Brexit and Trumpism

[rifleman 61]

5 hours ago, ryoder said:

The debates in Parliament are getting very strange:

That's the cheap, substandard speech to text translation subtitling software that the BBC are using nowadays. The frog faced git in the glasses actually said "that man".

[gowlerk 1,912]

On 1/16/2019 at 7:25 AM, kallend said:

Brexit and Trumpism:

Two symptoms of the same disease; an inability of low information voters to recognize liars and con-artists.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

 

The main thing they have in common is that they are driven by fear of immigrants who are seen as not ever going to assimilate. This is a legitimate fear that needs to be dealt with. You can not just wish it away.

[jakee 1,254]

58 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

 

The main thing they have in common is that they are driven by fear of immigrants who are seen as not ever going to assimilate. This is a legitimate fear that needs to be dealt with. You can not just wish it away.

Well, it's a fear that has a small amount of legitimacy, then overinflated with xenophobia, racism and lies.

 

For instance in a positively Trumpian move, here's Boris Johnson being caught flat out lying about things he didn't just say but actually wrote down in black and white during the referendum. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46926119

 

(If Rush genuinely dislikes the 'political elite' he should be all over this. An overprivileged Eton toff who was a leading light of austerity politics convincing ordinary people that it's actually the Turk's fault they don't have as much money as they used to. Underneath the affable, buffoonish act old BoJo really is a despicable man, IMO.)

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

 

The main thing they have in common is that they are driven by fear of immigrants who are seen as not ever going to assimilate. This is a legitimate fear that needs to be dealt with. You can not just wish it away.

While I agree this is a legitimate fear, it's also one that has been common in America since the 1600's.  The swarthy Germans won't assimilate.  Irish are all drunks - and need not apply.  Whites only.  Italians are all into organized crime.  Now it's Muslims and Mexicans.  In 30 years it will be the Chinese or the Canadians, and if you said "but what about the Mexicans coming across the border?" people will look at you like you're crazy (or more likely old and out of it.)

So what to do?  Support people who get us past the fear, or support those who manipulate us with it?

[gowlerk 1,912]

I would say that it is far more legitimate in Britain than in America. The big ocean is seeing to that. People are concerned that societal values could be changed. Ironically it is mostly conservatives who fear this change the most. I say ironically because the people they fear are quite conservative themselves. The people who fear immigrant crime really don't understand who immigrants are or what brings them here. They certainly don't come to fill up the jails.

[ryoder 1,384]

[ryoder 1,384]

NYT opinion: The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/sunday/brexit-ireland-empire.html

[jakee 1,254]

34 minutes ago, ryoder said:

NYT opinion: The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/sunday/brexit-ireland-empire.html

Very good.

 

Ironically one of the moves of the current Conservative Chumocracy (excellent word) has been to rewrite the History curriculum to emphasise the success and glory of the British Empire 

[rifleman 61]

On 1/18/2019 at 10:48 PM, gowlerk said:

I would say that it is far more legitimate in Britain than in America. The big ocean is seeing to that. People are concerned that societal values could be changed. Ironically it is mostly conservatives who fear this change the most. I say ironically because the people they fear are quite conservative themselves. The people who fear immigrant crime really don't understand who immigrants are or what brings them here. They certainly don't come to fill up the jails.

Part of the problem in the UK is caused by the deliberate conflation of the terms "refugee" and "immigrant". Immigrants, including those Brits currently living and working in Spain (particularly Benidorm) generally move legally to the foreign country, often having a job waiting for them when they arrive (eg: Chinese workers arriving in the US to work in laundries and Chinese restaurants). 

Refugees on the other hand are defined as "someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries."

The vast majority of people attempting to reach the UK are people displaced by UK aided military action in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq and Yemen. If we insist on exporting weapons to known human rights abusing regimes, we shouldn't complain about importing the end product - refugees.

 

[ryoder 1,384]

AP: May Day: UK Parliament rejects prime minister’s Brexit deal

https://www.apnews.com/5f005051a0c24c90ba088875033ad746

"Brexit is like Pompei, if Pompei had voted for the volcano."

-- John Oliver