instructor etiquette

[tred 0]

This is a weird hypothetical question and wont apply to me for a long time if ever. anyway... imagine an AFFI has a close friend who has decided to start skydiving. the AFFI decides he is going to wave his instructor fees and pay for his slots on the plane to help the friend out and just wants to jump with his friend at beginning of his skydiving career. My question is if they decide to do this at a DZ where the AFFI is not necessarily an employee or a full time one, would it be considered rude to be taking potential income from that DZ's instructors.

i ask because i have a friend who is a scuba instructor and runs a fishing/spearfishing charter. he has trained me and taken me on many trips for next to nothing. If i am ever skilled enough to be an AFFI i would like to return the favor (he has already expressed his desire to skydive down the road)

also i understand i have along way to go before i can consider being an AFFI so please don't burn me on that

just curious

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

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would it be considered rude to be taking potential income from that DZ's instructors.

In my opinion YES!

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[NWFlyer 2]

tred

My question is if they decide to do this at a DZ where the AFFI is not necessarily an employee or a full time one, would it be considered rude to be taking potential income from that DZ's instructors.

Not just from the instructors, but also from the dropzone itself. This would be something you'd absolutely have to clear with the DZO and/or head of the instructional program, and there's a decent possibility the answer would be "no."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[tred 0]

guess he will have to pay his dues and get his license
i can always hook him up with some jump tickets or my old gear

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

tred

guess he will have to pay his dues and get his license
i can always hook him up with some jump tickets or my old gear

Or you could do his coach jumps with him for no cost.

Or you could just jump with him once he gets his license.
A lot of newer jumpers complain about it being difficult to get anyone with any experience to jump with them at the beginning.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[pchapman 261]

When instructing at a DZ, you have to play by the DZ rules on instruction.

I can't speak for every DZ situation but this is as I know it:

Want to instruct at all? You tend to have to be on staff or have special arrangements made.
(Some big US dropzones are popular destinations in winter and do expect all sorts of visiting jumpers including other DZ staff and students, so their rules may be more open to outside instructors.)

Instruction at a DZ is normally under the control of the DZ. If a DZ sets a rate of slot + $15 for a particular type of coaching jump, you can't go sneaking around poaching others' newbies and undercutting them by offering slot + $6. Both the DZ and other instructors might not be happy. Things will be more open if one is coaching licensed jumpers, beyond whatever regular program the DZ offers, especially if it is just an occasional thing.

Same goes for other work. If a tandem student would pay $100 for a tandem video, you can't go up to a student and tell him that if he pays you cash, you'll undercut the DZ and cut them out of their take, and do the edit entirely on your own equipment.

DZ's will from time to time offer discounts for special cases. (e.g., "You want to take your sister up for a tandem? If you waive your instructor fee, we'll knock off an extra $50 for the occasinal close family member." )

You may not be able to help your friend out much with actual jump costs, but will be able to help him timewise, to learn the ropes faster. (Just avoiding stepping on instructors' toes when it comes to specific things they teach.)

[SivaGanesha 2]

It's not just a question of etiquette but more that each DZ is likely to have strict rules over when a student can and cannot get on the aircraft to make a jump and which instructors (AFFI's) may or may not jump with students. Waiving those rules will require the permission of the DZO unless you are the DZO. An unknown AFFI and an unknown student can't just hop on an aircraft together at any DZ in the country, no questions asked. On two instructor AFF jumps, waiving the standard DZ rules might require the cooperation of the other AFFI too in addition to the DZO.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[stratostar 5]

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My question is if they decide to do this at a DZ where the AFFI is not necessarily an employee or a full time one, would it be considered rude to be taking potential income from that DZ's instructors.

No it's not rude at all to do that, as long as you set it up with the owner of the dz ahead of time and not just show up. In all cases you will have to be known to the dzo and approved. It used to more common to travel around to other dz's and visit with a student, when prior arrangements were made, however it becoming more and more difficult to do that in some areas, but in other places it is welcomed, like skydive city by those from over seas or out of state. I have taken a number of students there with our gear and stuff and we were allowed to train. I always call ahead and get permission.

It also comes around the other way *(why I say it's not rude) There have been many times I've taken students to dz's, trained a refresher for free and then passed off to the "staff" for them to do the jumps, so they didn't screwed out of 1. a skydive & 2. a pay check for the jumps. YMMV

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 558]

It is important for any instructor to be on the same wavelength as all the other DZ staff and teach local standard operating procedures.
For example, if the DZ teaches all students to fly a left-handed landing pattern, then visiting instructors are compelled to teach left-hand patterns.

[stayhigh 2]

I've seen non-affi taking out first jump student out at a non-uspa dz.

If you go to USPA dz, chances are the dz is going to check for the license before they let anyone on the airplane.

So you have to go to the dz that doesn't check anything and will let you go up.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I suspect you might have trouble finding a DZ that would let you do it all freelance like that, at least in the USA. They usually seem to be pretty hung up on liability issues. Maybe one of the ones that are structured as clubs might be more willing to do something like that.

However, you don't technically need a DZ to skydive. All you need is a willing pilot who knows how to file a NOTAM. Well, that and a plane you can skydive out of. And another AFF instructor for at least 3 jumps. And an extra rig. Sure that would be a huge pain the ass, but it'd probably be kind of fun to get all that crap together.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[stayhigh 2]

There is atleast two non-uspa dz in US, and both run twin otters. East and West coast, there has gotta be couple in the mid-west area.

But you are right about the rig tho. Hard to find a suitable student rig.

It is fun for sure. You end up teaching them way more than average 1st jump course student since they are your friend and all.

You can only do it once or twice and it gets old and you don't wanna do it anymore.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[sammielu 3]

If its just a $ thing to hook a buddy up, you'd be welcome to reimburse your buddy for your jump ticket, or any amount at any dz, and be playing by the rules. If your buddy isn't down with that, you can reimburse me for any amount instead.

[sammielu 3]

Seriously though, think about it in terms of another type of business. If I'm a bartender, I might be able to hook a buddy up at my bar when I'm working, but I can't walk into another bar and give my buddy a free drink unless I bought the drink myself.

[stayhigh 2]

exactly, I've used similar line alot when I used to do tandems.

"Can I bring my own GoPro?"

"No"

"Why not?"

"Can you bring your own beer to a bar?"

Bernie Sanders for President 2016