Big Business wet dream?

[shah269 0]

Big Business wet dream?
I've been to China twice now. Once when I was very young and just recently. As a child was not all that impressed when compared to Tehran and Tokyo.

And in my recent travel I was even less impressed.
Over all it appeared to be a GOP'ers Big Business wet dream?
Rights what rights?
Clean air? Your problem not ours!
Clean water? You're kidding me right?
Product assurance? Look you bought Tilenol it may or may not work for you!
Transparency? Ok you give us money and maybe you may make some money or you may not.

The long and short of it the people of Shenzhen and Shanghai were very "desperate" you could see it in their eyes. They knew that in the end they were nothing more than soilent green and that the only way to survive was to throw your friend to the animal chasing you.

And reading this article, I couldn't help but laugh.
How dare the US embassy point out that the air is not fit for humans!

Funny thing, was in China for 2 weeks...do you know how many birds I saw? I'll give you a hint it was less than 1!
http://news.yahoo.com/china-tells-us-stop-reporting-beijings-bad-air-055535944--finance.html

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Big Business wet dream?
I've been to China twice now. Once when I was very young and just recently. As a child was not all that impressed when compared to Tehran and Tokyo.

And in my recent travel I was even less impressed.
Over all it appeared to be a GOP'ers Big Business wet dream?
Rights what rights?
Clean air? Your problem not ours!
Clean water? You're kidding me right?
Product assurance? Look you bought Tilenol it may or may not work for you!
Transparency? Ok you give us money and maybe you may make some money or you may not.

The long and short of it the people of Shenzhen and Shanghai were very "desperate" you could see it in their eyes. They knew that in the end they were nothing more than soilent green and that the only way to survive was to throw your friend to the animal chasing you.

And reading this article, I couldn't help but laugh.
How dare the US embassy point out that the air is not fit for humans!

Funny thing, was in China for 2 weeks...do you know how many birds I saw? I'll give you a hint it was less than 1!
http://news.yahoo.com/china-tells-us-stop-reporting-beijings-bad-air-055535944--finance.html

You just love to stir the pot. Your assessment is laughable.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[lawrocket 3]

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Over all it appeared to be a GOP'ers Big Business wet dream?
Rights what rights?
Clean air? Your problem not ours!
Clean water? You're kidding me right?
Product assurance? Look you bought Tilenol it may or may not work for you!
Transparency? Ok you give us money and maybe you may make some money or you may not.

The long and short of it the people of Shenzhen and Shanghai were very "desperate" you could see it in their eyes. They knew that in the end they were nothing more than soilent green and that the only way to survive was to throw your friend to the animal chasing you.

Welcome to Big Government. Welcome to socialism/communism, where the only people who are treated well are foreigners with money.

Think of the environment in public restrooms. Then think of private restrooms. Which is usually better?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[pirana 0]

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You just love to stir the pot. Your assessment is laughable.

Which part(s) do you consider laughable? I know 2 people that each spent several years there recently, and their opinion is basically the same.

China's record on human/civil rights, pollution, and quality control are what's laughable.

Maybe the jump to politicizing them by calling those qualities a Big Business Wet Dream could be argued - but the measure of those qualities in themselves is proven.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[lawrocket 3]

Indeed. There is zero doubt that China is a filthy place. But this is what happens when the people are under the rule of the government.

Shah is correct that China is a big business wet dream, so long as that big business is government. Where are the capitalists in China? In the bureaucracy. "But lawrocket, how can you call the bureaucrats capitalists?" Because the bureaucrats are the ones who control the wealth and direct it where they want it to go.

Most traditional capitalists used their money. Many others formed consortia of investors to do things. But in China (as in the US (see Solyndra)) the bureaucrats control where the money goes. They are unchecked by their citizens, for complaining can result in some lengthy prison sentences.

Chinese cities are, in a very real sense, like OWS encampments. Filthy. Smoke filled. Stinky.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shah269 0]

Where are the capitalists in China?
Your kidding me right?
I mean you are really kidding me with this one?
Have you been there? Have you walked the streets? Visited any of the factories? Studied a little about the place or are you just ....... well...... Fauxed out of your mind?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[ManagingPrime 0]

.....

Did not take long at all for this to become a Teabagger vs. Occupussies discussion.

http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/2011/10/divided-conquered-tea-baggers-vs.html

Speakers corner, other blog comment sections, it's always a bunch of people with above average intelligence who can't see the forest through the trees....sad really.

[Rstanley0312 0]

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You just love to stir the pot. Your assessment is laughable.

Which part(s) do you consider laughable? I know 2 people that each spent several years there recently, and their opinion is basically the same.

China's record on human/civil rights, pollution, and quality control are what's laughable.

Maybe the jump to politicizing them by calling those qualities a Big Business Wet Dream could be argued - but the measure of those qualities in themselves is proven.

The latter and adding that it is what the right is or wants.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Where are the capitalists in China?
Your kidding me right?
I mean you are really kidding me with this one?
Have you been there? Have you walked the streets? Visited any of the factories? Studied a little about the place or are you just ....... well...... Fauxed out of your mind?

Yup.... I've been there.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[shah269 0]

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Where are the capitalists in China?
Your kidding me right?
I mean you are really kidding me with this one?
Have you been there? Have you walked the streets? Visited any of the factories? Studied a little about the place or are you just ....... well...... Fauxed out of your mind?

Yup.... I've been there.

Communist in name only right!
The number of major fortune 500 companies that are over there is amazing! And polution controll on any of the factories is....0 because no one in the government cares.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Shah is correct that China is a big business wet dream, so long as that big business is government. Where are the capitalists in China? In the bureaucracy. "But lawrocket, how can you call the bureaucrats capitalists?" Because the bureaucrats are the ones who control the wealth and direct it where they want it to go.

there is plenty of private businessmen in China and they're doing extremely well. But it's similar to the money elite in Russia - they better stay on good terms with the government or they may suddenly be thrown in jail for some trumped up charge.

[lawrocket 3]

You nailed it. It's really convenient to point the finger at big busniess. But who is really running things? It aint big business.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,434]

>Welcome to Big Government.

Too bad they don't have any of that evil EPA flavor of Big Government.

[Rstanley0312 0]

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>Welcome to Big Government.

Too bad they don't have any of that evil EPA flavor of Big Government.

lol... I do not think the idea of the EPA is evil I do think our EPA is evil. Way too much power and too many regulations. We need some but right now we have too many and there are more to come. W do not want to be like China but I sure don't want the US to continue down this path. Our EPA has stated it clearly... they are trying to kill the coal industry and as fast as they can. Barry O is a big fan of that too and they do not care about the impact on coal areas at all.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[billvon 2,434]

>I do not think the idea of the EPA is evil I do think our EPA is evil. Way too much
>power and too many regulations.

Take away its power and cut the number of regulations and it would be much friendlier to business. It would, in fact, look a lot like China's Ministry of Environmental Protection. Coal power a problem? Here in the US the solution is to require cleaner coal plants. Result - our air is pretty clean. In China the solution is a hefty bribe to the Ministry. Result - some of the worst air on the planet.

[shah269 0]

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You nailed it. It's really convenient to point the finger at big busniess. But who is really running things? It aint big business.

In China?
Been there?
Talked to the people?
I'll give you a hint, big business

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lawrocket 3]

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>Welcome to Big Government.

Too bad they don't have any of that evil EPA flavor of Big Government.

Exactly. A flavor of EPA isn't that bad. It's kinda like the flavor of cinnamon - it's mighty nice but a spoonful of the ground stuff will jack you up.

The EPA has served a very useful purpose and continues to serve that purpose. The Clean Air Act has served a useful purpose and continues to serve a useful purpose - control the pollution of the commons. The air is a commons and will be fouled.

The issue is that Clean Air Act has worked. And when problems get solved (or heavily mitigated) there is no joy or glory in maintenance. Thus, new issues must be found. The EPA's job is to regulate. So find a problem and propose a rule to regulate it. Dust from farms? Okay. That's a big baddie. We never thought so before, but we now think that if a tractor is riding a dirt road that something should be done to keep the dirt on the ground.

Look at what's happened with water in California. The effect on all species except humans is considered.

China has none of this problem, of course. The people of China are just subjects. Peasants, really. Here we have it, but somewhat of the opposite approach. It's always nice to see some balance - some real attention paid to cost-benefit on all sides.

One thing gingrich said that I like was to re-name is the "Environmental Solution Agency."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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I'll give you a hint, big business

So there is no government there and big business runs China?

Got it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shah269 0]

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I'll give you a hint, big business

So there is no government there and big business runs China?

Got it.

Big Business is the government in China.
Hard to explain in under a million words but here is how it works.
Say GE wants to open up a facility in China? They did, it's nice! Got to see it! No plution controlls at all!

They can do so as long as a few communist leaders are hired in key rolls and X number of people are hired.

So in a way big business is the government. Since the communist leaders hired by GE now are a part of the "GE Family" and are paid according to how well the company does.

And what's more important? How much money the communist leaders make or how foul the water and air are?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lawrocket 3]

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They can do so as long as a few communist leaders are hired in key rolls and X number of people are hired.

So what was it I mentioned about the capitalists in China? They are the communist bureaucrats in it for themselves.

In order for the businesses to open in China they need to pay the piper. The businesses don't run things. The state does. Don't want to pay kickbacks? Then no doing business there.

You proved my point. Government is the biggest business out there. It's the biggest racket.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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lol... I do not think the idea of the EPA is evil I do think our EPA is evil. Way too much power and too many regulations. We need some but right now we have too many and there are more to come. W do not want to be like China but I sure don't want the US to continue down this path. Our EPA has stated it clearly... they are trying to kill the coal industry and as fast as they can. Barry O is a big fan of that too and they do not care about the impact on coal areas at all.

China is the opposite - so much coal is used for power generation that in some cities (Xi'an for example), the air quality is so bad that your eyes hurt. You can feel the pollution on your eyeball! Can't imagine doing any level of physical exertion that would get you breathing hard. Even sex would hurt. Maybe it's birth control.

[billvon 2,434]

>The issue is that Clean Air Act has worked. And when problems get solved (or heavily
>mitigated) there is no joy or glory in maintenance. Thus, new issues must be found.
>The EPA's job is to regulate. So find a problem and propose a rule to regulate it.

I agree that any governmental agency must be constrained as to its power. However, it also must have enough teeth to do its job. And while there have been excesses in the EPA (as there have been in every government organization) it has done an excellent job of cleaning up the US while not damaging industries.

In the 1970's car companies said that the EPA would bankrupt them. They claimed that CAFE regulations would require every American to drive sub-subcompact cars. The oil companies claimed that heeding environmental regulations would make it impossible to drill for oil in the US. Coal companies claimed that complying with particulate and SOx limits would make power unaffordable for most Americans.

Yet here we are today with much cleaner skies, lots of SUV's and RV's driving the roads, record production of petroleum products, and relatively cheap power. We've done pretty well when you look at the alternative.

>Look at what's happened with water in California. The effect on all species
>except humans is considered.

Given that the (human) population of California has grown at a record rate over the past 50 years - and given that they've had enough water to fill their swimming pools and water their golf courses - I tend to doubt that. Are we getting very careful with what we do with water? Definitely. Are we "not considering people?" Nonsense. Indeed, the reason we have water shortages is those 37 million people are using about 20 TRILLION of gallons of water a year, primarily agricultural. Heck, the Colorado River doesn't even reach the ocean any more. We use it all.

If we cared about all species except people there would be a lot of people dying of thirst out here, because there's not a whole lot of water in Southern California. And we DEFINITELY wouldn't have golf courses.

[lawrocket 3]

I disagree with little of what you've said. But!

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>Look at what's happened with water in California. The effect on all species
>except humans is considered.

Given that the (human) population of California has grown at a record rate over the past 50 years - and given that they've had enough water to fill their swimming pools and water their golf courses - I tend to doubt that.

In may, 2010, a federal judge here in Fresno ruled that water regulations must consider human factors along with fish concerns.

http://www.acwa.com/sites/default/files/news/endangered-invasive-species/2010/05/09cv407-smelt-pi-fofcol-final.pdf

See Pages 122-125. "FWS and Reclamation have not complied with NEPA. This prevented in-depth analysis of the potential RPA actions through a properly focused study to identify and select alternative remedial measures that minimize jeopardy to affected humans and their communities, as well as protecting the threatened species. No party has suggested that humans and their environment are less deserving of protection that the species."

"Nonetheless, FWS and Reclamation, as the consulting and action agencies, must take a hard look under NEPA at the severe consequences visited upon Plaintiffs, the water supply of California, the agricultural industry, and the residents and communities impacted by water supply limitations imposed by the Component 2."

What Judge Wanger did was order the government to consider the effects on humans, which was not done. the effects on 20 million people that the diversion of water had.

Are we not considering people? We weren't, bill. That's exactly what the judge found to be wrong with the government's decisions. And I do not think this is unique.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,434]

>In may, 2010, a federal judge here in Fresno ruled that water regulations must
>consider human factors along with fish concerns.

So pumping over a trillion gallons of water out of a wetland and delivering it to people and farms is "not considering human factors?" Interesting take.

>Are we not considering people? We weren't, bill.

If we weren't considering people we wouldn't be pumping any water out of that delta. We'd leave it all for the fish.

[shah269 0]

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In order for the businesses to open in China they need to pay the piper. The businesses don't run things. The state does. Don't want to pay kickbacks? Then no doing business there.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh no.

The pay is that they give these Communist leaders jobs put them in a nice office and forget about them. Then they run like nutters doing all the things they can't do here to make products for you to by at Wallyworld.

They run the country, every now and again they call up the guy they hired and tell them that for the good of the company and the nation they must do XYandZ.

Thus why you can't drink the water in China or breathe the air and for the most part....the food you eat...well let's just say it's not what they say it is.

I know you guys have this thought that big business will do things better faster cheaper and all the while keep you safe from bad products. That is true only in a hypothetical world where there are infinite number of choices for you to choose from. And where those that produced an inferior product loose customers and thus have to provide a good and service that is up to the standards of the customer.

But we don't live in that world. There ar a finite number of goods and services produced by a even more finite number of producers. So if you don't like it....tough shit! Eat it and die!

Don't believe me? Go look at lap tops? How many choices do you really have with the support structure that meets your needs? Two maybe three. The same for food and the same for medication.

In a perfect world yes business could and would work to provide you the best product at the lowest price....but in this world we live in of big business? Your kidding your self if you think big business gives a flaming rats ass about if you live or die using their product or service.

For them it's just the price of doing buisines.
Sorry buddy, you are no more than a $50k loss at best!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!