Worried about the debt ceilng?

[rushmc 18]

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>NO one had said ALL bill will be paid

NOW we're making progress! Excellent, gold star.

Now - what bills will we not pay, and why do you assume that Social Security will get priority over all our other debts?

Study that on your own and stop your twisting

If SS checks are not sent out then that would be the Presidents fault and his alone

Now, you imply here that some how I indicated ALL the bills would get paid

I think your mind reading machine is broken again

Either that or your arogance anger problems have resurfaced
But in any event the Gov will not default on its obligations. That is a fact

Many parts of the Gov may go on furloug, and that is a good thing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,475]

>Social security won't have priority over interest payments

Agreed.

>but that fact alone doesn't mean the statement that social security checks
>might not get paid relevant.

We weren't arguing relevance, we were talking about whether it's true. And if social security won't have priority over other payments, and some payments must be stopped - then those social security checks may be among them.

[DougH 270]

It doesn't make it true, it makes it possible, but it may not be probable.

You and I are almost in agreement Bill.

Let me put it this way. If they prioritize payments and right now there are 20 buckets in order of priority that are all getting paid. Social security is in bucket number 5. The treasury has a shortfall of 10 buckets because we hit the debt limit.

When that happens bucket number 5, social security is still going to get paid.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[billvon 2,475]

>If SS checks are not sent out then that would be the Presidents fault and his alone

It would be the fault of all the people who refused to raise the debt ceiling, of course.

But another bit of progress! You said IF the SS checks are not sent out. So you now admit that SS checks might not get sent out. Another gold star!

>But in any event the Gov will not default on its obligations.

As you have admitted, it will have to. There will be a 125 billion a month shortfall that will have to be made up by not meetings its obligations. Those obligations may be paychecks for federal employees, or payments to social security recipients. They might be veteran's benefits, or taxpayer refunds, or pay for the military. They might be college tuition funds, or fuel for the military, or payments to military contractors.

It could do even stupider things, like defaulting on our debt. If that happens, our credit rating will tank and we will pay even more for our debt, putting us deeper and deeper into debt to foreign countries.

However, there is another option that I hope doesn't get used. If Obama wants to he can simply extend the debt ceiling on his own, citing the 14th Amendment. This would move even more power from Congress to the President, and we've been doing far too much of that lately.

So if you really do write to your congressional representatives, get a pen and tell em to get the lead out and find a compromise - because I guarantee you won't like what happens if none is found.

[rushmc 18]

there is nothing to compromise with

As Obama and the Dems have offered no plan

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,475]

>If they prioritize payments and right now there are 20 buckets in order of
>priority that are all getting paid. Social security is in bucket number 5.

In your set of assumptions, that works. However, Social Security may not end up in bucket 5; those priorities will be up to Geithner. If it ends up in bucket 15, it may not be paid.

[billvon 2,475]

>OK fine. Bump it enough to carry through to Jan 2012.

I'd rather solve the problem. We can't keep kicking it down the road as we've done for the past ten years. We have to raise taxes and cut expenditures; going another six months into the hole won't change that, and it will just put us even further in debt.

[DougH 270]

Neither sides proposals have come close to having enough deficit reduction to solve that part of the problem.

Even if you extend the debt ceiling beyond 2012 you are only kicking the can down the road.

They can't even get there shit together for a stop gap measure. They have a snowballs chance in hell putting together the mix of spending cuts, entitlement reform, and tax increases that is actually needed to fix this quandry.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[mnealtx 0]

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>OK fine. Bump it enough to carry through to Jan 2012.

I'd rather solve the problem. We can't keep kicking it down the road as we've done for the past ten years. We have to raise taxes and cut expenditures; going another six months into the hole won't change that, and it will just put us even further in debt.

We'll be further in debt whether it's a 6 month extension or a year. Also, isn't that exactly what the Dems did under Reagan - bump it six months at a time?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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So would I, but that's not going to happen in the next five days. Six months? Maybe they'll get SOMETHING accomplished by then.

How long as this story been going on - since March, no? And here we are. However, my feeling is that the closer we make the drop dead date to an election, the *less* pleasant the outcome. Neither party wants to compromise just before a vote. And both really need to accept that they must compromise their principles.

[rushmc 18]

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>OK fine. Bump it enough to carry through to Jan 2012.

I'd rather solve the problem. We can't keep kicking it down the road as we've done for the past ten years. We have to raise taxes and cut expenditures; going another six months into the hole won't change that, and it will just put us even further in debt.

We'll be further in debt whether it's a 6 month extension or a year. Also, isn't that exactly what the Dems did under Reagan - bump it six months at a time?

The ceiling has been raised three times under Obama already

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Frankyspanky 0]

National debt by U.S. presidential terms clicky

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[Guest]

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Heard something on NPR today but I wasn't paying full attention.

They either said that for each .1% or 1% increase in the interest rate on our debt we would end up with another trillion dollars tacked on to the deficit.

Doesn't matter any way. Even if we get things done in the lick of time we are likely to see a downgrade.

The dysfunctional show in Washington, and the fact that any debt ceiling increase is going to fall far far short of the actual deficit cutting that we need has all but sealed our fate.

Any yes interest will get paid first. Interest goes before everything else, because everything else gets exponentially more expensive if you stop paying the interest and default.

What I am concerned about is the cascade effect that a a default could lead to - mainly a collapse in the value of the dollar and the triggering of a worldwide depression.

And the effect at home - our money will be worthless. I have a friend who works in finance. He urged me in the strongest possible terms to buy as much gold as I possibly could right now - that was over a year ago and I haven't done it.

I want to convert at least some of assets to gold and move it offshore and thus have something to fall back on, but I am running into all kinds of opposition. Can it be that those who have all the money want to make sure I can't have any of my own? It looks that way from here. Yes, we are talking about the proverbial "run on the bank", as happened in 1929. It's my impression that it's going to happen again and is going to be far worse this time.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Amazon 7]

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Heard something on NPR today but I wasn't paying full attention.

They either said that for each .1% or 1% increase in the interest rate on our debt we would end up with another trillion dollars tacked on to the deficit.

Doesn't matter any way. Even if we get things done in the lick of time we are likely to see a downgrade.

The dysfunctional show in Washington, and the fact that any debt ceiling increase is going to fall far far short of the actual deficit cutting that we need has all but sealed our fate.

Any yes interest will get paid first. Interest goes before everything else, because everything else gets exponentially more expensive if you stop paying the interest and default.

What I am concerned about is the cascade effect that a a default could lead to - mainly a collapse in the value of the dollar and the triggering of a worldwide depression.

And the effect at home - our money will be worthless. I have a friend who works in finance. He urged me in the strongest possible terms to buy as much gold as I possibly could right now - that was over a year ago and I haven't done it.

I want to convert at least some of assets to gold and move it offshore and thus have something to fall back on, but I am running into all kinds of opposition. Can it be that those who have all the money want to make sure I can't have any of my own? It looks that way from here. Yes, we are talking about the proverbial "run on the bank", as happened in 1929. It's my impression that it's going to happen again and is going to be far worse this time.

mh
.

I am liking all that 5 and 6 dollar an ounce silver I bought a while back.. as well as the $325 an ounce yellow shiny stuff
That shit is hard to move around... heavy it is

[Niki1 1]

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But if they don't want to raise it, fine with me. I'm ready for the storm.

I know you're not one of the people who had a hurrican party in Kindall, Fla just before Andrew came ashore. They died. They ALL died.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

• Quote

[kelpdiver 2]

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I want to convert at least some of assets to gold and move it offshore and thus have something to fall back on, but I am running into all kinds of opposition. Can it be that those who have all the money want to make sure I can't have any of my own? It looks that way from here. Yes, we are talking about the proverbial "run on the bank", as happened in 1929. It's my impression that it's going to happen again and is going to be far worse this time.

mh
.

Worth noting that when looking at the assets of the wealthy, gold is still a tiny portion, rarely over 5%. So the conspiracy against you likely doesn't exist. If you didn't buy gold a year ago, I would suggest it now - you're just acting as the greater fool for last year's fools.

And why would you want to offshore it? If we ever got to a situation where you needed the metal, you would have a hard time getting it back.