. Always talk to an instructor before changing anything you’ve been taught to do and also do some high pulls and practice.
Good Luck and Blue Skies

Sabre, Sabre2, Safire, and Safire2 canopies are all nine cells. It has been my experience (and that of many others with whom I've spoken) that Icarus and NZ Aerosports canopies tend to have a deeper stall and flare point, especially student or demo/rental canopies.

[lookoutbelow 0]

I'm also new, and jump a Sabre 2. What really improved my landings was practicing slow flight up high. And in particular, finding the point early in the toggle range that just started to slow the decent rate, but not so much as to eat up flare potential. Now when I think I'm almost at the point where I should flare, but possibly a moment before, I slow myself down slightly. Not even to stage one level of a two stage flare. Just slowing down enough so that the window of opportunity widens a second or so. Ever since I started doing that, well, I don't fear landings any more.

[dthames 0]

Quote

I'm also new, and jump a Sabre 2. What really improved my landings was practicing slow flight up high. And in particular, finding the point early in the toggle range that just started to slow the decent rate, but not so much as to eat up flare potential. Now when I think I'm almost at the point where I should flare, but possibly a moment before, I slow myself down slightly. Not even to stage one level of a two stage flare. Just slowing down enough so that the window of opportunity widens a second or so. Ever since I started doing that, well, I don't fear landings any more.

I did something very similar on student gear and I agree, that bit of extra time helps.

To have your own canopy (in good condition), repeated practice with the same one, and a canopy that is forgiving makes a huge difference.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[staton23 0]

Thanks so much for all the info! I really think a canopy course would help me out and to really do some practice flares up high to feel it before I land. Thanks again, folks!

[erdnarob 1]

Suggestions:

Start your flare early (25 ft) but very progressively (slow). Look at 45 degrees in front of you and concentrate on being very symetrical with your toggles. According what you see at 45 degrees keep on depressing toggles to get them at hip level only when you are at one foot above the ground.

For the last 10 seconds, don't move your body or turn and :
1) don't move your legs or arms in order to supposedly protect yourself
2) don't anticipate your landing by reaching or extending your legs or hands (ie. land when you are on the ground)
3) keep on flying your canopy even when your are on the ground (toggles symetrical)

Landing is a art and you have to jump and jump and learn from that. I hope those few hints will help.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

I just forgot to tell you. When you jump at a new DZ check the elevation above sea level. High elevation can make you land faster and harder.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Lindenwood 0]

Quote

I'm also new, and jump a Sabre 2. What really improved my landings was practicing slow flight up high. And in particular, finding the point early in the toggle range that just started to slow the decent rate, but not so much as to eat up flare potential. Now when I think I'm almost at the point where I should flare, but possibly a moment before, I slow myself down slightly. Not even to stage one level of a two stage flare. Just slowing down enough so that the window of opportunity widens a second or so. Ever since I started doing that, well, I don't fear landings any more.

I started doing the same thing. I am jumping old busted f111 canopies so I ofted have to jog a few steps, but they have been notably more consistent, or at least more comfortable. I got the idea from hearing an instructor explain the two-stage flare of the Sabre2 shes been renting. It will definitely run out of steam quickly, but beginning to brake at around 12-15 feet up has helped, at least to my rookie eyes.

Weeeee!

[ufk22 32]

The proper technique is not to slow the canopy early. All this does is remove some of the speed that would better be available to convert into lift later.
The best advice I could give is when landing a 9-cell ZP performance canopy (and yes, a Sabre 2 is a performance canopy) you need to think about your landing more like landing an airplane and less like flaring a student canopy. You need to (probably) start your flare a little higher and take just a little more time to get to the "2" position, hold the "2" position and let the canopy fly. If you flair at the proper height, the canopy should plane out into level flight a couple of feet above the ground while you hold the toggles at about your waist. Be patient, keep your feet off the ground and let some of the speed bleed off. Then, as you start to lose that last couple of feet of altitude, finish your flare.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.