Legal to jump base gear from heli?

[potatoman 0]

This after the triple fatal.

When jumping from an aircraft, it is considered a skydive, hence it falls under skydiving rules, which dictates that you must have a reserve.

Doing wingsuit proximity, it is done with a base rig.

Is this then not illegal, or does it matter on the country?

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[Joellercoaster 6]

This is very country-dependent.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[piisfish 135]

Joellercoaster

This is very country-dependent.

exactly.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Andy9o8 0]

potatoman

This after the triple fatal.

When jumping from an aircraft, it is considered a skydive, hence it falls under skydiving rules, which dictates that you must have a reserve.

Doing wingsuit proximity, it is done with a base rig.

Is this then not illegal, or does it matter on the country?

Agreed, very country-dependent.

In the US: you're correct- it's a skydive, so the BASE gear must be supplemented by a reserve; if it is, jumping the gear is probably legal; if it's not, the jump is probably illegal.

[Hellis 0]

You would also need a TSO'd harness?

[theonlyski 3]

Hellis

You would also need a TSO'd harness?

Again, country dependent. I believe the only country that actually has a TSO program is the US. Other countries have some sort of similar process.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Krip 2]

Whats the penalty for the jumpers? Death

I can imagine a defense attorney claiming the the jumpers exited before the pilot reached the legal base exit point.

Buy I'm not a lawyer, a base wingsuit prox jumper, or a pilot. I'm not even a jumper anymore.

Just old.

One Jump Wonder

[D22369 0]

whatever happened to the base rigs with a reserve? I think it was called sorcerer? was it too big to be the cool thing?

just a question that popped into my head while reading this thread

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[riggerrob 561]

theonlyski

***You would also need a TSO'd harness?

Again, country dependent. I believe the only country that actually has a TSO program is the US. Other countries have some sort of similar process.

.............................................................................

A long time ago, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa adopted the same TSO C23 standards as the USA. The current European Joint TSO is pretty much a photo-copy of the American standard, so they can be legally jumped by American citizens out of American-registered airplanes.
That was the standard for testing and manufacturing parachutes.
Whether you can legally jump out of an airplane - without a TSOed parachute - is a separate question. In many countries, the civil aviation authorities know even less about parachutes - than the American Federal Aviation Administration - and care less. As long as civilian skydivers keep the fatality rate low, the civil aviation authorities prefer not to regulate skydiving.

Jumping out of airplanes without reserves is dumb in any country. Do it often enough and you will die. Die too often and the civil aviation authorities will write rules that you cannot understand, much less enjoy.

[riggerrob 561]

Hellis

You would also need a TSO'd harness?

..................................................................................

Yes

[riggerrob 561]

D22369

whatever happened to the base rigs with a reserve? I think it was called sorcerer? was it too big to be the cool thing?

just a question that popped into my head while reading this thread

Roy

...............................................................................

Sorcerer was never TSOed. Mark Hewitt only sold a few Sorcerers and quit making them when he left California about 20 years ago.
About a decade ago, Jump Shack (aka. the Racer factory) tried to revive the concept with their BASEr harness/container. The BASEr is basically a 2-pin BASE container sewn to a certified Racer harness. A (certified) Pop-Top reserve container can be snapped onto the chest to make it legal to jump from American-registered airplanes. Jump Shack never sold very many BASErs. I did not even see a BASEr at the last (2013) PIA Symposium.

The only (legal) other option would be one of those (certified) German BASE harnesses with a (certified) reserve snapped to the chest.

Quick!
How many active skydivers have even SEEN a chest-mounted reserve???? ... Even rarer are active skydivers who have jumped while wearing chest-mounted reserves. My last jump with a chest-mounted reserve was in 1986!
Hah!
Hah!

[Hellis 0]

theonlyski

***You would also need a TSO'd harness?

Again, country dependent. I believe the only country that actually has a TSO program is the US. Other countries have some sort of similar process.

I was refering to Andy´s "In the US...."

[potatoman 0]

By law (and this is in South Africa), you can only jump from a plane when you have a functional reserve, be it chest mounted or not. I have seen the BASEr jumped from a plane, and yes, it must be TSO'd. (Think that is tho only one)

As for the jumper.....The jumper is not the guilty party. It is the pilot. The pilot is in command from the time you board the plane. The pilot will be held responsible when you jump with an outdated reserve, or non TSO'd rig.

Now that is the law. I would like to see a pilot checking everyone's reserve repack date as they board. Kinda impossible. Funny that you only need a private pilots for dropping people.

As for jump height, you can file for a demo, and exit low. That with given permission, but sure as shit you won't get permission for base gear from a chopper.

In which country is it allowed to jump a single canopy rig from a plane? As that goes, in which country can you just hire a plane and exit where you want, without proper auths?

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[riggerrob 561]

***By law (and this is in South Africa) ...

As for the jumper.....The jumper is not the guilty party. It is the pilot. The pilot is in command from the time you board the plane. The pilot will be held responsible when you jump with an outdated reserve, or non TSO'd rig. ...

...................................................................................

That aviation law is based on ancient maritime law. Back when a ship might be away from home port for two to three years, the captain was held responsible for enforcing all the laws of the home country.
In modern times, civil aviation authorities still hold pilots responsible for everything that happens relative to their airplane.
In a few cases, the (USA) FAA has imposed fines on skydivers who did stupid stuff.

[riggerrob 561]

... As for jump height, you can file for a demo, and exit low. ...

....................................................................................

I am having difficulty following your logic, because (in most countries) the standards (e.g. exit altitudes) are the same for exhibition jumps as regular skydives.

[potatoman 0]

If jumping from restricted airspace, it might be required to exit from 1800(got the t-shirt), sometimes even lower, due to some traffic overhead or whatever other reason.

So, exhibition and normal jumping rules differ, at least here.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[pchapman 262]

potatoman

In which country is it allowed to jump a single canopy rig from a plane? As that goes, in which country can you just hire a plane and exit where you want, without proper auths?

Canada!

If you're at a CSPA DZ, you follow CSPA rules. Wear two parachutes. But no TSO is needed (except for official Demos into urban areas - gov't rules).

But elsewhere there's no gov't law about needing 2 parachutes.

I'm not in touch with the BASE community, but I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be more BASE rig wingsuit activity here by Americans. (Although there are differences between North American mountains and the Alps, such as infrastructure in the valleys.)

As for air traffic control, it all depends on the class of airspace whether one can just go jump, or have to broadcast the jump on radio, or have to actually coordinate with ATC.

(@ Riggerrob: Sonic from the Ranch in NY does market the BASEr actively. He's at the Bridge Day gear show every year for example.)

[Di0 1]

I guess this was exactly the niche market that Mirage was trying to cover with their new double parachute BASE system that is TSO'd, introduced a few months ago. I don't remember the name.

A lot of people that want to do proxy flights from a heli would find much more legal ground to do so, if they board the plane with a "legal" rig.

Then again, if WS proximity fliers keep killing themselves at the rate they are, there might not be too much of a market in a few years.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[champu 1]

I don't even want to know how much it cost the producers of Transformers 3 to get the permits / insurance to jump base rigs out of a helicopter over downtown Chicago and fly wingsuits between buildings.

[justme12001 0]

I have a BASE jumper friend that jumps a Baser regularly. So I have seen his chest mounted reserve.

I also have 1 (and only 1) jump on surplus military gear, so I have actually jumped with a chest mounted reserve. I am just glad I didn't have to use it! Landing under the 35 ft round sucked enough, I would really hate to land under a 24 ft conical!

I'm about 230 lbs clothed, so with normal sport gear, I'm around 250 out the door. With the military stuff I was closer to 275 lbs, add that to a shitty PLF and that equals two badly sprained ankles :)

[Hopps 0]

Will be harder to get heli BASE lifts in switzerland:

http://www.srf.ch/news/regional/bern-freiburg-wallis/keine-wingsuit-spruenge-mehr-aus-dem-helikopter

[wolfriverjoe 1,353]

potatoman

By law (and this is in South Africa), you can only jump from a plane when you have a functional reserve, be it chest mounted or not. I have seen the BASEr jumped from a plane, and yes, it must be TSO'd. (Think that is tho only one)

As for the jumper.....The jumper is not the guilty party. It is the pilot. The pilot is in command from the time you board the plane. The pilot will be held responsible when you jump with an outdated reserve, or non TSO'd rig.

Now that is the law. I would like to see a pilot checking everyone's reserve repack date as they board. Kinda impossible. Funny that you only need a private pilots for dropping people.

As for jump height, you can file for a demo, and exit low. That with given permission, but sure as shit you won't get permission for base gear from a chopper.

In which country is it allowed to jump a single canopy rig from a plane? As that goes, in which country can you just hire a plane and exit where you want, without proper auths?

I can only speak of US rules, but jumping an expired reserve could get both the jumper and the pilot in trouble.
The pilot risks his license, but both potentially face fines.

That's why manifest usually checks the reserve card when a jumper checks in. The pilot is trusting that manifest is only letting people with legal gear get on the plane.

And here, you only need a private to drop people too...

Unless they are paying to be on the plane

If you have a buddy who is willing to take you up for free to jump, that's ok.

Pretty much any other situation requires that the pilot hold a commercial license.

And here in the US, it can be legal to jump "anywhere you want", within certain limits.

Proper type of airspace, permission of the landowner where you plan on landing, notification of Air Traffic Control (not permission).
Search the term "Bandit Jump" or "Bandit Demo" for previous discussions.
Some people don't like the term "Bandit" because they are legal, but that's what they are typically called.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[virgin-burner 1]

Hopps

Will be harder to get heli BASE lifts in switzerland:

http://www.srf.ch/news/regional/bern-freiburg-wallis/keine-wingsuit-spruenge-mehr-aus-dem-helikopter

one company will not take wingsuitjumpers anymore until further notice, because of moral reasons..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[potatoman 0]

Wolf, you can still jump out of a plane whilst paying, and the pilot only has a privates lic. You pay the DZ though.

The only rule is that the pilot should not be compensated, and for that matter, they have found a loop hole for that as well.

Sad in a way, but for sure keeps jump cost low.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[nickfrey 0]

Actually chest mount reserves were used in the filming of transformers. Except for the building jumps.