Build a basement survival shelter - have your house seized by the government

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Multi-level bunker found under East Austin home

Jose Del Rio, a Vietnam War veteran, built a multi-level underground structure about 20 to 25 feet below the home. Code enforcement officials visited the home after receiving a complaint of possible excavation there. The city filled in the basement with concrete, and billed Mr. Del Rio $90,000 for the work. They then fenced off his property, and cut off the electricity, making it uninhabitable. Mr. Del Rio is out a $172,000 home because someone didn't like his basement...

Stories:
1) Austin Statesman
2) Austin Statesman
3) InfoWars
4) Reason

The "suspicious 55-gallon barrels" were empty. Great for emergency water storage though.
The seized firearms were returned because they were all legal.
The grenades were inert - just harmless souvenirs, no more dangerous than a rock.
Lead acid batteries? Yeah, like the one in your car, for emergency lighting or radio.
Compressed gas tanks? Yeah, like for your Coleman camp stove for cooking.

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

[normiss 737]

This is right in line with building codes and permits.
What's the issue?

[devildog 0]

Quote

This is right in line with building codes and permits.
What's the issue?

Permit investigations usually don't result in this:

***The officials said the visit triggered plans to execute a warrant at the home and have Austin police and fire personnel, including members of the police SWAT team, police bomb squad and Austin Fire’s search and rescue operations team, do a full sweep of the home, Matthews said.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[billvon 2,792]

Sounds like the city condemned the home after determining it was unsafe. I have no idea whether it really was, but a house supported party by "automotive parts" might have some structural issues.

[normiss 737]

They do when they find the questionable items they found in this case.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Round Rock structural engineer Jeffrey Tucker, whom Del Rio hired when he was putting in the 9-foot concrete and steel rebar retaining wall, said he inspected the wall and the rest of the house in 2009.

"It appeared it was structurally safe," Tucker said Monday. "I did not see anything that indicated it would fall in."

The Texas Constitution says "no person's property shall be taken, damaged or destroyed without adequate compensation being made, unless by the consent of such person."

The proper way to enforce code is to have a building inspector visit the property and also to check and make sure the proper permits have been issued. Not to have a SWAT Team show up and terrorize an old man who is a Vietnam War Veteran.

[billvon 2,792]

>The proper way to enforce code is to have a building inspector visit the
>property and also to check and make sure the proper permits have been
>issued.

And then condemn it if it has egregious code violations that make continued habitation dangerous.

>Not to have a SWAT Team show up and terrorize an old man who is a
>Vietnam War Veteran.

That seems like a completely separate issue. The police got involved because of neighbor's complaints, which led to a code inspection, which uncovered evidence that led to the SWAT team. Finding a grenade, for example, seems like a good reason to have a police investigation to determine if it's a real grenade. I wouldn't want code inspectors screwing around with grenades if they found them in a bunker.

The result was that they did not discover anything amiss. All the weapons were returned to him and no charges were filed.

(I have a hard time believing that a Vietnam war veteran is going to be "terrorized" by either police or a code inspector.)

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>The proper way to enforce code is to have a building inspector visit the
>property and also to check and make sure the proper permits have been
>issued.

And then condemn it if it has egregious code violations that make continued habitation dangerous.

>Not to have a SWAT Team show up and terrorize an old man who is a
>Vietnam War Veteran.

That seems like a completely separate issue. The police got involved because of neighbor's complaints, which led to a code inspection, which uncovered evidence that led to the SWAT team. Finding a grenade, for example, seems like a good reason to have a police investigation to determine if it's a real grenade. I wouldn't want code inspectors screwing around with grenades if they found them in a bunker.

The result was that they did not discover anything amiss. All the weapons were returned to him and no charges were filed.

(I have a hard time believing that a Vietnam war veteran is going to be "terrorized" by either police or a code inspector.)

I must have missed the part where the building inspectors issued code violations.

[billvon 2,792]

>I must have missed the part where the building inspectors issued
>code violations.

From the article:

=======
The city billed Del Rio in April for about $90,000 in repairs it said were critical to make the home on Canterbury Street safe . . .

Actions taken by the City at 2006 Canterbury St. were done due to a public safety risk caused by the structure located on the property.
=======

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

The proper way to enforce code is to have a building inspector visit the property and also to check and make sure the proper permits have been issued. Not to have a SWAT Team show up and terrorize an old man who is a Vietnam War Veteran.

What is Round Rock? A hired engineer does not make up for the lack of the permit and non partisan building inspection.

I feel like the articles glossed over the timeline a bit, so I'm reluctant to draw any conclusions about heavy handedness.

A couple years ago in SF we did have an incident where someone was doing substantial work on his home up to the point where it collapsed and damaged nearby properties. A multilevel basement certainly raises concern.

[devildog 0]

Quote

They do when they find the questionable items they found in this case.

legal firearms, empty barrels, and memorabilia are questionable now? Wow. Might as well let the govt come in and search any house at any time. I'm sure we could find some questionable items in your home too.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[billvon 2,792]

>legal firearms, empty barrels, and memorabilia are questionable now?

Hand grenades definitely are.

[normiss 737]

When a city building inspector enters your home and spots a hand grenade, how the hell is he supposed to know if it's inert, real, a bar of soap carved by a hardened criminal in an effort to scare his way out of a situation, or a simple anal butt plug?
I pulled permits on the work I'm doing.
I expect (and make) appointments for inspections as my work progresses.
I'm smart enough to hide my grenades before they get here.

I think BV has expressed my perspective in a significantly higher brow than I will today.

I tired of dealing with stupidity today.

[devildog 0]

Real handgrenades, yes. Inert ones? No way. They're pretty obvious when they are. The bottoms are drilled out and the fuses are removed.

Might as well give full rights to shut down, search and seize from any business or home that has one of those gag "Complaint Department: Take a number" grenades sitting on the front desk.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>legal firearms, empty barrels, and memorabilia are questionable now?

Hand grenades definitely are.

And if there was any whiff of hydrocarbons on those barrels, it becomes a bit more of a concern then an empty water barrel. As a bomb shelter, seems more likely these would be fuel containers to feed the generator.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>I must have missed the part where the building inspectors issued
>code violations.

From the article:

=======
The city billed Del Rio in April for about $90,000 in repairs it said were critical to make the home on Canterbury Street safe . . .

Actions taken by the City at 2006 Canterbury St. were done due to a public safety risk caused by the structure located on the property.
=======

I think the $90k was for pouring concrete in the hole after the invasion. At least that's the way i read it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>legal firearms, empty barrels, and memorabilia are questionable now?

Hand grenades definitely are.

You can buy those at almost any Army Surplus Store. Many people use them as paperweights.

Sounds like the city is struggling to come up with a justification to me.

[devildog 0]

Quote

Quote

>legal firearms, empty barrels, and memorabilia are questionable now?

Hand grenades definitely are.

And if there was any whiff of hydrocarbons on those barrels, it becomes a bit more of a concern then an empty water barrel. As a bomb shelter, seems more likely these would be fuel containers to feed the generator.

OMG! Someone storing gas for a generator? Quick! Throw him in Gitmo! Since when has storing gasoline been illegal? When has having a generator been illegal?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

OMG! Someone storing gas for a generator? Quick! Throw him in Gitmo! Since when has storing gasoline been illegal? When has having a generator been illegal?

No one said anything about generators being illegal, though you'd be amazed at the requirements around installations in a commercial setting.

There are proper ways to store gasoline, and reckless ways.

There are far too few facts in evidence here for people to be so much in arms. You and others prefer to presume another ATF Waco style raid.

[normiss 737]

A builder was just telling me the other day about a conversation he overheard at the building dept office.
Two inspectors that have been keeping a close eye on a non-permitted remodel. They were waiting for the work to get to about $200,000 before they would shut the site down, require all that work to be torn down, then a permit applied for.


As much as I disagree with some of the permitting, licensing, and what work one can and can't do on their own home.....they are what is currently in place.
If I want the basement bomb shelter under my house, it has to be accomplished with engineering drawings from a licensed engineer, the proper permits, and licensed contractors on various areas, not to mention a review of the parts used to make sure everything is in accordance with ALL codes at time of work.

Bet if Mr Survivalist was smart enough to take the legal path, this would never have been an issue.

[kallend 1,882]

Quote

A builder was just telling me the other day about a conversation he overheard at the building dept office.
Two inspectors that have been keeping a close eye on a non-permitted remodel. They were waiting for the work to get to about $200,000 before they would shut the site down, require all that work to be torn down, then a permit applied for.


As much as I disagree with some of the permitting, licensing, and what work one can and can't do on their own home.....they are what is currently in place.
If I want the basement bomb shelter under my house, it has to be accomplished with engineering drawings from a licensed engineer, the proper permits, and licensed contractors on various areas, not to mention a review of the parts used to make sure everything is in accordance with ALL codes at time of work.

Bet if Mr Survivalist was smart enough to take the legal path, this would never have been an issue.

+1, but I expect Mr. Survivalist is also Mr. Government Conspiracy Theorist so that approach would never happen.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Bet if Mr Survivalist was smart enough to take the legal path, this would never have been an issue.

This.

My wife is a licensed civil engineer with a graduate degree in engineering (geo-tech). She sees this sort of crap fairly often. Not survivalists building bunkers necessarily, but people building all sorts of stuff that just flat out isn't safe. Most of the times the local building code doesn't even come close to what is actually needed from an engineering stand point. They cover the absolute bare minimum.

With the soils in my part of Texas, if I found out a neighbor had dug out a large basement structure under his home, I would be furious. Lawyer up furious, since the integrity of my home would now be in significant danger. My home may not collapse due to it, but the soil shift could cause major foundation problems that the home wasn't designed for.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[normiss 737]

Very good point.

For some reason I don't consider that perspective.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

There are far too few facts in evidence here for people to be so much in arms. You and others prefer to presume another ATF Waco style raid.

Yeah, because SWAT always shows up for building code violations.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,792]

>Real handgrenades, yes. Inert ones? No way. They're pretty obvious when
>they are. The bottoms are drilled out and the fuses are removed.

Personally, if a building code inspector finds something that looks like a hand grenade in the house next to mine, I want him to leave it alone and call someone who knows a fake hand grenade from a real one.

>Might as well give full rights to shut down, search and seize from any
>business or home that has one of those gag "Complaint Department:
>Take a number" grenades sitting on the front desk.

And might as well give cops the right to shoot a kid with a fake gun without risking a murder charge.