Your Modern Sporting pistol could be illegal.

[Anvilbrother 0]

No to mention standard m193 ammo is so fast it defeats all but the highest rated armor, making it basically armor piercing for anything a cop wears on a day to day basis.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[BartsDaddy 4]

They have been threatening this for awhile.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[dpreguy 14]

Estimate the life of a small business- a gun shop. 5 yrs? 10 years, 20 years? (seriously doubt that very many gun shops will stay in business 20 years, and most will probably die or be sold within 10 years.) The life cycle of such a small business can be debated, but whatever it is; it is a cycle.

It is obvious that the form 4473 is de facto registration of all firearms sold since the Brady legislation. Why do I say it is de facto, and eventually actual registration? Because when a gun shop goes out of business or is transferred, either by sale, gift, family transfer, such as in a will, the 4473's must be turned over to the BATF. Is this a delayed registration? Yes, but it is still universal registration, as the BATF only has to wait out the business life cycles of all of the stores to get those records. Hire cheap min wage data enterers to enter all of the info in a program, put it on a database and voila! There you have it! Universal registration of all firearms legally sold in all of the gun shops since the Brady law that didn't last 20 years. Mid 70's as I recall.

OK I guess some, (very few) gun shops will stay in business a long long time, and won't "cycle" in 10 or 20 years, and you would be OK, but it only takes some congressional do gooder to extend the 20 years to 50 years. Even at this point, the 20 year waiting game will probably result in most business failing or be transferred in less than 20 years, and away the 4473's pour into the BATF's lap, only awaiting the data to be entered so a searchable database can be created.

If you don't want your firearm to be eventually registered by the government, never ever buy any firearm from any business or individual if the 4463 is required. Never buy from a gun shop, because, unless your purchase is dated more than 20 years, eventually it will be in a universal database, and when another Katrina occurs, the local police will come to your door and know exactly, by description and serial number all of your guns. And yup, just like in the Katrina aftermath, they will confiscate them and you will have to beg to get them back, if ever you will.
Even if it isn't a Katrina scenario the locals or the feds will be knocking if they have some excuse, semi legitimate or manufactured, and will confiscate. And if it isn't the local police, bad guys (think hackers, who could sell the info) can find you and hunt you down to get your guns - Red Dawn style.

[TomWatson 0]

Federal law explicitly prohibits federal law enforcement agencies from: (1) using dealers’ records of sales to establish a centralized system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions; or (2) requiring dealers’ records of sales to be recorded in, or transferred to a centralized facility. (18 U.S.C. § 926.) As a result, with very limited exceptions, records of firearm sales are not maintained at the federal level.

As of 2004, approved purchaser information from background checks must be destroyed within 24 hours of the official NICS response to the dealer.

http://smartgunlaws.org/maintaining-gun-sales-background-check-records-policy-summary/

[Anvilbrother 0]

You have wayyy to much faith in our government to protect our liberties. They are/will create and maintain a gun registry, and if caught it will be under some other type of name like federal catalog of metal with holes in it, or some bullshit, and they will say it's not a gun registry, it's for some other "study". The level of mission creep, we know what you need more than you do, and outright in your face things the government has done in the past decade is very shocking.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[turtlespeed 212]

TomWatson

Federal law explicitly prohibits federal law enforcement agencies from: (1) using dealers’ records of sales to establish a centralized system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions; or (2) requiring dealers’ records of sales to be recorded in, or transferred to a centralized facility. (18 U.S.C. § 926.) As a result, with very limited exceptions, records of firearm sales are not maintained at the federal level.

As of 2004, approved purchaser information from background checks must be destroyed within 24 hours of the official NICS response to the dealer.

http://smartgunlaws.org/maintaining-gun-sales-background-check-records-policy-summary/

Yes, and the IRS isn't allowed to target individual political action non profits.
How well did that work out?

I would also like to mention that the Federal Government is supposed to enforce its immigration laws, how is that working?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[TomWatson 0]

To Anvil & Turtle:

I didn't say I had faith in our government to obey the laws we create for them to operate under. I was just pointing out what the law is, because some people seem to think that the BATF is allowed to have a centralized registry. They are not.

If our government is not obeying the laws we give them to operate under, then it's up to us to hold them accountable for their misbehavior. And the NRA and other pro-gun organizations will sue to enforce those laws as intended.

Seems like I heard a story years ago about the BATF trying to enter old dealer records into a database, and they got slapped down for that. So instead they just created some kind of index which makes it quicker and easier for them to find the paper records when they run a trace of a crime gun. The index doesn't contain the gun owner's personal info - it just tells them where to find the box of paper which does contain that info.

They still have to start with the manufacturer records, follow that serial number to the dealer to whom it was sold, and from there to the dealer's form 4473's to find the retail purchaser.

That's my understanding of the situation.

[jgoose71 0]

Or they just raid a dealer if they want info on something.

I don't know if you know the saga of Ares Armor in San Diego, but they have well documented BATFE abuses and over reach into their store, include ignoring restraining orders and everything.

Ares Armor has well documented the abuses on their Web Site for everyone to see.
http://aresarmor.com/store/Ares-Armor-dispute-with-the-ATF

I wouldn't expect anything to happen to BATFE though. They are an untouchable government agency, kind of like the DOJ.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
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