Newbies jumping together.

[Speer 0]

Clark,

I also jump Otay, and almost exclusively during the week. While there are more than a few "up jumpers" during the week, there are just not as many chances to jump with others who are not students.

Not sure if we've crossed paths, but if we do, I'd be glad to jump with you... I'm in pretty much the same boat as you, most of my jumps being solo. I've been offered slots in 3 and 4 ways with other NGs at Otay, but have declined due to MY lack of experience, and not wanting to complicate further a dive already replete with inexperience. I have gladly taken up the offer to do 2 ways with other noobs, some of whom had a lot of RW experience for their jump numbers. So hang in there, opportunities will come up.

I'll be at Otay this week if at all possible (Tue or Thur most likely). I'm one of the older farts, shouldn't be too hard to spot. Look forward to jumping with you.

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[somethinelse 0]

Well Said, Billvon...

I've been really getting discouraged because of all the stuff I don't YET know how to do,
or that I haven't perfected...
But the more experienced jumpers tell me some of the stuff I want to do "just so" before I get my A
can take dozens, or many, jumps to get just right.

I agree you should be safe to jump SOLO
and safe for other jumpers TO BE AROUND YOU when you jump...
But new A license holders gotta realize, you do have a long way to go, in skills and abilities
and experienced jumpers got lots to offer,
IF you're willing to learn from then & with them.
& IT IS SAFER than JUST sticking with other newbies.

YA KNOW?

[dgskydive 0]

Just saw this post.

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AndyMan> Too bad you don't jump here dude, you seem like a somebody I could learn alot from, but of all the DZs I've been to, Perris was the worst in terms of snubbing and no teaching (without paying). I would always pay for someone's ticket if they agreed to coach me. Move to SoCal and start a trend of altruism.

Perris is not a bad place and it is not hard to find someone to jump with. All youhave to do is go up to the manifest window and ask for a load organizer. They will find you one. There are always at least 2 or 3 RW organizers at the DZ on the weekend. Weekdays aer a bit slower sometimes so they mat only have 1 or 2.

I can almost bet you didn't ask manifest if there was an organizer available. Darcy is right about the free 2 way skills camps. I worked with Mj this weekend with a few people. People that usually feel like you did (snubbed) usually only have been to the DZ once maybe twice and nobody knows you. It is hard to trust a new person to jump with if you don't even know the person. Come out hang at the bar a few nights make friends and watch how fast you are aksed on loads, unless you are just plain ol' scary in the air.

As far as free coaching. It is available. I work with people all the time in the tunnel and the air that don't pay me a dime they don't even have to cover slot.

At the same time though, people pay money to get that coaches rating, they have spent a lot of money to get all the jumps they have to get the experiance they have. They deserve to get paid for coaching. It is not easy to coach someone. It is hard work in most cases. Coaches have spent a lot of money and time getting good at there craft. They have families and bills to pay just like the rest of us. For these people this is their lively hood. The PPP coaches at PErris are some of the best and most experienced coaches in the world. They will not and should not devalue themselves.

I remember the first time I jumped at PErris over 10 years ago. I waled up to the DZ and didn't know a soul. I went up and did a solo. The next jump I manifested again and asked if they had anyone else jumping solo that might want to do a 2 way. Next thing I know I am on a 3 way and the jumps kept coming from there.

I have seen the term Skygod thrown around in this thread. Just because someone has more jumps and doesn't want to jump with a new jumper doesn't make them a Skygod. Like Jan said people plan there weekends they have groups of FRIENDS they jump with. Come out and plan on making friends then see how fast those "Skygods" become an open book full of information they will share with you.

Don't be cocky. Nothing turns off an experienced jumper more then hearing a new jumper talk about how they have it all figured out and they are different then others as far as skill goes.

I'll tell ya a story about a guy that feels like you do about Skygods. I was starting a 4-way team this year. I was looking for new jumpers with less then 100 jumps that wanted to do 4 way. I hadn't done any in years (at least nothing more then a fun 4 way). I wanted take 3 new jumpers and see how well we could do and how much they could progress. I didn't care about talent either. I wanted people that where williing to learn and get better. That is all I was looking for. Not to much to ask right? I had the team 3/4's of the way built. One last guy was all we needed. There was a new jumper that fit the bill. At least that is what he said he wanted (to get better and learn). SO we had him come tryout for the team.

All we wanted was to see how he responded to coaching. Right off the bat he started rolling his eyes at things that he was being told to do. He knew it all, after all he had graduated from AFF and he knew how to turn and take a grip and track away and pull right? WHy should he be told to make eye contact? WHy should he be told to stop before taking a grip? He was a Skygod! HE knew it all and didn't know shit.

This is what can lead to experienced jumpers not wanting to jump with new jumpers. Granted he was the only one out of the 3 that acted that way. The other two kept there mouths shut and soaked up information like sponges. They listened and watched and asked quetions. They became friends with people and became a "part" of the DZ. That is what got them on loads. they got the reputaioin as two guys that are getting better and realy trying. Everyone has bent over to help those two guys. Be one of those guys. Dont' be the first guy that says he wants to get better and jump with people but then is to cool to be taught anything else.

Once again this is not an attack on you. I am just ranting a it as well.

I think for a new jumper it is about your additude. People only want to jump with people they like and trust. That takes awhile for that to happen.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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But new A license holders gotta realize, you do have a long way to go, in skills and abilities
and experienced jumpers got lots to offer,
IF you're willing to learn from then & with them.
& IT IS SAFER than JUST sticking with other newbies

Good addituded. It will get you far. Ask question listen and learn. MAKE FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dom

[syntax 0]

In Australia we need to complete b- rel 6 to do 2 ways with similarly experienced jumpers.

------------------------------------skydiving...the grounds the limit!

[bigbearfng 16]

Ya, what Dom said above re: Perris! I've always just asked manifest if anyone else is belly flyin-even on a slow mid week day with no LO, they'll hook ya up with another solo jumper, or even some smaller gruops. Rarely have I jumped more than one solo for the day before putting together at least a 2-way. Even gotten advice and free video for me and another newb!
And I always offer the "old hand" a free jump ticket-usually refused unless I insist! BTW Dom, thanks for the advice on helmets....I bought the Oxy A3 and jumped it last week for the first time-I like!

[somethinelse 0]

Thank You!

I am...But all that I see and soak up can be overwhelming...It's like learning a new language, especially when I haven't done it or experienced it yet.

I love the folks at my dz, and they are taking me under their wings, so far so good, and they do encourage me too...

Gonna be doing coaching jumps really soon.

GOTTA LEARN LOTS MORE ABOUT:
Precisely flying my body in the air,
getting stable from lots of differing positions,
and canopy skills.

Precision & RW are my first priority,
LATER maybe freestyle/freeflying!
BUT FOR NOW,
the discriptions of sensations felt
during freeflying sound pretty intimidating
to me at this point anyways!
So THAT is NOT something that I think will be any time SOON!

[FlyinTiki 0]

I participated in a 3-way hybrid jump with 2 other people that have the same, or close to the same amount of jumps as myself (not many). Also, I've done a few 2-ways and a couple 4-ways with people close to my experience level (which isn't much). I'd never heard of two newbies not bein able to jump together. Maybe me and my friends are being a little careless, but it really doesn't seem like it. I feel comfortable, so do they. Everything has been successful. Good luck to ya.

They can't catch us. We're on a mission from God.

[linny 0]

Well put Dom...

[tbrown 26]

Nothing wrong with newbies jumping together, but keep it small, like no more than 3 or 4. In the old days that was basically how you learned RW (huh ? That's a term used in the old days for formation flying on your belly...). We'd just sorta flail around in 2, 3, and 4 ways until we'd eventually start getting it right, usually by the end of summer and just before the first snowfall.

Keeping it small will allow you to work on the basics, on your skills. Especially if you're jumping with a steady friend or friends. You'll be frustrated with poor results if there are more people than that (you're going to have to deal with some frustration as it is, regardless, but that's part of learning).

The other huge consideration is safety. I'm still remembering a 6 way load back 25 years ago. I wasn't there that day, but knew all six people involved. Only one of them had over 100 jumps. On the face of it, they really shouldn't have gone as a 6 way, two 3 ways would've been safer and might've prevented what happened. One of the newbies dumped underneath somebody else. The guy who dumped survived with massive bruising all over his body. The freefaller who was dumped on went in without a pull (probably knocked out & we didn't use AADs in those days). It was a bad day and it coulda shoulda been prevented with a little more common sense.

Be safe, have fun, try to stick with the same friends so you can learn faster and always welcome experienced coaching any way you can get it.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[algboy 0]

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I've been meeting people left and right at Eloy. Just pick someone that was making a solo on one of your loads and introduce yourself later. I'm there on mondays so it seems the other people are looking for monday jumpers. Most all that I have met are very "nice" to me the newbie. I'm just dissapointed that it may be so long befor the wife and I can do our own 2-ways together.

James

I gotta second that--big time! I was at the Customer Appreciation Boogie at Eloy this past weekend--what a thrill!

Saturday, I did a fun recurrency jump out of the SkyVan with Chris, retired to the Bent Prop to decompress, met a couple of great guys (Jerry and Jim) who heard that I was a new "A" interested in doing RW . . . short story long, they basically said, "Hell, we jump with newbies all the time. See you tomorrow morning."

True to their word, early Sunday morning I met Jerry, Jim, Tom, Doc, Steve, Ken, Fred, Bruce and others who took me on two 4-ways, a 3-way and, finally, a 5-way WITH video (my first!).

It was like going from riding bicycles to test-riding someone's Harley. WOW!!!

On the down side, it was a reality check as I got comments like: "you need to relax, your arms are out too far, you're backsliding, you didn't go anywhere on that track, you took too long in your track before deploying, you need to keep eye contact, etc . . . "

On the plus side, I felt honored to be part of the Eloy fun jumpers for the first time in my jump career.

Another plus: had five easy standups under my Nav 260 in light winds. Hoo-ahh!

Eloy rocks! Just be sociable, humble, adventerous and . . . brave.

“Keep your elbow up!"

[nikyboy 0]

in australia at my dz the dzo did not allow me and my brother to jump to gether until we were about bit over half way through our b licence training which you can technically get to in about 25-30 jumps, but me and my bro took till about 35, it pretty much means we can TRACK away pretty confidently. i think if you go to your dzo with a safe plan of attack for your rw 2 ways they will be pleased, such as docking a few point and a high break off alt. like 5-6. my advice start at your local dz with a dzo who knows your ability, and do some 2 ways with another local newbie and put them down in your log book to show other dzo's. and maybe just maybe they will let u jump.
peace out
stay safe

[wildfan75 1]

Wow! I feel really really lucky. I just out of Skydive Wissota and just got my A license last weekend. I never once have had trouble finding someone to jump with me. I did three 4 ways as a student, with jumpers ranging in jump count from 300 to 13,000, and everytime they came up to me and said, "Ok, you're jumping with us and this is what we're doing". I use these opportunties to learn all I can, and they see it as an opportunity to help train someone who eventually can pull off some really good 4 or 8 ways, and someone who will eventually help and jump with future students (we have a huge "pay it forward" environment).

If you're friend is coming to visit, the issue could be that the DZO has no idea the skill set of your friend. Just like there are good licensed drivers and drivers that have no business on the road but have a license, I think there are many different levels of jumpers with the same number of jumps. Why not get your friend to jump with one of the instructors, DZO or staff, prove that you and he/she can jump safely together?

Just my two cents but remember, I'm a noob, just off student status, and owe an incredible amount of beer.

[Fast 0]

Quote

Wow! I feel really really lucky. I just out of Skydive Wissota and just got my A license last weekend. I never once have had trouble finding someone to jump with me. I did three 4 ways as a student, with jumpers ranging in jump count from 300 to 13,000, and everytime they came up to me and said, "Ok, you're jumping with us and this is what we're doing". I use these opportunties to learn all I can, and they see it as an opportunity to help train someone who eventually can pull off some really good 4 or 8 ways, and someone who will eventually help and jump with future students (we have a huge "pay it forward" environment).

If you're friend is coming to visit, the issue could be that the DZO has no idea the skill set of your friend. Just like there are good licensed drivers and drivers that have no business on the road but have a license, I think there are many different levels of jumpers with the same number of jumps. Why not get your friend to jump with one of the instructors, DZO or staff, prove that you and he/she can jump safely together?

Just my two cents but remember, I'm a noob, just off student status, and owe an incredible amount of beer.

I may have mentioned this before but.... Skydive Wissota is a cool ass dropzone. See you in October for p-toss.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[mjosparky 3]

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In this instance, what could an experienced jumper possibly have done if they had collided on opening? The experienced jumper would also have tracked away and would be of no use at all.

You got a D lic. and you can't figure this out. There are only 2 jumpers on a 2 way. The experienced jumper should have been able to track far enough where a new jumper could not back slide into him during deployment.

If it were a 3 way with 1 experienced jumper, it would be on experienced jumper to emphasize separation during the dirt dive and maybe raise break off to allow for more separation time.

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Seems to work well, although we just screw up all the RW jumps together anyway!

And you think that works well, thats how people get killed. There are no winners when the blind lead the blind.

And in case you are wondering, I have been known to jump with “newbies” once in awhile and on my dime.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[bob.dino 0]

Post date: 2004.

I can personally vouch for Nic. She did over 160 jumps with me last year and didn't let me kill her even once . She's no fun .

[mjosparky 3]

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Post date: 2004.

I can personally vouch for Nic. She did over 160 jumps with me last year and didn't let me kill her even once . She's no fun .

There was a guy named Tom Piras the was killed by newbie on a 2 way. He had over 10,000 jumps and was a world champion. Two newbie on a 2 way is not the best approach to learning.

Was it her that kept you out of trouble or you that kept her out of trouble?

Only kidding my friend.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[peckerhead 0]

My how things have changed.

When I was a young jumper I was doing RW with the "experienced" jumpers and not learning too much. Because the more experienced jumper will do all the flying.

Even if they don't mean it the more experienced flyer will come to you.

One day when I had about 50 jumps this old sage Jumpmaster came up to me and said I should start doing two ways with somebody that had the same number of jumps that I had. That way you will actually LEARN something.

Me and my buddy made about 20 jumps together and we got so much better in a short period of time.

After that experience I got so much more confident jumping with the mega jump guys. And, I learned to fly.

This board is full of bad advice.