Riots over a shoting turn into free jordans and 40's

[tkhayes 145]

please re-read your own post and tell me that you did not just lump every black person in that town into the same category

[Anvilbrother 0]

That link is stupid, SWAT was started in in the 1960's the used ballistic helmets, vests, black bdu uniforms, elbow pads, knee, pads, flashbangs, gas masks, pepper balls, and either mp5, or ar15's even back then this isnt new to the game. The reason for the "war like swat vehicles" is the fact that for $1-$20 you can get a surplus military vehicle that is offered in the surplus program, or you can buy a Lenco BearCat for $180,000-$300,000 which makes more fiscal sense to you? And before you say "they dont need that WAR MACHINE" Its not a tank, it doesn't have a cannons guided missles, it's just a purpose built vehicle to protect the people inside from gun shots, and explosions. Perfect for riots, high risk warrants, environmental disasters etc.

All those officers in swat/riot gear are not from that small town of 21k, so stop trying to make it sound like all 200 officers are fully SWATTED out killers trying to kill the community.

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[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>What about this thread is incorrect?

>2. Black people started a riot
>5. A certain group of them came out of their community, or from other
>communities and took advantage of the confusion and started committing crimes.

Given that you posted pictures of a white looter, the above two are incorrect.

If you look at #5, he is refining this to a 'subgroup' - that's a step in the right direction in this communication. IMO, still misses the point though.


We can take #5 as true - But the definition of "certain group" should be changed to "criminals and criminally opportunistic" and left at that. If we want to focus on real cause, I'd not lazily apply the cosmetic (skin color, eye color, etc etc etc ad nauseum) distinction to define the group, rather apply the behavior and attitude and background to define individuals that compose the group. (match up things like attitude and background and anyone of any race will be out looting....as the pictures show)

Causal effects include upbringing, environment, education, etc etc etc --- these are actionable items. Skin color? how do you act on that? correlation does NOT equal causation and focusing on things that can't be acted on is non-productive and perpetuates the problem. IMO


Instead of saying "90% of them are black", I'd rather say "what does 100% of them have in common?" (the 90% thing is silly if the neighborhood is proportionately populated to the same as the subgroup that's looting)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 641]

You're never going to understand.

[Anvilbrother 0]

What am i missing normiss?

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[normiss 641]

Stop treating ALL citizens as if they were violent felons.
They aren't.

Cops have the right to murder with almost no proof, while it costs a citizen over $100,000 to prove they defended themselves.
This must change.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Stop treating ALL citizens as if they were violent felons.
They aren't.

Where in the hell did I say that?

Let me put the police mentality in a way a citizen will understand. Say you go to a concert, the mall, the movies, a casino, your in a multi story parking garage. Its around 1100 its dark, you are a female, or a male with your wife who has had a few drinks and is pretty loopy.

What is your mindset while walking to your vehicle? Do you ignore the fact that in that dark corner, the elevator, the stairs, crouched between two cars, in the back seat of your minivan is a guy with a knife looking to do bad things yo you and your family? Do you do anything different that you normally do not do on a bright and sunny day in your back yard?

Quote

Cops have the right to murder with almost no proof, while it costs a citizen over $100,000 to prove they defended themselves.
This must change.

Cops have the right to make a split second decision to take the life of another human being when presented with the immediate danger to their life by that human. This decision usually wrecks them in all aspects of their life including criminally, financially, career wise, socially, mentally, etc.

You have the right to sit back and judge them before all the facts are present and convict them while sitting in your chair at home.

In 90% of the cases your being fucked over by the media who reports only half of the story, and way before all the facts are known. Just like the recent video showing them tear gassing a tv news crew. I GUARANTEE you that they diddnt just see a news crew reporting on tv and go you know what fuck that tv crew. Something existed proir to that, such as requests/warnings for them to leave like a curfew and the media chose to stay

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[rehmwa 2]

normiss

Stop treating ALL citizens as if they were violent felons.
They aren't.

I'd agree with that. But I don't think cops treat all citizens as if they were violent felons. I think good cops just should be courteous and polite, but be ready in case the random person turns out to be a violent felon. Do you see the difference? (your contention is that cops don't do that - I'd contend you are judging the whole group by a bad subgroup. Anvil only turns me off because he opened the tread with a racial assumption that's just too broad to be anything but trolling)

But what about reality? - Any cop has to be careful because what he does know is that there is a chance that in this crowd of 500 people, there might be ONE violent felon, out of control on something and armed and unreasonable, that will target him or any one of the other 498 people that he is supposed to protect.

Oh - and he doesn't know which person it is out of that crowd.



same goes for approaching a car - clearly 99.99% of the time it's safe. But you don't know if THIS TIME you are approaching the 00.01% car with the psycho in the front seat. So you play it safe 100% of the time, and you also are courteous and kind 100% of the time - it's just a job.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 641]

War zone

This is how we meet a peaceful protest?
We shoot them with wooden bullets, tear gas, flash bangs??

[normiss 641]

ACLU report on the militarization of America

[weekender 0]

normiss

ACLU report on the militarization of America

i agree with you. the US has a strong history of community policing. we rebuilt Germany using this tradition. as we all recall their police was nationalized and very militarized. every little town has swat teams now and its just silly to me. i think police dept's are looking for ways to keep their budgets up and play soldier.

with that said. posting the ACLU's report on anything will be immediately dismissed by any reasonably minded group. they are extremely biased against police and IMO, law an order in general. not a way to win any converts. but maybe preaching to the choir was your point.

to reiterate my stance though, our police are way to militarized and we need to get back to community policing. i dont want a military police force in the USA. i actually feel like the USA is safer than when i was a kid. i know for sure, NYC is.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[baronn 111]

Without ALL the facts, it is difficult to ascertain exactly what happened here. However, shooting an unarmed teenager irregardless of the color of their skin certainly looks bad. Do these folks have a right/reason to be pissed? I think so. A right/reason to loot and riot? No.
The Police will always argue they gave the right to elevate to the next level of aggression. You don't comply to their orders, they can wrestle you to the ground. You attempt to flee, they can Taser. You pull a weapon, they can fire theirs. I personally don't believe in bringing a gun to a fist fight. Appropriate defense is my motto. Unfortunately, things often escalate quickly and bullies with a badge over react. Facing these folks with riot clad, military outfitted cops is inviting an aggressive reaction. If it happens to the cops, it's justified. If your a citizen, it's not complying. I'm passive at 1st, I'll warn if it persists and I'll react if it continues. Seems more restraint on each side here could avoid these ultimatums. The cops shot an unarmed kid. Being a bit sympathetic to that may have avoided this scene. Instead the cops go into overdrive pushback mode. I hate Bullies. Especially those with a badge. Lets see if they play this honestly or skew the facts. Sure be nice to see it dealt straight and honest. For a change....

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Do these folks have a right/reason to be pissed?

Quote

The cops shot an unarmed teen

This is exactly the shit the media has told everyone that incited this riot. Do you, the media, the cops( under investigation) have all the facts at this point? Were you there when the kid was killed, was an unbiased media there? If you dont have all the facts then we all shouldn't say shit about the shootings, or police actions.

Remember what Spike Lee did during the zimmerman trial which was supported by the media at the beginning?

Quote

Director Spike Lee retweeted to his 240,000 followers an address he thought was George Zimmerman's. The message said “feel free to reach out and touch him [Zimmerman].” As if that wasn't bad enough, it turns out Lee publicized the wrong address. The couple who actually live there -- a 70-year-old school-cafeteria lunch lady with a heart condition and her 72-year-old husband -- have received hate mail, unwanted visits from reporters, and fearful inquiries from neighbors. To keep themselves from harm, they have temporarily moved to a hotel. And we still don't know all the facts.

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[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

Quote

Do these folks have a right/reason to be pissed?

***The cops shot an unarmed teen

This is exactly the shit the media has told everyone that incited this riot. Do you, the media, the cops( under investigation) have all the facts at this point? Were you there when the kid was killed, was an unbiased media there? If you dont have all the facts then we all shouldn't say shit about the shootings, or police actions.



Bummer that the cop did not have a drop gun for that... a more seasoned officer would....and then you have an instant kid with an unmarked unregistered gun..... problem solved.

[normiss 641]

You support arresting reporters while peacefully sitting at lunch in McDeath?
It's out of control there.
Responding to public protests with a violent, military attitude gets what we are seeing.
The super cop attitude must stop.
Stormtroopers!!

[normiss 641]

Ferguson Police:

Assault rifles: Yes
Night vision goggles: Yes
Gas masks: Yes
Armored vehicles: Yes
Dash cam: No

[Amazon 7]

normiss

Ferguson Police:

Assault rifles: Yes
Night vision goggles: Yes
Gas masks: Yes
Armored vehicles: Yes
Dash cam: No

Well... gotta keep expenses down ya know....
They might have to make a few hundred more "contacts" to raise more revenue.... I get the feeling this community already gets more than their share of "contact" with this police force.

[rehmwa 2]

normiss

War zone

This is how we meet a peaceful protest?
We shoot them with wooden bullets, tear gas, flash bangs??

I say we meet a peaceful protest with cautious observation.

I'd say we meet a violent protest with those things. (Better if able to go and tactically just arrest participating individuals, I don't know how difficult that is)

I'm just speaking in general, you know. I'll watch your link later. Hopefully it has the entire context and not just carefully selected edits.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

baronn

I personally don't believe in bringing a gun to a fist fight.....

I don't either when it's two consenting types - personal to just settle things.

Another general comment. I do for cops. They are not 'in' the fight, it's not supposed to be fair. It's their JOB, it's not personal, why should they put it on the line so someone that's a danger to all of us can claim an equal fight, that's stupid. When a criminal pulls a knife, I want the cop to have a gun.

What I want is better cops so this imbalance makes sense all the time. (Dash cams is certainly one good way to move in that direction for those locales that need to)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

rehmwa

***I personally don't believe in bringing a gun to a fist fight.....

I don't either when it's two consenting types - personal to just settle things.

Another general comment. I do for cops. They are not 'in' the fight, it's not supposed to be fair. It's their JOB, it's not personal, why should they put it on the line so someone that's a danger to all of us can claim an equal fight, that's stupid. When a criminal pulls a knife, I want the cop to have a gun.

What I want is better cops so this imbalance makes sense all the time. (Dash cams is certainly one good way to move in that direction for those locales that need to)

^^^^
THIS

I would think the professionals on the job would DEMAND POV cameras to protect them from bogus claims against them.

Then all we have to do is make the video available to the public without the department stonewalling the release for months or YEARS like Seattle PD has done repeatedly.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=Seattle+PD+Sued+for+dash+cam+video&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=seattle+pd+sued+for+dash+cam+video&sc=0-14&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=0189be64ab8d454a95f3dd4051e1f095

[normiss 641]

"That event is an example of why we need fewer, smarter, and better trained cops, not more up-armored thugs playing out fantasies with live ammo on the public that they are supposed to protect and serve."

I found that in the comments and thought it was appropriate.

[Anvilbrother 0]

I want anyone who questions why police are on guard all the time to answer this.

Quote

Let me put the police mentality in a way a citizen will understand. Say you go to a concert, the mall, the movies, a casino, your in a multi story parking garage. Its around 1100 its dark, you are a female, or a male with your wife who has had a few drinks and is pretty loopy.

What is your mindset while walking to your vehicle? Do you ignore the fact that in that dark corner, the elevator, the stairs, crouched between two cars, in the back seat of your minivan is a guy with a knife looking to do bad things yo you and your family? Do you do anything different that you normally do not do on a bright and sunny day in your back yard?

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[normiss 641]

I'm street smart in most of those ways.
If I standing there talking to another person on the street, I don't take the opportunity to tackle them because I'm afraid.
I don't choke hold people to talk to them.
I don't taze you because you're not listening.
I don't arrest you because my wife pissed me off this morning.
I don't write you a ticket because I'm mad I couldn't ride the cool police motorcycle today because of the rain, yet chose to harass you because you are.
I've never asked a stranger "Do you want to go to jail today?"
I've never brandished a weapon, a radio, and a badge in an unmarked car because you almost hit me trying to avoid another car wreck and threaten you with jail.


ok, fingers are tired....

[cgriff 0]

Anvilbrother

I want anyone who questions why police are on guard all the time to answer this.

I have yet to see anyone question why police are on guard. What I see being questioned is why police are murdering subdued suspects, raping civilians during traffic stops, firing gas canisters at press... Are you able to see the difference between those actions and being on guard?

[Anvilbrother 0]

Have a look at the pictures here, and the 1100+ comments. This is from Reddit a place where millions of people post every day, and is heavily liberal. They also see what is going on .
http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2djkqh/yes_there_have_been_gross_oversteps_by_police_but/

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