Some thoughts on UK Gun Law [ON TOPIC]

[rifleman 61]

Last night I received a PM from a member on here under the title "UK Gun Laws" which posed the question:

"What stops someone that has met the same requirements you have from going out and shooting people in the UK?"

This caused me to go away and have a long think about it and this post is the result.

Here in the UK we had two mass shootings which attracted widespread public and media attention. The first in Hungerford in 1987, left 16 dead (including a police officer) and 15 wounded survivors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

The second, in 1996, took place in a school in Dunblane where the asssailant shot and killed 16 children and one teacher before killing himself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

The result of these two shootings and the subsequent legislation meant that a shooter in the UK had restrictions placed on the weapons available to them.

Shotguns - any calibre, any action but limited to a maximum of three rounds (1 breech, 2 magazine)

Pistols - banned unless they were permanently converted to long barrel and fixed shoulder stock/wrist brace/counterweight with proof house certificate.

Semi-automatic rifles - Basically, to paraphrase Henry Ford, "You can have any type of SAR you like (H&K MP5, HK416, AR-15, Uzi) etc so long as it's chambered for .22LR rimfire ammunition."

Bolt action rifles - Any calibre, up to and including .50 calibre, providing you have access to an approved range capable of handling it and around £2,300 for the rifle.

After market supressors are legal and in some cases desirable.

In order to acquire a licence to purchase firearms and ammunition you firstly have demonstrate good reason to possess said firearms (self-defence is not considered good reason in the UK) and in most cases this is shown by joining a multi-discipline shooting club. You have to pay club membership and undergo training with an instructor (Mine is currently £225 pa + range fees).

Once the range staff are happy that you're a regular and safe shooter, they will assist you in applying for a firearms/shotgun certificate (FAC).

The local firearms officer will visit by appointment and check that the required security for any firearms is properly installed.

When you submit your application to the local police force you MUST declare any criminal convictions or official police cautions including speeding offences.

You are required to give the names, addresses and details of referees who will give a statement and attest to your suitability to possess firearms (you require one referee for a shotgun or two for firearms) and there are restrictions on who these referees can be.

There is a list of notifiable medical conditions in the notes attached to the application form, which include:

•Acute Stress Reaction or an acute reaction to the stress caused by a trauma
•Suicidal thoughts or self harm
•Depression or anxiety
•Dementia
•Mania, bipolar disorder or a psychotic illness
•A personality disorder
•A neurological condition: for example, Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson’s or Huntington’sdiseases, or epilepsy
•Alcohol or drug abuse
•Any other mental or physical condition which might affect your safe possession of a firearm or shotgun

You also sign a statement giving permission for the police to contact your doctor/specialist and allow the doctor to disclose your medical history. You are required to give details of any practice that you have been registered with in the preceding 10 years.

In the event of a successful application the doctor is instructed to place a coded marker on your medical file to the effect that the police must be notified if you are diagnosed with any condition listed in the notes allowing the police to re-examine their decision to issue a FAC.

About 8 years ago, I was diagnosed as having clinical depression caused by PTSD. My doctor contacted the police and so did I, with the result that I voluntarily transferred my weapons to my parent's address (240 miles away) as a temporary addition to their FAC while I received treatment. Two years of treatment followed by another two years off medication and with no relapses meant that I was able to go and collect my guns from my parents.

When your certificate has been awarded, any purchases of firearms and ammunition will be logged by the firearms dealer and notified to the police. The FAC holder is also required to tell the police when he acquires a new firearm giving them details as to make, type, calibre and serial number. Disposals are also required to be notified to the police. The seller must inform the police of the details of the firearm and the details of the buyer (either their FAC details or their registered firearms dealer [RFD] number). FAC's have the holder's photograph printed on them.

You are also required as part of the application process to indicate the average amount of ammunition you will hold at your home address - the police understand that the amount may fluctuate depending on purchases and usage. I currently hold an average of 200 rounds of .22LR and .308 plus 50 shotgun cartidges. I have extra in storage at the range but I keep a small amount to hand in case I go out for rabbit or pigeon.

In answer to the original question, other than the fact that the process itself is time consuming (It took me nearly 6 months to get my first firearm) and expensive, there isn't anything to prevent someone from going on a shooting spree. The fact that we can't wander into somewhere like Walmart and purchase a centrefire AR-15 with just a driving licence is the price that UK shooters pay for the insanity of two lunatics. It means that we tend to view the ownership of firearms as a privilege, not a god-given right and we fully understand that the privilege we have may be removed from us at any time. We understand that if another mass shooting were to happen then we might face further restrictions on the types of firearms we can own and we're prepared to negotiate and state our case if it occurs.

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[Phil1111 911]

Thats a good example of the type of medical issues that need to be addressed in order to prevent mass shooting incidents.

None of them will be of concern to criminals in possession of guns.But to date most run of the mill criminals use guns to effect robberies, not shoot up schools. Those restrictions are similar to Australia and more restrictive than Canada.

Whats important to realize is the Colorado, recent Florida and the Sandy Hook events. Would have had substantive bars to those shooters ever getting near a gun. Let alone a AR-15. Using UK or Australian type regulations.

IMO, for the US, thats 50 years and about a 1/2 million homicides by guns away.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

Those restrictions are similar to Australia, but less restrictive than Canada.

I beg to differ. Perhaps you misspoke. I don't know about the Australian restrictions. But the ones in Canada are far less onerous than the ones listed here in the UK. The UK ones are pretty draconian compared to ours. Any government that tried to impose them here would lose a lot of votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Phil1111 911]

gowlerk

Quote

Those restrictions are similar to Australia, but less restrictive than Canada.

I beg to differ. Perhaps you misspoke. I don't know about the Australian restrictions. But the ones in Canada are far less onerous than the ones listed here in the UK. The UK ones are pretty draconian compared to ours. Any government that tried to impose them here would lose a lot of votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada

Quite right. In Canada there are references required for acquisition, safety training required. No inspections of personal storage, AR-15's more or less, permitted.

The requirement of medical professionals to be informed and to inform the state. Of possible conditions related to firearm ownership is a BIG one. It would be a very difficult sell in the US. With all sorts of constitutional issues.

[Stumpy 256]

I suspect NZ is similar to Canada. You have to pass a safety course and police check, have a firearms assessor come round your house and check your storage arrangements, and then you are limited to the sorts of things you can buy. There is a higher class licence where you can get things like AR15 style rifles with pistol grips and so on, but that IS much harder to get.

My Howa 1500 in .308 was perfect for deer.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[mr2mk1g 10]

And when doing a background check they genuinely are looking into you beyond simply a check that you've not got any criminal convictions.

When I got a licence the local firearms officer came to visit my house after I had previously met and been interviewed by him when I went in to see him at the police station. He asked me if I had ever been to [town just down the road from me].

"Why yes, of course officer" [it's a seaside town close to the city where I live - pretty much everyone in the city will have been there at some point]

"Well, we had a report from someone named [your name] of a disturbance outside of their house in [seaside town]"

"Not me officer, must simply be someone with the same name - I've never lived there or even stayed the night there - you have my addresses for the past 10 years - but I have visited a few times to go to the beach and the like... besides, surely that was simply someone reporting a crime rather than a report about them?"

"We have to check these things out and a report of a disturbance outside your house could be linked with or an indication of all sorts of things".

Well he went away and a few weeks later my licence came through so I can only assume everything checked out to his satisfaction. It was a bit of a surprise however that such a seemingly inconsequential report had been found and considered when looking into me.