sacex250 0 #26 December 4, 2011 Quote Any excuse for them to riffle through your bags RIFLES?Who would be stupid enough to let TSA have rifles?It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #27 December 5, 2011 QuoteI don't know that there is anyone out there who knows all the rules of TSA... Well, they did inadvertantly publish a screening manual online a couple years ago so that's somewhere to start I suppose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #28 December 5, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote They don't even know what a replica gun is! I watched them protect an entire planeload of passengers by disarming a kids 9" GI Joe. Apparently a 2" plastic M-60 still qualifies as a replica. I saw the same behavior, at Charleston, SC, over a key chain that had a two inch, bright orange and yellow Buck Rodgers space pistol on it as a fob. Perhaps pre employment interviews at TSA should be ramped up a notch or so... to include a common sense category. What's even cooler is when I get upgraded to first class I (sometimes) get to enjoy a half-way decent meal. It comes complete with a nice linen napkin set that contains a set of metal tableware (knife included). Yup....... The airport at Miami has a restaurant, after the TSA check point, that also supplies metal FORKS, KNIVES, AND SPOONS. Go figure, I can't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 325 #29 December 5, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote They don't even know what a replica gun is! I watched them protect an entire planeload of passengers by disarming a kids 9" GI Joe. Apparently a 2" plastic M-60 still qualifies as a replica. I saw the same behavior, at Charleston, SC, over a key chain that had a two inch, bright orange and yellow Buck Rodgers space pistol on it as a fob. Perhaps pre employment interviews at TSA should be ramped up a notch or so... to include a common sense category. What's even cooler is when I get upgraded to first class I (sometimes) get to enjoy a half-way decent meal. It comes complete with a nice linen napkin set that contains a set of metal tableware (knife included). I actually welcome the slow return to sanity. About a year ago I started getting metal cutlery on the flight regularly (BA). Have also seen the gradual return of metal cutlery in airports. I am sorry but I am often wary of these people who have problems with TSA etc. I travel alot and so far haven't had problems. I do wonder if these people are attention whores, who tell half a story. I have seen minor stupidity and quite often rudeness. I hate Chicago for their stupidity. I saw them make a young foreign kid, who was possibly 6-10 years old go through the passport check alone. He couldn't speak english was obviously distressed at being separated from his mother. But the SIGN said one person at a time. Also at Chicago stupid TSA wench suddenly starts screaming and clapping. Long queue of rather irate people, but some celebrity had arrived at the back of the queue. They queue jumped whoever the hell it was and fast tracked him throughAt Fort Worth airport I asked the TSA agent about a 30cm firelighter that looked like an M16 that our boys had bought. She said it wasn't a problem at all and not to worry. Only an idiot would be concerned with it.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #30 December 5, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote They don't even know what a replica gun is! I watched them protect an entire planeload of passengers by disarming a kids 9" GI Joe. Apparently a 2" plastic M-60 still qualifies as a replica. I saw the same behavior, at Charleston, SC, over a key chain that had a two inch, bright orange and yellow Buck Rodgers space pistol on it as a fob. Perhaps pre employment interviews at TSA should be ramped up a notch or so... to include a common sense category. What's even cooler is when I get upgraded to first class I (sometimes) get to enjoy a half-way decent meal. It comes complete with a nice linen napkin set that contains a set of metal tableware (knife included). I actually welcome the slow return to sanity. About a year ago I started getting metal cutlery on the flight regularly (BA). Have also seen the gradual return of metal cutlery in airports. I am sorry but I am often wary of these people who have problems with TSA etc. I travel alot and so far haven't had problems. I do wonder if these people are attention whores, who tell half a story. I have seen minor stupidity and quite often rudeness. I hate Chicago for their stupidity. I saw them make a young foreign kid, who was possibly 6-10 years old go through the passport check alone. He couldn't speak english was obviously distressed at being separated from his mother. But the SIGN said one person at a time. Also at Chicago stupid TSA wench suddenly starts screaming and clapping. Long queue of rather irate people, but some celebrity had arrived at the back of the queue. They queue jumped whoever the hell it was and fast tracked him throughAt Fort Worth airport I asked the TSA agent about a 30cm firelighter that looked like an M16 that our boys had bought. She said it wasn't a problem at all and not to worry. Only an idiot would be concerned with it. While I don't hate any place, we agree that common sense should be restored. I do thank the TSA for one incident I witnessed. At Dulles AP outside Washington, DC, my wife and I saw a very well endowed, attractive young lady attempt to remove her outer garment, a pullover sweater, and proceeded to disrobe completely, from the waist up, except for a very sheer bra. Great viewing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 325 #31 December 5, 2011 Quote While I don't hate any place, we agree that common sense should be restored. I do thank the TSA for one incident I witnessed. At Dulles AP outside Washington, DC, my wife and I saw a very well endowed, attractive young lady attempt to remove her outer garment, a sweater, and proceeded to disrobe completely, from the waist up, except for a very sheer bra. Great viewing. Why do I always lose out on these events?Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #32 December 5, 2011 Quote Quote While I don't hate any place, we agree that common sense should be restored. I do thank the TSA for one incident I witnessed. At Dulles AP outside Washington, DC, my wife and I saw a very well endowed, attractive young lady attempt to remove her outer garment, a sweater, and proceeded to disrobe completely, from the waist up, except for a very sheer bra. Great viewing. Why do I always lose out on these events? You gotta stay focused........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #33 December 5, 2011 Recently opted out of pornoscanner. Search was actually no more personal than others have been over time. Now, although I despise the subhumans with the TSA I actually got an ok one that seemed to be more or less still human. Reassembling my kit when cleared, I hear some distinguished looking southern gent suddenly bark, loudly. He was pissed off at possible glasses breakage, began ranting. I watched, half expecting a swat team takedown. They handled him fairly coolly actually, came over talked to him instead of going robotic authoritarian and acting threatening. "My" TSA guy starts to walk off, gent is still grumbling, sometimes loudly. My guy turns around "What was that?" "I'm LOOKING for my BELT!" "The one you're wearing?" (zing!) Look on the guy's face was priceless. Score one for the TSA guys! Normally I'm not a fan of theirs but I hadda admit that was well played. I walked away laughing... -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #34 December 5, 2011 Quote Recently opted out of pornoscanner. Search was actually no more personal than others have been over time. Now, although I despise the subhumans with the TSA I actually got an ok one that seemed to be more or less still human. Reassembling my kit when cleared, I hear some distinguished looking southern gent suddenly bark, loudly. He was pissed off at possible glasses breakage, began ranting. I watched, half expecting a swat team takedown. They handled him fairly coolly actually, came over talked to him instead of going robotic authoritarian and acting threatening. "My" TSA guy starts to walk off, gent is still grumbling, sometimes loudly. My guy turns around "What was that?" "I'm LOOKING for my BELT!" "The one you're wearing?" (zing!) Look on the guy's face was priceless. Score one for the TSA guys! Normally I'm not a fan of theirs but I hadda admit that was well played. I walked away laughing... -B Karma, eh..? Why would you opt out of the scanner. Personally, I volunteer/request to go in the sniffer booth and all the other gizmo's. Breaks up the boredom. While I disclaim being an exhibitionist, I see no drawbacks, medically, morally or ethically. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #35 December 5, 2011 Why? Backbone, thats why. Defiance. And I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. The entire purpose of the charade is to acclimate americans to submission and obedience and the idea that their so-called "inalienable rights" don't apply "whenever we feel like it". The TSA has openly admitted that the purpose of the "enhanced" patdown is to "encourage compliance" with the scanners. In other words, to coerce compliance by discomfort, intimidation and humiliation. Which they do to people with great enthusiasm. None of which does jack shit. Anyone with the slightest degree of intelligence and creativity could get a double dozen bladed or striking weapons past these guys in one shot. It is not possible to disarm an intelligent human being. The entire thing is a bad joke... after that security check I stopped by a bookstore where they sold me juice in a thickwalled glass bottle. Instant bloody barfight to any and all who might think of it. Aside from the ease of getting weapons aboard, they provide plenty for purchase at the gate. I felt quite secure knowing they had willingly legally and openly sold me the "weapon" with which to defend myself should any actual terrorists make it onboard. If any terrorists want to make a point, they could assemble a team of say, 6 or 7 guys, shave businesssuit and Westernize them, get em all on the same flight and have em buy juice before boarding. Given a helpless planeful of fat apathetic americans, half a dozen guys with broken bottles could theoretically slaughter everyone on board by landing. The only way to resist the kind of stupid totalitarianism the TSA's policies represent is to actually RESIST. Decline to cooperate. So When I finally encountered the dread pornoscanner for the first time, as I put my bags on the belt I had a deep moment of introspection where I asked myself if I was gonna be a sheep, submit, obey and go-along-to-get-along or was I gonna back up my attitude and take a stand? "Opt Out." I said. I noticed the body language of the other opt-outs nearby. Hunched shoulders, scared, timid. I looked my TSA guys in the eyes and stood up straight, acted like I owned the place, carried myself like I was untouchable and nothing they could do was gonna bother me. The parachute and wingsuit especially fascinated them and backed up my attitude. They kept the search quick and professional. No actual crotch grab, no jamming hands into my pants, no bullshit at all. They were quite polite, as was I. In return I gave them no hassle at all either. I got a growing theory that the people having trouble with the TSA get it because they expect it and/or provoke it. I cop an attitude like freaking at the checkpoint is beneath me and they haven't seriously hassled me yet. -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #36 December 5, 2011 Quote Why? Backbone, thats why. Defiance. And I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. The entire purpose of the charade is to acclimate americans to submission and obedience and the idea that their so-called "inalienable rights" don't apply "whenever we feel like it". The TSA has openly admitted that the purpose of the "enhanced" patdown is to "encourage compliance" with the scanners. In other words, to coerce compliance by discomfort, intimidation and humiliation. Which they do to people with great enthusiasm. None of which does jack shit. Anyone with the slightest degree of intelligence and creativity could get a double dozen bladed or striking weapons past these guys in one shot. It is not possible to disarm an intelligent human being. The entire thing is a bad joke... after that security check I stopped by a bookstore where they sold me juice in a thickwalled glass bottle. Instant bloody barfight to any and all who might think of it. Aside from the ease of getting weapons aboard, they provide plenty for purchase at the gate. I felt quite secure knowing they had willingly legally and openly sold me the "weapon" with which to defend myself should any actual terrorists make it onboard. If any terrorists want to make a point, they could assemble a team of say, 6 or 7 guys, shave businesssuit and Westernize them, get em all on the same flight and have em buy juice before boarding. Given a helpless planeful of fat apathetic americans, half a dozen guys with broken bottles could theoretically slaughter everyone on board by landing. The only way to resist the kind of stupid totalitarianism the TSA's policies represent is to actually RESIST. Decline to cooperate. So When I finally encountered the dread pornoscanner for the first time, as I put my bags on the belt I had a deep moment of introspection where I asked myself if I was gonna be a sheep, submit, obey and go-along-to-get-along or was I gonna back up my attitude and take a stand? "Opt Out." I said. I noticed the body language of the other opt-outs nearby. Hunched shoulders, scared, timid. I looked my TSA guys in the eyes and stood up straight, acted like I owned the place, carried myself like I was untouchable and nothing they could do was gonna bother me. The parachute and wingsuit especially fascinated them and backed up my attitude. They kept the search quick and professional. No actual crotch grab, no jamming hands into my pants, no bullshit at all. They were quite polite, as was I. In return I gave them no hassle at all either. I got a growing theory that the people having trouble with the TSA get it because they expect it and/or provoke it. I cop an attitude like freaking at the checkpoint is beneath me and they haven't seriously hassled me yet. -B Outstanding...! True pioneer spirit. Last July, we were in St. Croix. I was doubled over with laughter at the look on my wifes' face as she was getting patted down. Priceless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #37 December 5, 2011 After further reflection, and discussion with the voices in my head, I have decided that you have converted me.!!! I shall now opt out. ( Besides, I've already been thru all the usual TSA machinery, anyway.) Thx...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #38 December 5, 2011 >They kept the search quick and professional. No actual crotch grab, >no jamming hands into my pants, no bullshit at all. They were quite polite, as >was I. In return I gave them no hassle at all either. So they wanted you to submit to an invasive patdown and you meekly complied with their demands. You want to make a difference? Refuse any search. Period. If everyone followed your lead the searches would end within a month. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #39 December 5, 2011 Quote>They kept the search quick and professional. No actual crotch grab, >no jamming hands into my pants, no bullshit at all. They were quite polite, as >was I. In return I gave them no hassle at all either. So they wanted you to submit to an invasive patdown and you meekly complied with their demands. You want to make a difference? Refuse any search. Period. If everyone followed your lead the searches would end within a month. One small issue...... " TSA Passenger Security Checkpoints A Three Step Process You must pass through this checkpoint to access your departure gate. Security Officers will screen you and your carry-on baggage. You should find this screening process familiar, although enhanced security measures are in place. Travelers may now carry through security checkpoints travel-size toiletries (3 ounces or less) that fit comfortably in ONE, QUART-SIZE, clear plastic, zip-top bag. Read more about this new security procedure and the items included. If you refuse to be screened at any point during the screening process, the Security Officer will deny you entry beyond the screening area. You will not be able to fly." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #40 December 5, 2011 Choose your battles. Blanket refusal means not to fly. And they own the game board. They -wanted- me to submit to being intimately x-rayed under threat of a search intended to humiliate the subject into compliance. I called em on it by my actions. And, nice spin by the way. Nothing "meek" in my actions. That was the point. Meek would be acting cowed by the whole thing. I suspect they keep a list of all opt-outs, logged as "uncooperative subjects". If I have to be on a list I'll take that one.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertAttorney 0 #41 December 5, 2011 I'll just wear a kilt and let them juggle my nuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #42 December 5, 2011 >If you refuse to be screened at any point during the screening process, the Security >Officer will deny you entry beyond the screening area. You will not be able to fly. Exactly. A week of this and every airline executive in the US will be screaming at the top of his lungs for the government to DO SOMETHING! They will air TV ads saying "Here at American we value your right to fly, but the TSA is keeping you on the ground. Contact your representative if you want to fly over the upcoming Christmas holiday." The Wall Street Journal will analyze just how much the TSA is damaging the economy by shutting down the airlines. What will people do? People will start driving, taking the bus or taking the train. Those who must fly will do so via chartered flights operating out of non-TSA-administered airports. Those companies will make millions and will start hiring all the out of work pilots from American who can no longer find jobs. Airport authorities, local police, pilots, mechanics, even the people who work the snack bars will do everything in their power to keep the TSA out of the non-administered airport. A month or so of this and the TSA will discover that it has some alternatives to the current screening process. Of course the above will inconvenience people and so will never happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #43 December 5, 2011 >Choose your battles. Blanket refusal means not to fly. And they own the game board. No, WE own the game board. They work for us. And they were put there at our request, because we asked the government to step in and protect us from the evil terrorists. If you want them to do what you want you might have to do more than choose which invasive search they use on you. >They -wanted- me to submit to being intimately x-rayed under threat of a >search intended to humiliate the subject into compliance. So instead they got you to submit to a more invasive, personal and humiliating search while making you think you were brave. Sounds like their plan worked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #44 December 5, 2011 It would be SOOOOo cool if we could actually pull it off though aye? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 227 #45 December 5, 2011 Quote>They kept the search quick and professional. No actual crotch grab, >no jamming hands into my pants, no bullshit at all. They were quite polite, as >was I. In return I gave them no hassle at all either. So they wanted you to submit to an invasive patdown and you meekly complied with their demands. You want to make a difference? Refuse any search. Period. If everyone followed your lead the searches would end within a month. Attached is the form I carry in case they want to send me through the machine or touch me thereafter. I have not said word the first to a screener for 7 some-odd years, and will not accompany them out of public scrutiny. They don't like it, but fuck them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #46 December 5, 2011 Quote>If you refuse to be screened at any point during the screening process, the Security >Officer will deny you entry beyond the screening area. You will not be able to fly. Exactly. A week of this and every airline executive in the US will be screaming at the top of his lungs for the government to DO SOMETHING! They will air TV ads saying "Here at American we value your right to fly, but the TSA is keeping you on the ground. Contact your representative if you want to fly over the upcoming Christmas holiday." The Wall Street Journal will analyze just how much the TSA is damaging the economy by shutting down the airlines. What will people do? People will start driving, taking the bus or taking the train. Those who must fly will do so via chartered flights operating out of non-TSA-administered airports. Those companies will make millions and will start hiring all the out of work pilots from American who can no longer find jobs. Airport authorities, local police, pilots, mechanics, even the people who work the snack bars will do everything in their power to keep the TSA out of the non-administered airport. A month or so of this and the TSA will discover that it has some alternatives to the current screening process. Of course the above will inconvenience people and so will never happen. I believe that we have reached the point where the TSA, all the ancillary equipment and burgeoning pay roll, have become a self regenerating industry unto themselves. Too much $$$ involved for it to go away. Look for the TSA to become larger and more invasive. Like the stupid Department of Energy that was supposed to glean the US off foreign oil/energy. Thirty plus years of nuttin' but increased government BUE-AKK-cracy...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #47 December 5, 2011 >I believe that we have reached the point where the TSA, all the ancillary equipment >and burgeoning pay roll, have become a self regenerating industry unto themselves. >Too much $$$ involved for it to go away. If we really care enough to get rid of it . . . If airports all over the US shut down because of the TSA . . . If every TSA agent in the country ends up out of a job because no one is flying at airports they are at . . . If airlines collapse because of the TSA . . . If every politician who calls for its abolishment becomes a local hero . . . . . . then they will be gone very, very quickly. There will be no money for them and no job for them to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #48 December 5, 2011 Quote >I believe that we have reached the point where the TSA, all the ancillary equipment >and burgeoning pay roll, have become a self regenerating industry unto themselves. >Too much $$$ involved for it to go away. If we really care enough to get rid of it . . . If airports all over the US shut down because of the TSA . . . If every TSA agent in the country ends up out of a job because no one is flying at airports they are at . . . If airlines collapse because of the TSA . . . If every politician who calls for its abolishment becomes a local hero . . . . . . then they will be gone very, very quickly. There will be no money for them and no job for them to do. Kongress would have six months of hearings... The FAA would commission a Study.... six to eight more months... Lobbyists for the Xray and sniffer machines would request even more hearings....... and so on ad nausea-um. I'm afraid we are stuck with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #49 December 5, 2011 Quote>If you refuse to be screened at any point during the screening process, the Security >Officer will deny you entry beyond the screening area. You will not be able to fly. Exactly. A week of this and every airline executive in the US will be screaming at the top of his lungs for the government to DO SOMETHING! They will air TV ads saying "Here at American we value your right to fly, but the TSA is keeping you on the ground. Contact your representative if you want to fly over the upcoming Christmas holiday." The Wall Street Journal will analyze just how much the TSA is damaging the economy by shutting down the airlines. What you're talking about is not buying tickets. Refusing a search is forfeiting paid for tickets. While it would show a greater commitment, it wouldn't hurt the airline. Taking the train (what train!?) or the bus isn't a viable option to the West Coasters. It might work along the Eastern Seaboard where many of the common destinations are close enough, and there is a honest to god train that people actually use to get places. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #50 December 5, 2011 >What you're talking about is not buying tickets. Ideally, yes. >Taking the train (what train!?) or the bus isn't a viable option to the West Coasters. We've done it. It actually does work. It's a lot more inconvenient though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites