killler 2 #26 November 13, 2012 Limited use of nukes is not unthinkable... Iraq used poison gas and got away with it.... I just don't think we can take it off the table... They have been funding attacks against us and Israel for years and years without having a nuke... Killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueblur 0 #27 November 13, 2012 The problem I see is that once they have a nuke, they will also know they are that much closer to having one used on them. The retaliation would escalate that much faster to a nuclear response should they do anything stupid.In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts. - RiggerLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #28 November 13, 2012 Quote Limited use of nukes is not unthinkable... Iraq used poison gas and got away with it.... I just don't think we can take it off the table... No nation has used one since WWII, and there have been no direct wars between two nations with nukes ever. Proxy fights only. I see no reason why this would change with Iran, which is particularly vulnerable (like Israel) to a very small number of bombs. Iran would have feel 100% certain that it could use a bomb without 1) being found responsible or 2) blamed anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #29 November 13, 2012 Quote Add god in to the thinking of anything your f#@ked..... Bingo. The mistake everyone always makes is trying to apply Logic to the Muslim World. They do NOT think like we do. Dying for Allah is the greatest thing they can do. They do not value life as we know it. They laugh that we care and use it against us. They don't care if they are wiped out. It means Allah is returning for them. They have no reason to be scared. Matter of fact they really want to go meet their god so I say lets help arrange the meeting. When you cannot educate you must eradicate... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #30 November 13, 2012 QuoteThe problem I see is that once they have a nuke, they will also know they are that much closer to having one used on them. The retaliation would escalate that much faster to a nuclear response should they do anything stupid. ummm thats kinda what they want......you see they are true belivers unlike the westerners that have foresaken their god muslims are ok with going to meet theirs and bringing about the end game. They dont think it is going to happen they know it and are doing all they can to hurry it up. You can't talk people out of that...damn westerners really are stupid and they sad thing is they know it and we act just as they expect.. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #31 November 13, 2012 >The mistake everyone always makes is trying to apply Logic to the Muslim World. They >do NOT think like we do. The Islamic Republic of Pakistan has had them for 14 years. No surprise nukings yet despite an ongoing low level border war with India. And Kim Jong Il? He was crazy; he'd nuke anyone he could. But six years later, Seoul is still there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #32 November 13, 2012 QuoteI have watched this thread in the hopes that someone here would be more creative. Dropping a nuke on Israel? I think not. What is the real end-game? Get creative. As you wish. It's THIS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #33 November 13, 2012 Quote Bingo. The mistake everyone always makes is trying to apply Logic to the Muslim World. They do NOT think like we do. Dying for Allah is the greatest thing they can do. How many leaders, not minions, have gone out and car bombed? Leaders in the Islam world have it great...why would they risk dying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #34 November 13, 2012 I could see a crude gun barrel nuke used by hamas or one of the other 1/2 doz nutters over there... You need to get away from the shiny new ICBM with a small Hydrogen bomb on top... I think a 1ton van with a old cannon barrel closed off at the end as the tube and two slugs of U-235 and you got a copy of the little boy bomb... And that design is so simple that we never even tested it before use on Japan.... Killler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #35 November 13, 2012 Quote Just having the bomb changes the game.... MAD keeped the world in check for 65 years.. BUT, At the same time we planned to have and use limited tactical nukes ... The first thing to remember is that people do stupid shit all the time... Add god in to the thinking of anything your f#@ked.... I could see Iran thinking that it would get away some what ok after using a nuke on Israel... Killler... And how would they do that without nuking the Palestinians and having fallout and radiation killing and contaminating the Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan? Don't forget where their proxies live. Those are the same proxies on whom they will be depending to take the fight across borders in to Europe and the USA if required. Your argument doesn't stack up.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #36 November 13, 2012 Quote Limited use of nukes is not unthinkable... Iraq used poison gas and got away with it.... I just don't think we can take it off the table... They have been funding attacks against us and Israel for years and years without having a nuke... Killler.... Expand your argument, where and in what scenario do you see Iran deploying limited use of Nukes, in the full knowledge that Israel would not show restraint in use of theirs if hit by a nuke?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #37 November 13, 2012 QuoteThe mistake everyone always makes is trying to apply Logic to the Muslim World. Not true. Don't let your disdain of religion cloud you to the ability of the individual or group. QuoteThey do NOT think like we do. True. But thinking differently does not mean inferior thinking. Allowing your prejudices to sway you into understimating your opponent is a dangerous error. Is religion used to control the masses? When has it not been? Does that mean the leaders are acting without logic or a plan? It would be foolish to assume so.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #38 November 13, 2012 You know little about nuclear weapons I see.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/dc-nuclear-blast-report_n_1382086.html Thought out history leaders have been willing to send their people thru hardships and even death for their own goals... The leadership of Iran will be watching CNN on a widescreen TV in a nice underground bunker when the $hit hits the fan... To think that it's unthinkable for nutters to use a weapon in this case is silly and not inline with known history of past behaviors... The goal of this group of nutters is the removal of israel and jews from the face of the earth... They believe that this is the "WILL of GOD" and must happen... People do CRAZY shit all the time... What makes you think when they get the chance to make the words of GOD come to be, They will not pull the trigger... Will it happen? I don't know... But, History tells me that there is a very good chance it will...Killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueblur 0 #39 November 13, 2012 Quote Quote Just having the bomb changes the game.... MAD keeped the world in check for 65 years.. BUT, At the same time we planned to have and use limited tactical nukes ... The first thing to remember is that people do stupid shit all the time... Add god in to the thinking of anything your f#@ked.... I could see Iran thinking that it would get away some what ok after using a nuke on Israel... Killler... And how would they do that without nuking the Palestinians and having fallout and radiation killing and contaminating the Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan? Don't forget where their proxies live. Those are the same proxies on whom they will be depending to take the fight across borders in to Europe and the USA if required. Your argument doesn't stack up. They would be necessary casualties and martyrs in their eyes I'm sure. A means to an end (of Israel). What really worries me is the "air between the US and Israel" Obama claimed he wanted. I'm not a religious man by any means, but I do know part of the end times story includes Israel standing alone against all nations. We are the big brother and if we turn our backs on Israel, everyone's fucked.In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts. - RiggerLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #40 November 13, 2012 Quote You know little about nuclear weapons I see.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/dc-nuclear-blast-report_n_1382086.html Thought out history leaders have been willing to send their people thru hardships and even death for their own goals... The leadership of Iran will be watching CNN on a widescreen TV in a nice underground bunker when the $hit hits the fan... To think that it's unthinkable for nutters to use a weapon in this case is silly and not inline with known history of past behaviors... The goal of this group of nutters is the removal of israel and jews from the face of the earth... They believe that this is the "WILL of GOD" and must happen... People do CRAZY shit all the time... What makes you think when they get the chance to make the words of GOD come to be, They will not pull the trigger... Will it happen? I don't know... But, History tells me that there is a very good chance it will...Killler.... Wrong and wrong. Also we were discussing Iran Israel now you throw up a article about a Nuke strike on DC?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #41 November 13, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Just having the bomb changes the game.... MAD keeped the world in check for 65 years.. BUT, At the same time we planned to have and use limited tactical nukes ... The first thing to remember is that people do stupid shit all the time... Add god in to the thinking of anything your f#@ked.... I could see Iran thinking that it would get away some what ok after using a nuke on Israel... Killler... And how would they do that without nuking the Palestinians and having fallout and radiation killing and contaminating the Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan? Don't forget where their proxies live. Those are the same proxies on whom they will be depending to take the fight across borders in to Europe and the USA if required. Your argument doesn't stack up. They would be necessary casualties and martyrs in their eyes I'm sure. A means to an end (of Israel). What really worries me is the "air between the US and Israel" Obama claimed he wanted. I'm not a religious man by any means, but I do know part of the end times story includes Israel standing alone against all nations. We are the big brother and if we turn our backs on Israel, everyone's fucked. I must admit that in my logical approach to this scenario I hadn't taken in end times theologyWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #42 November 13, 2012 Quote Quote You know little about nuclear weapons I see.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/dc-nuclear-blast-report_n_1382086.html Thought out history leaders have been willing to send their people thru hardships and even death for their own goals... The leadership of Iran will be watching CNN on a widescreen TV in a nice underground bunker when the $hit hits the fan... To think that it's unthinkable for nutters to use a weapon in this case is silly and not inline with known history of past behaviors... The goal of this group of nutters is the removal of israel and jews from the face of the earth... They believe that this is the "WILL of GOD" and must happen... People do CRAZY shit all the time... What makes you think when they get the chance to make the words of GOD come to be, They will not pull the trigger... Will it happen? I don't know... But, History tells me that there is a very good chance it will...Killler.... Wrong and wrong. Also we were discussing Iran Israel now you throw up a article about a Nuke strike on DC? You didn't see that it was about the use of a gun barrel nuke parked in a van inside a city... i think that is exactly what I said was the most likely use against Israel... Most people would think it was spot on target to this thread.... But , Then again this is speakers corner where facts don't mean $hit and posts are take "WAYOUT' of context... And how would they do that without nuking the Palestinians and having fallout and radiation killing and contaminating the Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan? Don't forget where their proxies live. Those are the same proxies on whom they will be depending to take the fight across borders in to Europe and the USA if required. Your argument doesn't stack up. You think and said the city and all the people around it would be killed and other countries would be f@#ked and .. THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH or FACT, Far from it... Killer... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #43 November 13, 2012 Quote But , Then again this is speakers corner where facts don't mean $hit and posts are take "WAYOUT' of context... the facts are that no bomb has been detonated against an enemy since 1945. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueblur 0 #44 November 13, 2012 [reply I must admit that in my logical approach to this scenario I hadn't taken in end times theology I agree that it isn't in the logic train of thought, but it does make it sound very ominous to say the least!In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts. - RiggerLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #45 November 13, 2012 >I could see a crude gun barrel nuke used by hamas or one of the other 1/2 doz nutters over there... Again, I remember the same predictions being made about North Korea and Pakistan. Nothing happened. >You need to get away from the shiny new ICBM with a small Hydrogen bomb on top >... I think a 1ton van with a old cannon barrel closed off at the end as the tube and two >slugs of U-235 and you got a copy of the little boy bomb. And you need to get away from the idea that that's easy. It's not; your description above misses a lot of important design details. Such a device would likely achieve criticality and destroy the core as the reaction began, giving you a sub-kiloton yield. You could do just as well with conventional explosives mixed with some nuclear waste in a ship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #46 November 13, 2012 If you think that they are smart enough to run and build a complex enrichment plant and "NOT" smart enough to build a U-235 fission bomb copied after the little boy bomb? Because "EVERYONE" else thinks that it is the most likely use of a nuke used by nutters... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy Unlike a fusion bomb that has to stay together long enough to achieve critical mass and more likely to blow itself apart before going "BOOM" Like the North Korean's first test of their pu-239 fission bomb... The nice thing about U-235 in bomb design is that just bring two sub-critical masses together (about 28kg ) will give you a really big bang.. It is guessed that little boy only burned 5% of it u-235 fuel... Killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #47 November 13, 2012 >Because "EVERYONE" else thinks that it is the most likely use of a nuke used >by nutters... Yep. "EVERYONE" else gets most of their information on nuclear weapons from James Bond movies. >The nice thing about U-235 in bomb design is that just bring two sub-critical >masses together (about 28kg ) will give you a really big bang.. Well, you'd get a really small bang (if any) - but the event would be "interesting" enough that you wouldn't be around to figure out what went wrong. As an exercise, consider that there have been 60 accidents over the past 80 years or so where criticality was accidentally achieved. None of them exploded with more than a kiloton of force. They have, however, killed a lot of people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #48 November 13, 2012 I don't thing I made any links to a 007 movie... Lets stick to facts... When I get back home I'll give you all the links to how The cia, nsa, dod. think what is the likely bomb design... Killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #49 November 13, 2012 Quote Lets stick to facts.. If only.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FestivalFox 0 #50 November 13, 2012 Eradicate!!! Are you serious? Every Muslim is an extremist? Iran hasn't directly directly attacked a country in 2000 years, even if they are trying to get a bomb. Who is team america to say that they cant have one. America is the only nation to have detonated a bomb. America attacks a country every decade. Look at Iraq, 120,000 civilian men, women and kids that have been shot, blown up and burned FOR NO REASON. Why go into Iran? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
