kallend 1,648 #76 November 27, 2011 QuoteQuote BTW - the structure of the atom and the apparent similarities to a solar system - a nice example of intutition (emotive thinking) leading to wholly unfounded conclusions. The 2 are the result of very different forces at work. I see almost no similarity between an atom and a solar system. How are s, p, d and f orbitals similar to planets?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #77 November 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote BTW - the structure of the atom and the apparent similarities to a solar system - a nice example of intutition (emotive thinking) leading to wholly unfounded conclusions. The 2 are the result of very different forces at work. I see almost no similarity between an atom and a solar system. How are s, p, d and f orbitals similar to planets? damn...you mean we're really not living on an electron in an atomic compostion of dirt under the finger nail of some larger entity? ...woe is me.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,259 #78 November 27, 2011 QuotePretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it. Why not?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,259 #79 November 27, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Oh yeah because everything we find most important in our lives is soooo perfectly logical... You'd have to be the most insipid bastard on the planet to stifle the imagination and reduce the human experience to the borish limits of logic and mathematics... Oh hey look, you missed the point in a way that allows you to act like a complete dickhead. Who'da thunk it? Right back atcha' bub...the implication was that no such insipid bastard exists. Strike two. The insipid bastard, existing or not, simply has no relevance to the thread. Believing absolutely in fairy stories has nothing to do with possession of imagination.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SStewart 13 #80 November 28, 2011 QuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him?Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #81 November 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him? I know, failing of the English language, God is neither male or female. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #82 November 28, 2011 Pretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it Why not? Nature is not wasteful, everything serves a purpose or it is weeded out of the gene pool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,351 #83 November 28, 2011 QuotePretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it Why not? Nature is not wasteful, everything serves a purpose or it is weeded out of the gene pool. Like the appendix? Or the tailbone? Nature can be extremely wasteful during natural selection. How many mutations die off without reproducing, or end up evolutionary dead ends? (as was pointed out before, there is no "conciousness" to it) Some of that stuff takes a long time to be weeded out, some never leaves. We see faces in inantimate objects because pattern recognition is a valuable skill for spotting predators or enemies hiding in the wilderness. It still has people seeing faces in trees and rocks. Some insist that there was a civilization on Mars because they saw a "face." Considering that there aren't any succesful civlized societies throughout history that didn't have some sort of deity, there is either some validity to the "God" idea, or there is societal value to perpetuating the idea. People also have a rather tenacious tendency to want explanations for stuff. They want answers. They will make up the most ridiculous answer to a question, regardless of the truth. And it's been shown that a lot of people won't accept simple answers to complicated questions. They want answers that are as complex as the situation that generated the question. Conspiracy theories about the Kennedy assasination or the Sept 11 attacks are a good example of this. "It was a lone whacko" or "It was a small group of pissed off Muslims" aren't sufficient answers for such people. They need a complex and intricate conspiracy to equal the huge results of those situations. Searching for meaning is an instinctive act. Curiosity about our world has enormous survival value. But again, a simple or incomplete answer, or "It was just random chance" isn't enough for some. The answer of "Where else would you put it" isn't enough of an answer to the question "Why is the Universe here?" for a lot of people. They want a deeper meaning. Sometimes there isn't one. Some people refuse to accept that. That's simple human nature. It has it's values under certain circumstances, but it can also cause people to make up some of the most amazingly ridiculous answers to such questions."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #77 November 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote BTW - the structure of the atom and the apparent similarities to a solar system - a nice example of intutition (emotive thinking) leading to wholly unfounded conclusions. The 2 are the result of very different forces at work. I see almost no similarity between an atom and a solar system. How are s, p, d and f orbitals similar to planets? damn...you mean we're really not living on an electron in an atomic compostion of dirt under the finger nail of some larger entity? ...woe is me.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,259 #78 November 27, 2011 QuotePretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it. Why not?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,259 #79 November 27, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Oh yeah because everything we find most important in our lives is soooo perfectly logical... You'd have to be the most insipid bastard on the planet to stifle the imagination and reduce the human experience to the borish limits of logic and mathematics... Oh hey look, you missed the point in a way that allows you to act like a complete dickhead. Who'da thunk it? Right back atcha' bub...the implication was that no such insipid bastard exists. Strike two. The insipid bastard, existing or not, simply has no relevance to the thread. Believing absolutely in fairy stories has nothing to do with possession of imagination.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SStewart 13 #80 November 28, 2011 QuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him?Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #81 November 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him? I know, failing of the English language, God is neither male or female. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #82 November 28, 2011 Pretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it Why not? Nature is not wasteful, everything serves a purpose or it is weeded out of the gene pool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #78 November 27, 2011 QuotePretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it. Why not?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #79 November 27, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Oh yeah because everything we find most important in our lives is soooo perfectly logical... You'd have to be the most insipid bastard on the planet to stifle the imagination and reduce the human experience to the borish limits of logic and mathematics... Oh hey look, you missed the point in a way that allows you to act like a complete dickhead. Who'da thunk it? Right back atcha' bub...the implication was that no such insipid bastard exists. Strike two. The insipid bastard, existing or not, simply has no relevance to the thread. Believing absolutely in fairy stories has nothing to do with possession of imagination.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #80 November 28, 2011 QuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him?Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #81 November 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him? I know, failing of the English language, God is neither male or female. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #82 November 28, 2011 Pretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it Why not? Nature is not wasteful, everything serves a purpose or it is weeded out of the gene pool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #83 November 28, 2011 QuotePretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it Why not? Nature is not wasteful, everything serves a purpose or it is weeded out of the gene pool. Like the appendix? Or the tailbone? Nature can be extremely wasteful during natural selection. How many mutations die off without reproducing, or end up evolutionary dead ends? (as was pointed out before, there is no "conciousness" to it) Some of that stuff takes a long time to be weeded out, some never leaves. We see faces in inantimate objects because pattern recognition is a valuable skill for spotting predators or enemies hiding in the wilderness. It still has people seeing faces in trees and rocks. Some insist that there was a civilization on Mars because they saw a "face." Considering that there aren't any succesful civlized societies throughout history that didn't have some sort of deity, there is either some validity to the "God" idea, or there is societal value to perpetuating the idea. People also have a rather tenacious tendency to want explanations for stuff. They want answers. They will make up the most ridiculous answer to a question, regardless of the truth. And it's been shown that a lot of people won't accept simple answers to complicated questions. They want answers that are as complex as the situation that generated the question. Conspiracy theories about the Kennedy assasination or the Sept 11 attacks are a good example of this. "It was a lone whacko" or "It was a small group of pissed off Muslims" aren't sufficient answers for such people. They need a complex and intricate conspiracy to equal the huge results of those situations. Searching for meaning is an instinctive act. Curiosity about our world has enormous survival value. But again, a simple or incomplete answer, or "It was just random chance" isn't enough for some. The answer of "Where else would you put it" isn't enough of an answer to the question "Why is the Universe here?" for a lot of people. They want a deeper meaning. Sometimes there isn't one. Some people refuse to accept that. That's simple human nature. It has it's values under certain circumstances, but it can also cause people to make up some of the most amazingly ridiculous answers to such questions."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #84 November 28, 2011 QuoteWe see faces in inantimate objects because pattern recognition is a valuable skill for spotting predators or enemies hiding in the wilderness. It still has people seeing faces in trees and rocks. Some insist that there was a civilization on Mars because they saw a "face." You mean like Jesus on a piece of wheat toast? The Virgin Mary on a rotting pumpkin?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #85 November 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteWe see faces in inantimate objects because pattern recognition is a valuable skill for spotting predators or enemies hiding in the wilderness. It still has people seeing faces in trees and rocks. Some insist that there was a civilization on Mars because they saw a "face." You mean like Jesus on a piece of wheat toast? The Virgin Mary on a rotting pumpkin? Yep. Or the "Man in the Moon" Or the "Old Man of the Mountain" in New Hampshire. Kind of like abstract art. You see in it what's in your own mind. That's why people who see obscenity in abstract art are so amusing."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #86 November 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him? I know, failing of the English language, God is neither male or female. Ok, I always wondered why god would need a penis. And how come there is no Mrs. god? You know, like Mrs. Santa claus? I bet she would be pissed about him knocking up that virgin.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #87 November 28, 2011 Quote Pretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it Why not? Nature is not wasteful, everything serves a purpose or it is weeded out of the gene pool. A) Not true. B) You can't think of any other use for higher brain function than 'searching for meaning'? Jeez, talk about your lack of imagination!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #88 November 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Pretty simple concept evolutionarily speaking. If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it Why not? Nature is not wasteful, everything serves a purpose or it is weeded out of the gene pool. Like the appendix? Or the tailbone? I'm sure you'd agree that they had a purpose. What's the purpose of meaning or the seach thereof? Quote How many mutations die off without reproducing, or end up evolutionary dead ends? (as was pointed out before, there is no "conciousness" to it) Some of that stuff takes a long time to be weeded out, some never leaves. Ya, like Nihilists. Quote Searching for meaning is an instinctive act. Curiosity about our world has enormous survival value. Tell that to the cat... Quote But again, a simple or incomplete answer, or "It was just random chance" isn't enough for some. Ya, incomplete is not a passing grade.... Some people just can't handle the pressure and give up to soon before everything becomes unraveled and they get an F rather than an I. Quote That's simple human nature. It has it's values under certain circumstances, but it can also cause people to make up some of the most amazingly ridiculous answers to such questions. uh-huh, ya...it's so ridiculous to think that life is meaningless without God.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #89 November 29, 2011 QuoteI'm sure you'd agree that they had a purpose. What's the purpose of meaning or the seach thereof? So you can't think of any other use for higher brain function either? QuoteYa, like Nihilists. Fuckin' Nihilists. Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism Dude, at least it's a philosophy. QuoteYa, incomplete is not a passing grade.... Some people just can't handle the pressure and give up to soon before everything becomes unraveled and they get an F rather than an I. Strange isn't it? Figuring out how stuff actually works is so much more interesting than just assuming God, yet so many people do.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #90 November 30, 2011 Repost, but applicable. "Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #91 November 30, 2011 Quote Repost, but applicable. OK, but those who are incapable of doing science have to resort to making shit up.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #92 November 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteWe see faces in inantimate objects because pattern recognition is a valuable skill for spotting predators or enemies hiding in the wilderness. It still has people seeing faces in trees and rocks. Some insist that there was a civilization on Mars because they saw a "face." You mean like Jesus on a piece of wheat toast? The Virgin Mary on a rotting pumpkin? I have a pile of dirt in my back yard that looks rather like Jabba the Hutt.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #93 November 30, 2011 Quote Quote Quote We see faces in inantimate objects because pattern recognition is a valuable skill for spotting predators or enemies hiding in the wilderness. It still has people seeing faces in trees and rocks. Some insist that there was a civilization on Mars because they saw a "face." You mean like Jesus on a piece of wheat toast? The Virgin Mary on a rotting pumpkin? I have a pile of dirt in my back yard that looks rather like Jabba the Hutt. My neighbor has a car in his driveway that looks like a piece of sh!t. Strange how this recognition thing works HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #94 November 30, 2011 QuoteStrange isn't it? Figuring out how stuff actually works is so much more interesting than just assuming God, yet so many people do. Not really...most peple don't have a problem with figuring out how stuff actually works, nor do they have a problem with a personal endeavor to figure out the meaning of why, yet so many others do...strange isn't it?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #95 November 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote BTW - the structure of the atom and the apparent similarities to a solar system - a nice example of intutition (emotive thinking) leading to wholly unfounded conclusions. The 2 are the result of very different forces at work. I see almost no similarity between an atom and a solar system. How are s, p, d and f orbitals similar to planets? I'm referring to the typical image of how each is drawn out on paper. Little bits orbiting around a bigger bit. As I inferred, beyond that, you are correct, they are very different. You are aware of how many people unfamiliar with physics look at the 2 drawings and marvel at how similar they are, aren't you?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #96 November 30, 2011 QuoteYa...The concept of meaning may suggest the idea of a God...we can't have people running around here with that crap rattling around in their heads. The concept of meaning? Not sure what that means. The concept of meaning (the idea that things have meaning?) does not suggest anything. It is the specific meanings people discover or invent that suggest things. Some are valid (lots of birds flying south might mean it's time to bring in the crops and prepare for snow) while some are silly (a bright comet on the horizon means it's time to commit mass suicide). Yeah, there are some meanings none of us should want rattling around. The problem with internally generated meanings without evidence is that a person can declare something means whatever they want it to mean. I doubt there is a theology department at CERN; but then, they are not looking to answer questions of faith. Religious fundies could take a cue from this and stop trying to explain the natural world via texts written back when the elements were thought to be earth, wind & fire." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #97 November 30, 2011 Quote If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it. Just as if there wasn't any light, we would never have developed eyes to see it. Or if there wasn't sound we would not have developed ears to hear it. Quote You are confusing internally created meanings in response to questions of faith with physical response to natural stimulus. Do you think our mental capacity developed in response to a need to understand something as arcane as the meaning of life? Any chance it was a far more corporeal need? Such as the need to hunt, gather, communicate, defend the tribe, trade, etc. You're probably right; we developed big brains so we could search for meaning. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #98 November 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him? I know, failing of the English language, God is neither male or female. Go ahead and use They. It really pisses off the grammarians." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #99 November 30, 2011 QuoteNot really...most peple don't have a problem with figuring out how stuff actually works, nor do they have a problem with a personal endeavor to figure out the meaning of why, yet so many others do...strange isn't it? Again with the glittering vagueness. Figuring out how things work and why is great. Falling back on Neolithic age, faith-based reasoning and explanations is not. Thankfully, enough people operate enough of the time in a manner that keeps us from slipping back into another Dark Ages. Unfortunately, there are also enough people operating in that Neolithic mode that we still have to continue to fight things like anti-evolution stickers in science texts. I guess it is all relative. Seems there will always be some contingent trying to drag us back to some version of the good old days." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #100 November 30, 2011 You are confusing internally created meanings in response to questions of faith with physical response to natural stimulus. Do you think our mental capacity developed in response to a need to understand something as arcane as the meaning of life? Any chance it was a far more corporeal need? Such as the need to hunt, gather, communicate, defend the tribe, trade, etc. Agreed, enhanced mental capacity developed for many reasons. But I have observed, after the basic necessities of life are taken care of most of us find ourselves contemplating and searching for the meaning to our existence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #96 November 30, 2011 QuoteYa...The concept of meaning may suggest the idea of a God...we can't have people running around here with that crap rattling around in their heads. The concept of meaning? Not sure what that means. The concept of meaning (the idea that things have meaning?) does not suggest anything. It is the specific meanings people discover or invent that suggest things. Some are valid (lots of birds flying south might mean it's time to bring in the crops and prepare for snow) while some are silly (a bright comet on the horizon means it's time to commit mass suicide). Yeah, there are some meanings none of us should want rattling around. The problem with internally generated meanings without evidence is that a person can declare something means whatever they want it to mean. I doubt there is a theology department at CERN; but then, they are not looking to answer questions of faith. Religious fundies could take a cue from this and stop trying to explain the natural world via texts written back when the elements were thought to be earth, wind & fire." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #97 November 30, 2011 Quote If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it. Just as if there wasn't any light, we would never have developed eyes to see it. Or if there wasn't sound we would not have developed ears to hear it. Quote You are confusing internally created meanings in response to questions of faith with physical response to natural stimulus. Do you think our mental capacity developed in response to a need to understand something as arcane as the meaning of life? Any chance it was a far more corporeal need? Such as the need to hunt, gather, communicate, defend the tribe, trade, etc. You're probably right; we developed big brains so we could search for meaning. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #98 November 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteEither way, I am truly thankful for all the blessings God has given me, and can't imagine living my life without Him. Him? I know, failing of the English language, God is neither male or female. Go ahead and use They. It really pisses off the grammarians." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #99 November 30, 2011 QuoteNot really...most peple don't have a problem with figuring out how stuff actually works, nor do they have a problem with a personal endeavor to figure out the meaning of why, yet so many others do...strange isn't it? Again with the glittering vagueness. Figuring out how things work and why is great. Falling back on Neolithic age, faith-based reasoning and explanations is not. Thankfully, enough people operate enough of the time in a manner that keeps us from slipping back into another Dark Ages. Unfortunately, there are also enough people operating in that Neolithic mode that we still have to continue to fight things like anti-evolution stickers in science texts. I guess it is all relative. Seems there will always be some contingent trying to drag us back to some version of the good old days." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #100 November 30, 2011 You are confusing internally created meanings in response to questions of faith with physical response to natural stimulus. Do you think our mental capacity developed in response to a need to understand something as arcane as the meaning of life? Any chance it was a far more corporeal need? Such as the need to hunt, gather, communicate, defend the tribe, trade, etc. Agreed, enhanced mental capacity developed for many reasons. But I have observed, after the basic necessities of life are taken care of most of us find ourselves contemplating and searching for the meaning to our existence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
