Firearm salesman of the century

[JoeWeber 2,324]

35 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

In your opinion Joe.  When it comes to a comprehensive review of a type of firearm, I’m going to have to go with Field and Stream.  

That article read more like it was from Guns and Ammo. And to your point, they were reviews of a type of firearm; a type unnecessary for hunting but attractive to those who hunt and also like unnecessary firearms. Sure it's my opinion but so was the article which, more than anything to do with actual hunting, seemed more focused on pandering for subscriptions. 

[brenthutch 388]

11 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Sorry Joe is right here. Sure you can hunt deer if you handload a good bullet. But anything under a .270 is a compromise and you know it.

 

That is just nonsense. A 30-30 has roughly 1000 ft-lbs less energy than the .270 and it is the most successful deer round in history.  But if that is not enough you can go with

https://www.iammo.com/dpms-panther-arms-lr-308-lite-hunter-ar-10-338-federal-19-round-20-semi-automatic-rifle-in-black-rflr338l.html

powerful enough for all N. American game and allows a quick follow up shot without having to cycle a bolt or throw a lever.  (Could come in handy in a close quarters hunt on moose or bear)

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by brenthutch

[Phil1111 913]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

That is just nonsense. A 30-30 has roughly 1000 ft-lbs less energy than the .270 and it is the most successful deer round in history.  But if that is not enough you can go with

https://www.iammo.com/dpms-panther-arms-lr-308-lite-hunter-ar-10-338-federal-19-round-20-semi-automatic-rifle-in-black-rflr338l.html

I get confused by the trajectory of your arguments. You first post that the debate has gone off your original subject. Then post about the 30-30 v .270. Then link a relatively inaccurate $1400 semi-auto based upon military designs. Presumably because its semi-auto and takes high capacity mags.

The fact that the pandemic has driven new gun purchases. Purchases by new gun owners that has been referenced by yourself and others. Yet you keep driving those purchases back to semi-auto rifles with military origins. All of which take high capacity magazines. None of which has seen a new rush of buying. Driven by politics.

Just come out and say you love semi-autos with high capacity mags. That you'll use any straw argument to justify ownership and new purchases of them. Its OK. We'll still love you!

[brenthutch 388]

44 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

I get confused by the trajectory of your arguments. You first post that the debate has gone off your original subject. Then post about the 30-30 v .270. Then link a relatively inaccurate $1400 semi-auto based upon military designs. Presumably because its semi-auto and takes high capacity mags.

The fact that the pandemic has driven new gun purchases. Purchases by new gun owners that has been referenced by yourself and others. Yet you keep driving those purchases back to semi-auto rifles with military origins. All of which take high capacity magazines. None of which has seen a new rush of buying. Driven by politics.

Just come out and say you love semi-autos with high capacity mags. That you'll use any straw argument to justify ownership and new purchases of them. Its OK. We'll still love you!

Sorry, I am just trying to respond to the ever changing arguments against my post.  For example: when I made the claim “no one hunts with a Glock” SkyDekker said “WRONG” and posted a link indicating Ted Nugent used one. I did manage to not go down THAT rabbit hole.  Others? Not so much.  Like your claim the DPMS rifle is relatively inaccurate.  With a stainless steel, heavy profile 20” barrel, full float hand guard and two stage trigger, it is a tack driver.  

Edited December 6, 2020 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,324]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Sorry, I am just trying to respond to the ever changing arguments against my post.  For example: when I made the claim “no one hunts with a Glock” SkyDekker said “WRONG” and posted a link indicating Ted Nugent used one. I did manage to not go down THAT rabbit hole.  Others? Not so much.  Like your claim the DPMS rifle is relatively inaccurate.  With a stainless steel, heavy profile 20” barrel, full float hand guard and two stage trigger, it is a tack driver.  

Don't forget the sand bag rest and spotting scope. You know that a faster round isn't always the best choice when hunting in tight cover, right?

[brenthutch 388]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Don't forget the sand bag rest and spotting scope. You know that a faster round isn't always the best choice when hunting in tight cover, right?

The .338 federal isn’t fast, it is just big.

[JoeWeber 2,324]

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

The .338 federal isn’t fast, it is just big.

Brent, I don't doubt that some AR-15 Scientist will sort out a way to fire German WWII 88MM shells out of an AR-15 but it still won't mean anything. They are dumb guns for hunting and a bad choice for home defense. Look, I respect your knowledge and skills and I don't care if someone like you has a pair of machine pistols with ivory grips and Italian leather holsters. Botton line: you've got the new and abridged second amendment so just enjoy and you've no need to make any justification for that which simply pleases you. We'll just need to have different opinions on the AR-15.

[brenthutch 388]

On 12/5/2020 at 6:51 PM, JoeWeber said:

a bolt action rifle is best, a lever action is second best. 

Joe, I thought you were against guns that were adaptations of military weapons whose sole purpose was to create as much death and destruction in as short of time as technicality feasible.

Edited December 7, 2020 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,324]

35 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Joe, I thought you were against guns that were adaptations of military weapons whose sole purpose was to create as much death and destruction in as short of time as technicality feasible.

Yes. I'm against all guns that were ever used for any purpose even in cartoons. 

[brenthutch 388]

10 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes. I'm against all guns that were ever used for any purpose even in cartoons. 

I’m sure you see how the whole “designed by the military for use on the battlefield” argument just doesn’t hold water.  

[JoeWeber 2,324]

5 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I’m sure you see how the whole “designed by the military for use on the battlefield” argument just doesn’t hold water.  

Correct. But I didn't make it you did. 

[brenthutch 388]

8 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Correct. But I didn't make it you did. 

It is Joe Biden’s argument, watch the video I posted.

Edited December 7, 2020 by brenthutch

[Phil1111 913]

Brents admitted to owning a Ruger RPR before

Which is Ruger's long range and precision, bolt action rifle. Yet he wants the naive to believe the aforementioned semi-autos are also as accurate. They are not in the same class. Wants the naive to believe that semi-autos are good guns for hunting when bolt action rifles are likely 85% or better, the weapon of choice for hunting in America.

Brent doesn't choose to cite the use of Remington's 742, 7400, semi auto hunting rifles.  He cites the AR-15 and derivatives of it. The DPMS isn't available in 30-06, 7mm mag, .300 WM and other popular hunting calibers. Instead the restrictions of those actions and the calipers that they will function with. Are all acceptable as long as they take 20-30 round mags.

[brenthutch 388]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Brents admitted to owning a Ruger RPR before

Which is Ruger's long range and precision, bolt action rifle. Yet he wants the naive to believe the aforementioned semi-autos are also as accurate. They are not in the same class. Wants the naive to believe that semi-autos are good guns for hunting when bolt action rifles are likely 85% or better, the weapon of choice for hunting in America.

You simply don’t know what you are talking about.  
https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/05/25/bolt-rifle-vs-semi-auto-rifle/

AR hitting steel at 1500 yards 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-Be-R6UA8

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by brenthutch

[gowlerk 1,923]

54 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Brents admitted to owning a Ruger RPR before

 

What a thing of beauty. Will it wipe out virii?

[brenthutch 388]

12 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

What a thing of beauty. Will it wipe out virii?

Mine is prettier 

[gowlerk 1,923]

7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Mine is prettier 

There, I gave you an excuse to pull it out, set it up, and take picture. You're welcome.

[Phil1111 913]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

You simply don’t know what you are talking about.  
https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/05/25/bolt-rifle-vs-semi-auto-rifle/

AR hitting steel at 1500 yards 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-Be-R6UA8

 

Well clearly the Marines are a bunch of idiots. The army fools.

From your story: "rifles from Ruger, Mossberg, Tikka, Savage and others, and they all produced groups between 0.3 and 0.5 inches at 100 yards using factory match ammunition. None were custom or cost more than $2,000, and yet they could hold 1 MOA out to 1,300 yards or even a mile with proper ammunition." from your story yet "With a capable shooter, many factory ARs will hold the “1 inch at 100 yards” standard using match-grade ammunition. " So 1/2 as accurate for the same cost and no gunsmithing.

The British special forces and the Russian ones using the same bolt rifle!. Dummies!

You should tell David Tubb and Randy Wise that they are using the wrong actions.

"2019 NRA ELR Nationals at Camp Atterbury, there were many impressive displays of Extreme Long Range marksmanship, but none better than Randy Wise’s remarkable three-shot string at 2158 yards that set a new ELR Central world record. Randy made a COLD BORE HIT and two follow-up hits on a steel target at 2158 yards. Remarkably, Randy set the new ELR record using a stock Savage action and Savage factory barrel chambered for the .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge."

I don't think they have chambered the AR in .338 LM?

 

[brenthutch 388]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

Well clearly the Marines are a bunch of idiots. The army fools.

From your story: "rifles from Ruger, Mossberg, Tikka, Savage and others, and they all produced groups between 0.3 and 0.5 inches at 100 yards using factory match ammunition. None were custom or cost more than $2,000, and yet they could hold 1 MOA out to 1,300 yards or even a mile with proper ammunition." from your story yet "With a capable shooter, many factory ARs will hold the “1 inch at 100 yards” standard using match-grade ammunition. " So 1/2 as accurate for the same cost and no gunsmithing.

I don't think they have chambered the AR in .338 LM

Unless you are hunting from a bench at 1000 yards there is no practical difference.  A factory AR can hit a bagel from 500 yards, more than adequate for hunting.  To call that inaccurate just reveals your ignorance. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System

“The troops rated the weapon very highly, noting the quality of the weapon and its semi-automatic capabilities compared to the bolt-action M24. The United States Marine Corps will also be adopting the M110”

your .338 Lapua in an AR platform 

 

BTW I never claimed ARs were more accurate than bolt guns

 

 

[brenthutch 388]

https://impact601.com/news/events-of-2020-have-led-to-ammo-and-gun-shortage/article_0a97a57c-34b1-11eb-bf4c-6ba000cfcb5b.html

“Backorders this year will lead to a shortage of guns and ammo in 2021 as well. Federal Ammunition, one of the nation’s biggest dealers, has well over one billion dollars in backorders and is no longer accepting any more orders for 2021.”

 

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,061]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

https://impact601.com/news/events-of-2020-have-led-to-ammo-and-gun-shortage/article_0a97a57c-34b1-11eb-bf4c-6ba000cfcb5b.html

“Backorders this year will lead to a shortage of guns and ammo in 2021 as well. Federal Ammunition, one of the nation’s biggest dealers, has well over one billion dollars in backorders and is no longer accepting any more orders for 2021.”

 

 

Hi Brent,

Fear does that sort of thing.  Toilet paper, anyone?

Jerry Baumchen

[brenthutch 388]

24 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Brent,

Fear does that sort of thing.  Toilet paper, anyone?

Jerry Baumchen

I agree Jerry.

The specter of the impending Biden administration (and possible Democrat control of both houses) has struck fear in the hearts of many in the gun owning public.  They are just talking appropriate steps to protect their interests in the unlikely event Biden will keep his word and fulfill his campaign promises.  Unlike the irrational run on toilet paper this one is based in the President Elect’s own words.

[Phil1111 913]

On 12/7/2020 at 2:03 PM, brenthutch said:

Unless you are hunting from a bench at 1000 yards there is no practical difference.  A factory AR can hit a bagel from 500 yards, more than adequate for hunting.  To call that inaccurate just reveals your ignorance.

your .338 Lapua in an AR platform ...

BTW I never claimed ARs were more accurate than bolt guns....

 

I'll tell you what. Don't call me ignorant and i won't call you ignorant.

The AR is a short action cartridge. The 7.62 is a medium length cartridge and a 30-06. .300 WM is a long/standard length actions. An AR action cannot chamber a 7.62/ .308 length round and will certainly not chamber a .338 LM.

You continue to mix custom and custom gunsmithed rifles with standard rifles in a failed attempt to make a point. You did this for a year in your climate change thread and you insist on doing it here. If a mil spec M4 is a standard AR and its not. Its designed to shoot 2 MOA with mil spec ammunition. Which is 10 inches at 500 yards. A bagel is about 5" wide.

You yourself quoted a article to make you point about accuracy.Between semi auto and bolt action rifles. If you can't be bothered to read your own quoted articles. Can't endorse or support whats represented within them. Why do you quote them? Furthermore you prefaced your link with the statement "You simply don’t know what you are talking about." 

I wasn't going to respond to your ignorance and insults but then you went and did it once again. So I'll quote from the latest story you bring forth to support your thread.

Quote from YOUR story"

Gun and ammo sales in the U.S. hit a record high in 2020 — and the crazy year is not done yet.

The record-setting highs in 2020, set for various reasons, namely COVID-19 and the lockdowns that followed, have led to a gun and ammo shortage.

“We saw it coming earlier in the year,” said Gold Mine Pawn and Gun owner Price Cook. “Once the lockdown went into effect in March, it started. We were selling more guns and ammo to people who never brought guns before. It has just continued and continued and continued. Every time something happens, everyone comes in a buys a little more.”

The lack of production due to lockdowns and social distancing protocols have made the shortage of guns and ammo worst."

You can move your goalposts again and once again, but your supporting arguments have more holes than a Kansas gopher town.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Phil1111

[JerryBaumchen 1,061]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

I agree Jerry.

The specter of the impending Biden administration (and possible Democrat control of both houses) has struck fear in the hearts of many in the gun owning public.  They are just talking appropriate steps to protect their interests in the unlikely event Biden will keep his word and fulfill his campaign promises.  Unlike the irrational run on toilet paper this one is based in the President Elect’s own words.

Hi Bent,

IMO it is just as irrational.

One of the dumbest things I have ever heard in my life goes like this:  'I have my guns to protect my family & me from the government.'

Now, just who has the most guns & the biggest guns?  It sure ain't Joe Citizen.

Jerry Baumchen

Re:  ' in the President Elect’s own words.'

Horsepuckey!!!!!!

 

[brenthutch 388]

39 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The AR is a short action cartridge. The 7.62 is a medium length cartridge and a 30-06. .300 WM is a long/standard length actions. An AR action cannot chamber a 7.62/ .308 length round and will certainly not chamber a .338 LM.

You continue to mix custom and custom gunsmithed rifles with standard rifles in a failed attempt to make a point. You did this for a year in your climate change thread and you insist on doing it here. If a mil spec M4 is a standard AR and its not. Its designed to shoot 2 MOA with mil spec ammunition. Which is 10 inches at 500 yards. A bagel is about 5" wide.

First of all the AR is not a cartridge, if you don’t wish to be called uninformed, it would help to have a grasp on the basics.

The criteria for a mil spec M4 are DIFFERENT than a commercial AR.  Here is a factory AR, for less than $900, shooting factory ammunition and capable of shooting sub MOA groups.  No gunsmithing, no hand loads. (sub MOA = toasting a bagel at 500 yards)
 https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/review-ruger-ar-556-mpr/327219

You seem to be making the claim that the AR is not a suitable hunting platform as it is not available in calibers powerful enough or capable of accuracy precise enough for the task.  I think I have proven, beyond a doubt, that you are incorrect on both accounts.