DSE 3 #26 August 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteAnyway... when was the last time any of us did that? As was mentioned before, several times a year at demos. Used to do one for the City Bell and due to the approach to LAX we were lucky to get 2,000 feet. Roll out of a 206 with 15 lbs. of flag hanging around my waist, get open, deploy flag, find target and try not to forget to smile for the kiddies. But that is why they paid us the “Big Bucks.” Sparky, you're my hero. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #27 August 4, 2006 QuoteAll that and under around, too. I am going to assume you meant a round canopy. No, have never done a demo with a round parachute. For the last 15/20 years I used a 245 Sharpchuter with a split slider and separated stabilizers. Very stable in sink and it can fly backwards.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #28 August 4, 2006 QuoteThanks for the info. I think it is the same in the UK aswell. As far as I'm aware there are no minimum exit altitudes in the UK for emergency situations. When it comes to emergencies you do what you have to, following instruction from the pilot via the JM, to obtain the least-worst outcome from any given situation. There will be occasions when that means bracing for impact as best you can in whatever time you have left. On the other hand, there will be occasions when that means I keep lobbing static line students out of a very front-heavy glider right down to 500ft – because I can't get out until they're all out and personally, the least-worst outcome for me in many situations is going to be taking the chance that my reserve will open within its TSO limits. That should see me good even after I chuck the last S/L out at 500ft. And S/L students should all be fine even at 500ft – so long as they don't have a mal... but if that's a better bet than landing with whatever we have left of a plane, then that's the bet they need to be taking. But as indicated above – we're all just shooting shit now. In the real world, the bets are all off when that wing comes loose (or whatever). The key thing for someone at your stage of your skydiving career to remember is that you need to follow instructions from the JM and/or pilot as the situation dictates and be ready to do whatever it takes to obtain the least-worst outcome for the given situation. Possible emergencies are so varied that there's little more specific advice that can be given I'm afraid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #29 August 7, 2006 QuoteI once exited an Otter at 1200 feet because of an engine problem. The pilot could maintain altitude but didn't want to land with a full load. He turned the green light on early on the downwind jump run because he thought people would be low to exit. We all landed off :-) I'm curious - did people on this load go straight to their reserves? A 1200 foot sub-terminal exit seems to be right at the edge of "spook your AAD" altitude. Just curious how many people ended up following muscle memory and pitching the main anyway."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites faulknerwn 37 #30 August 7, 2006 2 people went out on reserve, everyone else went out mains. AADs weren't an issue as the plane never got to 1500 feet so the Cypreses wouldn't have activated anyway... W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #31 August 7, 2006 Quote2 people went out on reserve, everyone else went out mains. AADs weren't an issue as the plane never got to 1500 feet so the Cypreses wouldn't have activated anyway... Good point to emphasize and one that I'm not sure would occur to me in the stress of an aircraft emergency such as the one you were involved in (though it sounds like you were at least able to deploy from a stable aircraft in level flight). With my snively Spectre, my plan if I get out below 1500 is to go straight to my reserve, whether or not the AAD has had a chance to arm itself."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #32 August 8, 2006 I think we all need to remember for that every plane emergency like this where there was a plane problem low, and it crashed killed people... there are dozens of plane problems low that the pilot deadsticked the landing and everyone was fine. i don't want to see people dying or getting injured the next time a c182 has an engine out at 500' and everyone rushes for the door, whacking into the instruments, and deploying too low to live. the reason there is the 1000 or 1500' rule is because you are generally safer riding the plane down rather then trying to exit low. and at 500', seatbelted in, when it suddenly goes uncontrollable, if you think you would have enough time to unbuckle, get up, get to the door and open it, then exit the aircraft, all while it is uncontrolled, you are badly mistaken. don't let one incident change your plane emergency procedures MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zing 2 #33 August 8, 2006 Agreed ... and the last thing the pilot needs when the fan quits turning is a major change in CG and assholes and armpits bashing controls, climbing the pilot's seat, etc. when attention needs to be focused on finding a place to land. "Any landing you run away from is good enough." said my first flight instructor. You know what that fan thing on the front of the motor is really for? To keep the pilot cool ... 'cause you should see em' sweat when it stops.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #34 August 10, 2006 Depends, too, on the airspeed of the plane. Doing a hop and pop with good forward speed, the canopy opens as you're moving across the sky. From 1500 feet and just exiting the airplane, you have about 13-14 seconds until impact, which is about the same as being at 2400 feet in terminal freefall. I've done a number of hop and pops from 1200 and lower - okay, maybe not a great idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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mjosparky 3 #27 August 4, 2006 QuoteAll that and under around, too. I am going to assume you meant a round canopy. No, have never done a demo with a round parachute. For the last 15/20 years I used a 245 Sharpchuter with a split slider and separated stabilizers. Very stable in sink and it can fly backwards.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #28 August 4, 2006 QuoteThanks for the info. I think it is the same in the UK aswell. As far as I'm aware there are no minimum exit altitudes in the UK for emergency situations. When it comes to emergencies you do what you have to, following instruction from the pilot via the JM, to obtain the least-worst outcome from any given situation. There will be occasions when that means bracing for impact as best you can in whatever time you have left. On the other hand, there will be occasions when that means I keep lobbing static line students out of a very front-heavy glider right down to 500ft – because I can't get out until they're all out and personally, the least-worst outcome for me in many situations is going to be taking the chance that my reserve will open within its TSO limits. That should see me good even after I chuck the last S/L out at 500ft. And S/L students should all be fine even at 500ft – so long as they don't have a mal... but if that's a better bet than landing with whatever we have left of a plane, then that's the bet they need to be taking. But as indicated above – we're all just shooting shit now. In the real world, the bets are all off when that wing comes loose (or whatever). The key thing for someone at your stage of your skydiving career to remember is that you need to follow instructions from the JM and/or pilot as the situation dictates and be ready to do whatever it takes to obtain the least-worst outcome for the given situation. Possible emergencies are so varied that there's little more specific advice that can be given I'm afraid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #29 August 7, 2006 QuoteI once exited an Otter at 1200 feet because of an engine problem. The pilot could maintain altitude but didn't want to land with a full load. He turned the green light on early on the downwind jump run because he thought people would be low to exit. We all landed off :-) I'm curious - did people on this load go straight to their reserves? A 1200 foot sub-terminal exit seems to be right at the edge of "spook your AAD" altitude. Just curious how many people ended up following muscle memory and pitching the main anyway."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 37 #30 August 7, 2006 2 people went out on reserve, everyone else went out mains. AADs weren't an issue as the plane never got to 1500 feet so the Cypreses wouldn't have activated anyway... W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #31 August 7, 2006 Quote2 people went out on reserve, everyone else went out mains. AADs weren't an issue as the plane never got to 1500 feet so the Cypreses wouldn't have activated anyway... Good point to emphasize and one that I'm not sure would occur to me in the stress of an aircraft emergency such as the one you were involved in (though it sounds like you were at least able to deploy from a stable aircraft in level flight). With my snively Spectre, my plan if I get out below 1500 is to go straight to my reserve, whether or not the AAD has had a chance to arm itself."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #32 August 8, 2006 I think we all need to remember for that every plane emergency like this where there was a plane problem low, and it crashed killed people... there are dozens of plane problems low that the pilot deadsticked the landing and everyone was fine. i don't want to see people dying or getting injured the next time a c182 has an engine out at 500' and everyone rushes for the door, whacking into the instruments, and deploying too low to live. the reason there is the 1000 or 1500' rule is because you are generally safer riding the plane down rather then trying to exit low. and at 500', seatbelted in, when it suddenly goes uncontrollable, if you think you would have enough time to unbuckle, get up, get to the door and open it, then exit the aircraft, all while it is uncontrolled, you are badly mistaken. don't let one incident change your plane emergency procedures MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #33 August 8, 2006 Agreed ... and the last thing the pilot needs when the fan quits turning is a major change in CG and assholes and armpits bashing controls, climbing the pilot's seat, etc. when attention needs to be focused on finding a place to land. "Any landing you run away from is good enough." said my first flight instructor. You know what that fan thing on the front of the motor is really for? To keep the pilot cool ... 'cause you should see em' sweat when it stops.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #34 August 10, 2006 Depends, too, on the airspeed of the plane. Doing a hop and pop with good forward speed, the canopy opens as you're moving across the sky. From 1500 feet and just exiting the airplane, you have about 13-14 seconds until impact, which is about the same as being at 2400 feet in terminal freefall. I've done a number of hop and pops from 1200 and lower - okay, maybe not a great idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
