airdvr 201 #1 Posted February 27, 2023 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-10/america-s-tax-code-leaves-black-people-behind-dorothy-brown I'm going to need some help on this one. I don't believe the tax code is fair to many people based on income and assets. As far as I can tell she points out some valid things that could be changed but none of it is specifically targeted at a race. It just struck me as odd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,295 #2 February 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, airdvr said: is specifically targeted at a race. That’s not really the only definition of racist at an institutional level. At an individual, it does take some intent I think, but institutions have rules that were set up by people who may have had a lot of motives. And “associating with people like us, and/or worthy people,” can most definitely have racist consequences. If you have to justify why something with results that affect people differently in a way that’s highly correlated with race, then maybe at least consider that there was some unintentional (or maybe intentional) racism or classism involved. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,819 #3 February 27, 2023 The tax code is certainly biased in favor of the wealthy, since the wealthy have bought and paid for our politicians. The wealthy are overwhelmingly not black. While correlation <> causation, it certainly doesn't pass the smell test. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,691 #4 February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, airdvr said: I'm going to need some help on this one. I don't believe the tax code is fair to many people based on income and assets. As far as I can tell she points out some valid things that could be changed but none of it is specifically targeted at a race. Correct. None of it is targeted at race. However, it is more beneficial to whites than to blacks. Blacks are more likely to be single, for example, and if they’re married, it’s more likely both spouses will be working. This puts them at a disadvantage in our current tax codes. Blacks are more likely to rent than to own - this also puts them at a disadvantage. It's easy to say "well, they should just act like white people then there will be no difference!" And that may be true. But if you have a system where a race has to act like another race to get similar benefits - it points to a system where there are some structural issues that cause whites to be treated better than blacks under the tax code. And while the intent is not racism, the effect is. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 201 #5 February 28, 2023 24 minutes ago, billvon said: Correct. None of it is targeted at race. However, it is more beneficial to whites than to blacks. Sorry Bill, and believe me I know I need to tread lightly here, but I have a problem with you're explanation. Every example you gave applies to all sorts of folks, from all economic and social backgrounds. The tax code deals with them equally, regardless of race. No one is asking anyone to be more white. Now, does the tax code need re-worked? Absolutely. I agree with John when he says it's tilted towards the rich, the majority of whom are not black. But I think it's an issue of money, not race. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,456 #6 February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, airdvr said: ... But I think it's an issue of money, not race. Do you think money issues have nothing to do with race? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,330 #7 February 28, 2023 7 hours ago, airdvr said: Sorry Bill, and believe me I know I need to tread lightly here, but I have a problem with you're explanation. Every example you gave applies to all sorts of folks, from all economic and social backgrounds. The tax code deals with them equally, regardless of race. No one is asking anyone to be more white. Which part of ‘more likely’ are you having trouble with? Is it a complicated concept? It’s like the difference between crack and cocaine. All sorts of folks take either drug, but way more black folks take crack and way more white folks take cocaine, and crack is punished far more heavily. The tax code is unlikely to be as deliberately racist as that, but it is likely that when designing certain tax breaks they’ve looked at what sounds good for white middle class homeowners right now and lacked the imagination to think any further than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,691 #8 February 28, 2023 16 hours ago, airdvr said: Every example you gave applies to all sorts of folks, from all economic and social backgrounds. Right. That's what I said. None of it is targeted at race. However, the EFFECT it has is that it benefits whites more than blacks. Which is what the article was about. Let's take an example from education. Let's say a college has a 100% non-racial-discrimination policy; they admit all races. They also have two lists of first names they use to make hiring decisions. The first list consists of names like Javon, Tyrell, Jamar, Tyree, Jamari, Jaquan, Dashawn, Jerrell etc. This is the "do not admit" list. The second list consists of names like Noah, Liam, Christian, Oliver, Emma, Henry, Sophia etc. This is the "admit" list. Other names are judged by how close they seem to either list, and of course by their competence and test scores. They defend this by saying that in their experience, those first names are linked to how well students will do. Even though this college has a 100% non-racial-discrimination policy, do you think that their policy would RESULT in decisions that are unfair to black people? Quote Now, does the tax code need re-worked? Absolutely. I agree with John when he says it's tilted towards the rich, the majority of whom are not black. But I think it's an issue of money, not race. That was her point; that those decisions (that benefit the rich, the homeowner, the traditional single-earner family, inheritors) are all decisions that were 1) put in place by rich white people and 2) are harmful to people who do not fit those categories, and black people predominantly fall into those categories. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 416 #9 March 2, 2023 (edited) On 2/27/2023 at 5:46 PM, kallend said: The tax code is certainly biased in favor of the wealthy, since the wealthy have bought and paid for our politicians. And that is why….. “High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes. In 2020, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.2 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 22.2 percent of total AGI and paid 42.3 percent of all federal income taxes.” Edited March 2, 2023 by brenthutch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,278 #10 March 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: And that is why….. “High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes. In 2020, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.2 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 22.2 percent of total AGI and paid 42.3 percent of all federal income taxes.” You think high income earners equals wealthy. That's cute. Amazing you supposedly have an MBA. Edited March 2, 2023 by SkyDekker 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites