Hilfinger, Klein, got nothin on the Triangle Girls...

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

And those workers wouldn't have jobs and would be starving.

That mind-set is the main reason why labor unions emerged as a force to be reckoned with at the turn of the 20th Century.

[ChrisD 0]

Great point Andy, which is why "they" moved offshore!

We are not against buisness.

But you need to understand the consumer has the least "power" in this system. This is why Whalmart loves talk about "boycots" because they know they don't work.

In this discussion you also need to understand Whalmarts budget is larger than most countries!

You also need to understand that western news media is controlled.

You need also to understand that the "median" viewpoint is the one that research has proven is considered the most factual! Regardless of the truth! So if you want to be believed, just tone down your observations and be moderate, this is why many atrocities in our world take so long to be understood! No one belived that the HU TU's / Tutisi's killed close to a million in their little squabble. It took 100,000 lives before NATO acted because no one belived what was going on!!!

C

End of lecture for today

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[OHCHUTE 0]

Quote

Great point Andy, which is why "they" moved offshore!

We are not against buisness.

But you need to understand the consumer has the least "power" in this system. This is why Whalmart loves talk about "boycots" because they know they don't work.

In this discussion you also need to understand Whalmarts budget is larger than most countries!

You also need to understand that western news media is controlled.

You need also to understand that the "median" viewpoint is the one that research has proven is considered the most factual! Regardless of the truth! So if you want to be believed, just tone down your observations and be moderate, this is why many atrocities in our world take so long to be understood! No one belived that the HU TU's / Tutisi's killed close to a million in their little squabble. It took 100,000 lives before NATO acted because no one belived what was going on!!!

C

End of lecture for today

There is a difference between an honorable, ethical fair business, and slimeball, dirtbag business. Like being told you need a new transmission when you don't need one.

[billvon 2,478]

>Companies that do what?

Companies that care so little about employees that they keep them in a deathtrap of a building.

>If you really want change, hammer the local goobermint that allows this shit to happen.

So government, rather than the people, should be the ones forcing change on society? Interesting.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Hammering the US gummint for "allowing" imports from countries with doubtful safety records won't go very far;

Quote

Yep. Which is one reason why I specified hammering "local" goobermints.

Quote

Boycotting products with doubtful safety record pedigrees is more likely to work, especially when combined with a good publicity scheme.

Note: Pick them off one at time and you'll not live long enough to see any apprecaible results. Nor will you gain long-term change.

Quote

As long as people want goods for the cheapest possible price, it'll keep happening.

We're not going to change that mindset.
Which makes all efforts a waste of good energy.

Quote

And there's always someone poor and miserable enough to work in subhuman conditions.

True dat. When the options are sub-human and sub-sub-human.....guess what? So who's gonna change that? U.S. companies or local goobermints?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Quote

And those workers wouldn't have jobs and would be starving.

That mind-set is the main reason why labor unions emerged as a force to be reckoned with at the turn of the 20th Century.

True enough on its own...amongst other factors.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

>Companies that do what?

Companies that care so little about employees that they keep them in a deathtrap of a building.

Sounds like you are trying to blame U.S. companies for that. Wrong tree

>If you really want change, hammer the local goobermint that allows this shit to happen.

So government, rather than the people, should be the ones forcing change on society? Interesting.

So you think the people can act and sustain without goobermint sanction? Either that or you seem to think goobermint is helpless to stop the stupid shit? Keep in mind you are not dealing with 'Merikan goobermint.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ryoder 1,412]

Don't you hate it when you are rescuing people trapped in the rubble and their numbers start increasing?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/oddball/woman-buried-bangladesh-factory-collapse-gives-birth-under-rubble

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ChrisD 0]

Seven hundred workers have died in factory collapses and fires in this very small region outside Dhaka alone in the last decade.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/25/opinion/bangladesh-factory-collapse-opinion/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn


Not sayin a lot of this is right / wrong, just that when you walk down the street in your jeans you might want to know what, where, and why they are being made. It's one thing to be delusional, it's another to say, "I'm a card carrying member of the "East India Trading Company" and I support our colonial imperalism! There is a difference between having blinders on and knowing! think of it this way how many of us would become vegitarians if we had to do in our beloved "Bessie." It is so much easier to let McDonalds serve it, (Bessie) in a bun V doin it the Tim Taylor method. (do it your self)

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Don't you hate it when you are rescuing people trapped in the rubble and their numbers start increasing?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/oddball/woman-buried-bangladesh-factory-collapse-gives-birth-under-rubble

The kid is gonna have problems when he grows up.
"Where were you born?"
"Under the rubble."
"Right, kid. We're not here to play games, Now, where were you born?"

Don't tell me she's gonna name the kid Barney.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Seven hundred workers have died in factory collapses and fires in this very small region outside Dhaka alone in the last decade.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/25/opinion/bangladesh-factory-collapse-opinion/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

"Hundreds of factories are being thrown up in a short space of time, with limited building regulations, "
So....let's get on the bandwagon and blame the U.S. retailers. Yep.


"...brands continue to look for ways to race to the bottom on prices,..."
Return on investment is not a new concept. It's a company's job to make money. So....let's get on the bandwagon and blame the U.S. retailers.

Apparently, the thinking in here is that, in the interest of righteousness, they should only make $XXX much money. Investors love that, don't they?

"...and sadly this involves cutting corners on health and safety. Brands will by no means admit to this."
And why should they? "Brands" have no control over what local goobemints allow their people to build nor how local goobemints allow abuses of any sort.

"The prices that they pay, they assure us, are enough to pay workers enough to live on and keep factories in tip top condition. "
...which is total made-up bullshit.

"...factory owners inevitably let things slide, like replacing faulty machinery or fixing worrying building subsidence...'
So, let's get on the mindless bandwagon again and blame the U.S. retailers. If you can't see the real problem here....I'm sorry.

"The responsibility for ensuring that a product was made with human rights in mind has to fall somewhere,..."
Agree with that.

"... and the United Nations guiding principles on business and human rights says that it falls jointly to states and mass corporate businesses to "protect, respect and remedy" human rights."
States? What states? The states of the U.S.? The U.S. itself?
Corporate businesses? Total emotion-blinded, unthinking BS.

Nope. Local goobermints. It's their responsibility to look after their own people. Plain and simple.



And on and on and on.
The rest of the article points to the problems of the local goobermints yet still want to hold the gun to the heads of U.S. businesses. Stoopid.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

This entire conversation is just another aspect of the idiotic, "I'm envious because you make too much money and I don't want you to", crowd.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ChrisD 0]

Imagine you’ve just landed a job with a big-time retailer. Your task is to load and unload boxes from trucks and containers. It’s back-breaking work. You toil 12 to 16 hours a day, often without a lunch break. Sweat drenches your clothes in the 90-degree heat, but you keep going: your kids need their dinner. One day, your supervisor tells you that instead of being paid an hourly wage, you will now get paid for the number of containers you load or unload. This will be great for you, your supervisor says: More money! But you open your next paycheck to find it shrunken to the point that you are no longer even making minimum wage. You complain to your supervisor, who promptly sends you home without pay for the day. If you pipe up again, you’ll be looking for another job.

Everardo Carrillo says that's just what happened to him and other low-wage employees who worked at a Southern California warehouse run by a Walmart contractor. Carrillo and his fellow workers have launched a multi-class-action lawsuit for massive wage theft (Everardo Carrillo et al. v. Schneider Logistics) in a case that’s finally bringing national attention to an invisible epidemic. (Walmart, despite its claims that it has no responsibility for what its contractors do, has been named a defendant.)

What happened to Carrillo happens every day in America. And it could happen to you.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Local goobermints. It's their responsibility to look after their own people. Plain and simple.

Nonsense. The "corporate social responsibility" I discuss in post #18 means that it's wrong for First World corporations to hide behind the corruption and ineptitude of Third World governments and absolve themselves of responsibility for unsafe and inhumane conditions existing in Third World plants that produce their products, simply because those plants are (mostly) beyond the jurisdiction of First World laws and regulations.

Quote

This entire conversation is just another aspect of the idiotic, "I'm envious because you make too much money and I don't want you to", crowd.

Name-calling is not discussion; it's just name-calling, poopie-head.

[ChrisD 0]

If "Pops" wants to call names, he gets my full support and God's blessing to do so,...

Love ya man!

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Andy9o8 0]

Here, you want something we'll agree on? Look at THIS.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Nonsense. The "corporate social responsibility" I discuss in post #18 means that it's wrong for First World corporations to hide behind the corruption and ineptitude of Third World governments and absolve themselves of responsibility for unsafe and inhumane conditions existing in Third World plants that produce their products, simply because those plants are (mostly) beyond the jurisdiction of First World laws and regulations.

Hide behind? You're kidding, right?
Corporate America is responsible for what other countries do? Nah.

That's similar to saying that YOU are responsible for all the actions of the slimeball lawyers out there. You want to buy into that?

You may note that the country in question here is taking path to correct these kinds of things.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/2013/04/29/bangladesh-police-interrogate-building-owner/bSCkfwi5mu1K4n3JOr1fcN/story.html

You may note that none of the things being done by the local goobermint have anything to do with corporate America....the entire problem in their hands, not ours.

Your moral outrage against the conditions these people work in is warranted. You would like for corporate America to go elsewhere for their products and that's fine. Your demand for corporate America to fix the problem is misguided.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

That's similar to saying that YOU are responsible for all the actions of the slimeball lawyers out there. You want to buy into that?

I'm no more or less responsible for reproach of misbehaving lawyers than you are for reproach of skydiving instructors who still teach the 45-degree rule, like the one I linked in post #41 here. Sometimes silence is complicity.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

What happened to Carrillo happens every day in America. And it could happen to you.

Well, not me particularly but yes, I concur otherwise. Matter of fact it's happening already as a result of Obammerjammer's politics:
"We're going to cut your hours so that we can claim you are a part-time employee."

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

What happened to Carrillo happens every day in America. And it could happen to you.

Well, not me particularly but yes, I concur otherwise. Matter of fact it's happening already as a result of Obammerjammer's politics:
"We're going to cut your hours so that we can claim you are a part-time employee."

Keeping employees at just-under full time hours, to avoid having to give them benefits, is an age-old tactic employed long before President CatDog ever hit the scene.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Quote

That's similar to saying that YOU are responsible for all the actions of the slimeball lawyers out there. You want to buy into that?

I'm no more or less responsible for reproach of misbehaving lawyers than you are for reproach of skydiving instructors who still teach the 45-degree rule, like the one I linked in post #41 here. Sometimes silence is complicity.

Exactly. When one speaks up, it would be a good idea to speak up addressing the reality as opposed to the fallacious.

...or are you saying I'm advocating silence?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Keeping employees at just-under full time hours, to avoid having to give them benefits, is an age-old tactic employed long before President CatDog ever hit the scene.

True dat....it's another rock to throw at him.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

Keeping employees at just-under full time hours, to avoid having to give them benefits, is an age-old tactic employed long before President CatDog ever hit the scene.

True dat....it's another truthful spear to throw at him.

Thinly-veiled spear-chucker reference?

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Keeping employees at just-under full time hours, to avoid having to give them benefits, is an age-old tactic employed long before President CatDog ever hit the scene.

True dat....it's another truthful spear to throw at him.

Thinly-veiled spear-chucker reference?

I knew that was coming..that's why I edited to "rock".

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ChrisD 0]

Here's one for thought:



"THE LESS YOU KNOW, THE STRONGER YOUR OPINIONS ARE,..."

People who hold extreme views on complex policy issues tend not to have thought all that hard about the ramifications of those policies. That's the argument behind a recent paper published in Psychological Science by Philip Fernbach of the London School of Business, Todd Rogers of Harvard's Kennedy School, Craig Fox of UCLA, and Steven Sloman of Brown.

The authors asked 198 participants to rate their positions from "strongly against" to "strongly in favor" on a number of policies including unilateral sanctions on Iran, raising the retirment age for social security, a single-payer health care system, a cap-and-trade carbon emissions system, a national flat tax, and merit pay for teachers.

Participants were then asked to provide a mechanistic explanation for one of the six policies. As hypothesized, when they were asked again for their opinion, they tended to be a little more nuanced:


As predicted, asking people to explain how policies work decreased their reported understanding of those policies and led them to report more moderate attitudes toward those policies. We observed these effects both within- and between-participants. Change in understanding correlated with position extremity, such that those exhibiting greater decreases in understanding tended to also exhibit greater moderation of their positions

Critically, the authors found that providing factual explanations for the policy had more of a moderating effect than simply asking participants to explain why they held the position they did.

There have been a number of studies finding that discussion between like-minded people tends to produce an echo-chamber effect, pushing participants to politcial extremes. (This is the central argument behind Cass Sunstein's Republic 2.0 as well.)

This new study suggests that the problem is not the amount of political conversation people have, but the type. When we have to explain a policy, we find that we're not quite as confident in our stance on it,..."



Interesting just like in rumor theory, the less we know about something the stronger our huristics and response to complex social issues???

Go figure???

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."