If you like your doctor or your plan, you can keep them, period . . .

[turtlespeed 212]

It's true, he said it is so . . . over and over again . . .

So . . . then why do we have this on the new web site?

What can this mean?

Was Barry being less than honest?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

Just as honest as he was in his speech yesterday

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 212]

rushmc

Just as honest as he was in his speech yesterday

I like this one too.

I thought we could keep our coverage as it is.
That is what Barry said, right?

He's a Trustworthy guy isn't he?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,295]

I liked the health insurance I had at work. Of course, I lost that job, and with it the insurance. Was that Obama's fault too?

There are plenty of problems with a massive new program. Let's not manufacture any.

The next president is very likely to be a republican; he'll (probably he) serve either 1 or 2 terms, mostly dependent on the economy, and then be replaced by a democrat. The only one to get away from that since the end of WW2 is GHW Bush, and, well, he was running against Dukakis .

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

I liked the health insurance I had at work. Of course, I lost that job, and with it the insurance. Was that Obama's fault too?

Actually yes.
He wanted to change NASA's mission - To be more friendly to terrorists or something like that. Understanding Muslims better, wasn't it?

Quote

There are plenty of problems with a massive new program. Let's not manufacture any.

Oh, I think the Government does JUST fine on its own, in that regard.

Quote

The next president is very likely to be a republican; he'll (probably he) serve either 1 or 2 terms, mostly dependent on the economy, and then be replaced by a democrat. The only one to get away from that since the end of WW2 is GHW Bush, and, well, he was running against Dukakis .

Wendy P.

I'm not that confident in your assessment.
The Republican Party is fragmented at best, the Tea Part saw to that, but understandably (from their point of view) so.

The entitlement society has been thriving and growing and flourishing. (I wish I could invest in that somehow, I'd be very wealthy at its current growth rate.) So I have my doubts whether a conservative is elected.

But Back On Subject . . .

I believe we were discussing the honesty of President Obama.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,295]

Well, actually, it was Bush who cancelled the shuttle program in 2004 or 2005. It was always clear that the funding for Orion wasn't going to allow the maintenance of a similar number of workers.

I left a job in management specifically because of that, and went and got some certifications in anticipation of needing to continue to work. I got lucky in personal life choices, and was able to retire instead.

But my chances of going straight Orion after shuttle were never great.

I think it was the right decision, just as I think that the decision to privatize the supply of Space Station was the right one (it's working, right?). It impacted me, but that's not always the only consideration.

As far as being a pure Obama-bashing thread, well, I don't fit into that box all that well

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

As far as being a pure Obama-bashing thread, well, I don't fit into that box all that well

Wendy P.

You would be if you were more honest with yourself and looked at the hard truth.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,819]

turtlespeed

It's true, he said it is so . . . over and over again . . .

So . . . then why do we have this on the new web site?

What can this mean?

Was Barry being less than honest?

No, it means that the employer is a jerk.

(1) Employers have always been free to change or drop coverage, nothing new there.

(2) ACA doesn't force any employer to drop coverage. If they do it, they do it of their own volition.

(3) The ONLY attempt to force an employer to drop coverage has come from the House GOP, which tried to pass a spending bill that forced the Federal Government to drop coverage on certain federal employees.

Hence (4) the GOP is full of hypocrites.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

***It's true, he said it is so . . . over and over again . . .

So . . . then why do we have this on the new web site?

What can this mean?

Was Barry being less than honest?

No, it means that the employer is a jerk.

(1) Employers have always been free to change or drop coverage, nothing new there.

(2) ACA doesn't force any employer to drop coverage. If they do it, they do it of their own volition.

(3) The ONLY attempt to force an employer to drop coverage has come from the House GOP, which tried to pass a spending bill that forced the Federal Government to drop coverage on certain federal employees.

Hence (4) the GOP is full of hypocrites.

Really? So the Federal Government is going to insure that the companies that are involved keep their coverage the same? Institute a federal mandate that keeps all companies in business regardless of the costs?

Seems to me that if, because of the added expenses due to Obamacare, any changes are, by default, not ". . . keeping your current coverage, period."

If the government policy in place leaves no other choice, because it is too expensive for the insurance company to viably cover those costs, it is the fault of the policy in place that changes are made.

Doubling cost while reducing most plans' coverage is stupid, and is 180 degrees from what Obama said would happen to the majority.

Will you admit he lied?

Had Obama never messed with it it would be a minimal increase across the board.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,691]

>Really? So the Federal Government is going to insure that the companies that are
>involved keep their coverage the same? Institute a federal mandate that keeps all
>companies in business regardless of the costs?

No, private companies can do whatever they want to.

If this confuses you, here's one that will really bake your noodle -

Obama said you can keep your doctor. But what if he dies, huh? Is Obama going to OUTLAW DEATH?

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>Really? So the Federal Government is going to insure that the companies that are
>involved keep their coverage the same? Institute a federal mandate that keeps all
>companies in business regardless of the costs?

No, private companies can do whatever they want to.

If this confuses you, here's one that will really bake your noodle -

Obama said you can keep your doctor. But what if he dies, huh? Is Obama going to OUTLAW DEATH?

He's your messiah, you tell us.

. . . So you admit he lied then.

Here is a hint, Lying is when you don't tell the truth.

Making promises you can't keep is the same as not telling the truth.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Obama said you can keep your doctor.

And he had exactly what power to make sure that happened?

If I tell you that Perris will give you free jumps. Is it my fault or Perris's fault if you show up and they make you pay for your jumps?

[kallend 1,819]

turtlespeed

******It's true, he said it is so . . . over and over again . . .

So . . . then why do we have this on the new web site?

What can this mean?

Was Barry being less than honest?

No, it means that the employer is a jerk.

(1) Employers have always been free to change or drop coverage, nothing new there.

(2) ACA doesn't force any employer to drop coverage. If they do it, they do it of their own volition.

(3) The ONLY attempt to force an employer to drop coverage has come from the House GOP, which tried to pass a spending bill that forced the Federal Government to drop coverage on certain federal employees.

Hence (4) the GOP is full of hypocrites.

Really? So the Federal Government is going to insure that the companies that are involved keep their coverage the same? Institute a federal mandate that keeps all companies in business regardless of the costs?



(1) Employers have always been free to change or drop coverage, nothing new there.

(2) ACA doesn't force any employer to drop coverage. If they do it, they do it of their own volition.

(3) The ONLY attempt to force an employer to drop coverage has come from the House GOP, which tried to pass a spending bill that forced the Federal Government to drop coverage on certain federal employees.

Hence (4) the GOP is full of hypocrites and the people who swallow the GOP Kool Aid are morons.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

So an entity produces a circumstance that forces change, but insists that they are not causing the change, it is still someone else's fault.
Yep - You be liberal, dude.

So, was he lying when he said that us Americans could keep our coverage and our doctor or not?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

More hypocritical bs from you

Most of these despised employers would like to keep HC for their employess
ACA makes that near impossible unless they wish to go out of business

And the only one trying to force anything is you and your beloved government

Next

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 212]

Iago

I have a contact at Xerox. This year they are not offering options. One plan only. If you dont like it go buy your own.


Im still waiting to hear about my employers offerings.

Pretty soon we will all be working 30 hour weeks.
Or we will work for companies with less than 50 employees.

Maybe the Administration will pass a law that says we are not allowed to be dropped to part time if we are already full time.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Bignugget 0]

billvon

>Really? So the Federal Government is going to insure that the companies that are
>involved keep their coverage the same? Institute a federal mandate that keeps all
>companies in business regardless of the costs?

No, private companies can do whatever they want to.

If this confuses you, here's one that will really bake your noodle -

Obama said you can keep your doctor. But what if he dies, huh? Is Obama going to OUTLAW DEATH?

That one made me chuckle.



To our beloved OP.

That link doesn't even talk about what happens if your cold-hearted SOB CEO like the Hobby Lobby guy drops all the healthcare he offered before and forces you to go shop on your own.

It's talking about what happens when you lose your job entirely....

You have to at least post stuff that applies somewhat.

I did like your self-fulfilling idea about if the employer changes the plans it offers, you can't keep the one you wanted, so Obama lied.

That almost tracks in a crazy foil hat style way. I am on board with it!

Like if my mom told me I can have any Ipad I want, then Apple stops selling the Ipad I want, my mom is a mother fucking LIAR.

That is why as soon as she is old enough, shes going straight into a home. Hopefully not one ran by kiss-ass liberal democrats who will give her whatever she wants. I'll be searching for one where she has to chop her own firewood for warmth.

[linebckr83 3]

Bignugget

Like if my mom told me I can have any Ipad I want, then Apple stops selling the Ipad I want, my mom is a mother fucking LIAR.

That is why as soon as she is old enough, shes going straight into a home. Hopefully not one ran by kiss-ass liberal democrats who will give her whatever she wants. I'll be searching for one where she has to chop her own firewood for warmth.

Well in all fairness, she did lie a little bit. You can't have ANY Ipad you want anymore right? Plus, I'm sure at some point in your childhood she told you that you were a beautiful and wonderful person.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[turtlespeed 212]

linebckr83

***
Like if my mom told me I can have any Ipad I want, then Apple stops selling the Ipad I want, my mom is a mother fucking LIAR.

That is why as soon as she is old enough, shes going straight into a home. Hopefully not one ran by kiss-ass liberal democrats who will give her whatever she wants. I'll be searching for one where she has to chop her own firewood for warmth.

Well in all fairness, she did lie a little bit. You can't have ANY Ipad you want anymore right? Plus, I'm sure at some point in your childhood she told you that you were a beautiful and wonderful person.

I'd say its more like if Mom was sending him to cosmetics school, and said sure honey, here is a bank account that you have access to until you graduate. Then the government puts so many restrictions on the bank that it is forced to change its policy regarding that account.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[champu 1]

wmw999

There are plenty of problems with a massive new program. Let's not manufacture any.

Indeed, losing a job that provided health insurance has always meant losing that insurance, and it always will.

That said, a promise that people could keep their plan while mandating changes that necessitated the rewokring of most plans (I'm having trouble finding what percentage of people prior to PPACA had plans that had a lifetime coverage limit, for example, but I can safely guess "a very high percentage") is a promise that is doomed to be broken. There are special cases where waivers against these changes could be made, and fees are imposed, but if you have a group plan through your employer, the individual isn't the one negotiating for a waiver or not.

That said...

If you have a policy through a large employer group plan, you'll probably see your premiums go up modestly (starting a couple years ago) and your coverage won't really change significantly. I'm in this boat. c'est la vie.

If you had insurance from a small company or had an individual plan... *throws hands up in the air* who the hell knows. Depending on your age, and how long it's been since you've shopped for a plan, I think all bets are off as to what's going to happen to your costs/coverage.

[muff528 3]

Good News for Me!!! ...I get to keep my insurance!
Major provider. Annual premium before Oct 1: $4244.16
Annual premium now: $16402.08

Of course, I only pay half and the company would pay the other half. And the new plan is way shittier than the old one. If I need it, I'll pay at least another $10k in co-pays and deductibles before it comes across with the first dime.

No pre-existing conditions and I've never filed a claim for so much as an aspirin.

AND ...if I want to add my kid to this plan it'll be another $4k (I'd be paying all of that). So, my total annual premiums for both of us would be $12335.16.


Yay!

[turtlespeed 212]

muff528

Good News for Me!!! ...I get to keep my insurance!
Major provider. Annual premium before Oct 1: $4244.16
Annual premium now: $16402.08

Of course, I only pay half and the company would pay the other half. And the new plan is way shittier than the old one. If I need it, I'll pay at least another $10k in co-pays and deductibles before it comes across with the first dime.

No pre-existing conditions and I've never filed a claim for so much as an aspirin.

AND ...if I want to add my kid to this plan it'll be another $4k (I'd be paying all of that). So, my total annual premiums for both of us would be $12335.16.


Yay!

THAT is affordable!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[headoverheels 324]

My employer paid $23k for medical coverage for my wife and I last year. I paid about $3k premiums, plus maybe $5k out of pocket.