dreamdancer 0 #26 April 11, 2011 QuoteLocal Exchange Trading Systems (LETS) also known as LETSystems are locally initiated, democratically organised, not-for-profit community enterprises that provide a community information service and record transactions of members exchanging goods and services by using the currency of locally created LETS Credits. In some places, e.g. Toronto, the scheme has been called the Local Employment and Trading System. In New South Wales, Australia, they were known as Local Energy Transfer Systems. Michael Linton originated the term "Local Exchange Trading System" in 1983 and for a time ran the Comox Valley LETSystems in Courtenay, British Columbia. The system he designed was intended as an adjunct to the national currency, rather than a replacement for it, although there are examples of individuals who have managed to replace their use of national currency through inventive usage of LETS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Exchange_Trading_Systemsstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #27 April 11, 2011 >So again ,please don't tell us "the IRS says". You can listen or not as you choose. You can even refuse to pay. And when the judge tells you that the reason he is sending you to prison is that you did not follow IRS requirements, you can ignore him, too. (But you'll still end up in jail.) "Hey, buddy, what are you in for?" "Don't know, didn't listen." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #28 April 11, 2011 QuoteWhat about an even trade where I trade my time for it's value($40.00 per hour)? I haven't gained anything , i've simply made an even trade. My time for someone elses money. Has that even exchange produced taxable income? Bwahaha. Still trying to find a clever angle out of paying income tax, eh? Well, this dodge, too, has already been tried, by people a lot more facile than you. Failed, of course. Yeah, I know: they were blocked by federal judges who shoulda recused themselves. Give it a rest already. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #29 April 11, 2011 Here is a list of countries with varying levels of low or no income tax. This country is not on that list. I would suggest that you try one of them. Nauru, for instance, only has an airport departure tax. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #30 April 11, 2011 Quote .....This country is not on that list. I would suggest that you try one of them. Nauru, for instance, only has an airport departure tax. Wendy P. Seems like I vaguely remember a couple of bars like that ...no cover charge but you had to pay to get out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jayruss 0 #31 April 12, 2011 Quote Follow me here, I'm thinking that if I make an even trade with an individual, let's say I trade a '73 River Queen houseboat for a '88 Harley Heritage Softail, and the value of each is $6999, no "income " was produced therefore there is no income tax liability incurred. Would you agree or disagree? Peace, Jim B/ As a CPA my first question would be, who placed the values on each of these items? You may feel your houseboat is worth only $6999 and be willing to give it up for that price however, the actual value of the exchange my differ. The IRS is seeing this a lot right now, we have people giving away "toys" for nothing because they need the cash. What you are willing to trade an item for isn't its value. So the first thing I would do to audit this exchange is pull third party prices for each item. Any kind of boat trader or bike trader service should provide a reasonable basis for the prices. On a side note, in most states sales tax would be due for the full sales price of $6,999. __________________________________________________ "Beware how you take away hope from another human being." -Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #32 April 12, 2011 Quote Follow me here, Yeah, with about the same result as following a lemming. Pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #33 April 14, 2011 Bwahaha. Still trying to find a clever angle out of paying income tax, eh? Well, this dodge, too, has already been tried, by people a lot more facile than you. Failed, of course. Yeah, I know: they were blocked by federal judges who shoulda recused themselves. Give it a rest already. You may or may not realize this counselor,and it seems that many members of the Bar don't, but judges aren't Gods! Will you at least agree with me on that point? OK, so a federal judge blocked this argument. So what? Big deal. Maybe he made a bad ruling. They are human and it does happen often. Fact is that wages are not income but rather an even trade(at best) for a portion of the workers life. In a capitalistic society the market sets the value of each persons hours spent at labor . They don't pay any more than that. Most people as they get on in life and realize they have not too many hours left , wish they had spent less of their finite hours of life trading for money and spent more time with family and friends. In other words they realize they squandered a large portion of their Life trading for dollars. And it was a *trade*. At best for the worker an *even* trade. Nothing was gained so there is no income. I ask you(I don't mean just you Andy,get over yourself) is the government entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of your Life and Liberty? If you answer yes you must also agree that Man does not have the Right to His Life and Liberty ( government can take it at it's whim). There is a name for those over whom other men have a higher Right to their own Life and Liberty. They call them slaves . Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #34 April 14, 2011 >is the government entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of >your Life and Liberty? Yes. Just as your credit card company is entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of your Life and Liberty. >If you answer yes you must also agree that Man does not have the Right to His >Life and Liberty You are correct; it is not an unlimited right. If, for example, you get in a bell tower and start shooting people, you will find that the government will rapidly remove your Right to Life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #35 April 14, 2011 Quote Fact is that wages are not income but rather an even trade(at best) for a portion of the workers life. A) So you believe that there is no such thing as income? The word is totally redundant, perhaps? B) "An even trade." While you can play your games at defining an hour (or a unit of work) as a commodity whos value is solely defined by what someone else will pay for it, the obvious circularity of the argument does little for its credibility or usefulness. At best, you're simply redefining the word 'trade' to replace the word 'earn'. Well then, now you can consider income tax to be levied on what you're trading instead of what you're earning. Do you feel like you've achieved something?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #36 April 14, 2011 Quote>So again ,please don't tell us "the IRS says". You can listen or not as you choose. You can even refuse to pay. And when the judge tells you that the reason he is sending you to prison is that you did not follow IRS requirements, you can ignore him, too. (But you'll still end up in jail.) "Hey, buddy, what are you in for?" "Don't know, didn't listen." LOL! That's great! I like that line! I'll use it next time I'm in jail!! Thanks!!! Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #37 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteFact is that wages are not income but rather an even trade(at best) for a portion of the workers life. A) So you believe that there is no such thing as income? The word is totally redundant, perhaps?Quote Not at all. I believe that if you make a proffit off of the labor of others you do have an income. Another example of income is if you gain interest off of money you didn't earn through wages. I could give you several more examples of income. Obviously I don't believe that an even trade of my life for wages is income. It;s even trade. Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #38 April 14, 2011 Quote>is the government entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of >your Life and Liberty? Yes. Just as your credit card company is entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of your Life and Liberty.Quote Completely different. You entered in to a contract with the bank (let's call a spade a spade , credit card company?) as a Free Man. I never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity. Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,122 #39 April 14, 2011 QuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #40 April 14, 2011 >You entered in to a contract with the bank Yep. And in return, they are entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of your Life and Liberty. The contract with the US, described in our Constitution, isn't one you entered into by signing anything, but you are a free man - and you are free to end that contract at any time. If you choose to NOT end it, then you are bound by it. Are you a sheep, or are you a Free man? If you are a Free man, then exercise your Freedom. If not, then don't. Your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #41 April 14, 2011 Quote You entered in to a contract with the bank (let's call a spade a spade , credit card company?) as a Free Man. I never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity Judging by your inability to reason, arithmetic issues, particular brand of buzzword jargon garbage, and automatic use of the race card, I'm going to go with "what is a washitaw/mu'ur whackjob, Alex?" Are those your sovereign non-contacting brothers?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #42 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P. Wait a second ,Wendy, are you saying that even in The United States of America persons born within those borders aren't Free? Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #43 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P. No Wendy! You are as sweet as you are naive. By birth I have an absolute Right to sovreignity. No man or groups of men have any superior Right which is greater than my Natural Right to sovereignity. Not wanting to participate absolutely exempts me! That pretty much is the definition of a Free Man! Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #44 April 14, 2011 The contract with the US, described in our Constitution, isn't one you entered into by signing anything, but you are a free man - and you are free to end that contract at any time. If you choose to NOT end it, then you are bound by it.*** Your version of the Contract with America is sounding kinda like the Columbia Record Club 's agreement. QuoteAre you a sheep, or are you a Free man? If you are a Free man, then exercise your Freedom. If not, then don't. Your choice. Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. So next time a government agent gets shot and killed let us not grieve for him and his family. Instead we should all rejoice that another Freeman has retained His Rights against the overwhelming forces of government tyranny. Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #45 April 14, 2011 >Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. Agreed! So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise, or remain a dependent slave, sucking at the teat of the government while simultaneously complaining about the free milk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #46 April 14, 2011 Quote>Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. Agreed! So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise, or remain a dependent slave, sucking at the teat of the government while simultaneously complaining about the free milk? I don't rely on any government services I have no need for them. As a matter of fact I'm a little pissed right this moment about the government expanding the highway onto my favorite goat grazing ground. Sheep wouldn't understand. Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #47 April 14, 2011 QuoteI believe that if you make a proffit off of the labor of others you do have an income. But how is that possible? Say you own a mine. You make an even trade with your miners of money for their time and effort in diggin coal out of the ground. So: the miners have money, you have coal, all square. You then take the coal to the market where you make an even trade with an energy company who give you money in exchange for the coal and for your time and expenditure incurred in providing it for them. So: The miners have money, you have money, the energy company has coal and it's all been conducted with a series of even trades. Where's the income? QuoteAnother example of income is if you gain interest off of money you didn't earn through wages. But no one has ever earned money through wages, they've simply traded time for money.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #48 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI believe that if you make a proffit off of the labor of others you do have an income. But how is that possible? Say you own a mine. You make an even trade with your miners of money for their time and effort in diggin coal out of the ground. So: the miners have money, you have coal, all square. You then take the coal to the market where you make an even trade with an energy company who give you money in exchange for the coal and for your time and expenditure incurred in providing it for them. So: The miners have money, you have money, the energy company has coal and it's all been conducted with a series of even trades. Where's the income? The company doesn't sell the product at an even trade. They sell it at a proffit. Thus income is produced. Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #49 April 14, 2011 >>So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise . . . >I don't rely on any government services I have no need for them. And yet ironically you are posting on a system that was created by and funded by the US government! I will take your answer as "no." Fair enough; you have forfeited your freedom and chosen to remain a slave. Do the chains weigh more lightly since you have chosen to wear them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #50 April 14, 2011 QuoteThe company doesn't sell the product at an even trade. They sell it at a proffit. Thus income is produced. What do you mean they don't sell it at an even trade? Why not? If an even trade for your time is what someone else is willing to pay you for it, then selling coal for what someone else is willing to pay for it is an even trade also. They had coal, now they have money. Just like you had time, now you have money.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jimbrown 0 #38 April 14, 2011 Quote>is the government entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of >your Life and Liberty? Yes. Just as your credit card company is entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of your Life and Liberty.Quote Completely different. You entered in to a contract with the bank (let's call a spade a spade , credit card company?) as a Free Man. I never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity. Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,122 #39 April 14, 2011 QuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #40 April 14, 2011 >You entered in to a contract with the bank Yep. And in return, they are entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of your Life and Liberty. The contract with the US, described in our Constitution, isn't one you entered into by signing anything, but you are a free man - and you are free to end that contract at any time. If you choose to NOT end it, then you are bound by it. Are you a sheep, or are you a Free man? If you are a Free man, then exercise your Freedom. If not, then don't. Your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #41 April 14, 2011 Quote You entered in to a contract with the bank (let's call a spade a spade , credit card company?) as a Free Man. I never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity Judging by your inability to reason, arithmetic issues, particular brand of buzzword jargon garbage, and automatic use of the race card, I'm going to go with "what is a washitaw/mu'ur whackjob, Alex?" Are those your sovereign non-contacting brothers?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #42 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P. Wait a second ,Wendy, are you saying that even in The United States of America persons born within those borders aren't Free? Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #43 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P. No Wendy! You are as sweet as you are naive. By birth I have an absolute Right to sovreignity. No man or groups of men have any superior Right which is greater than my Natural Right to sovereignity. Not wanting to participate absolutely exempts me! That pretty much is the definition of a Free Man! Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #44 April 14, 2011 The contract with the US, described in our Constitution, isn't one you entered into by signing anything, but you are a free man - and you are free to end that contract at any time. If you choose to NOT end it, then you are bound by it.*** Your version of the Contract with America is sounding kinda like the Columbia Record Club 's agreement. QuoteAre you a sheep, or are you a Free man? If you are a Free man, then exercise your Freedom. If not, then don't. Your choice. Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. So next time a government agent gets shot and killed let us not grieve for him and his family. Instead we should all rejoice that another Freeman has retained His Rights against the overwhelming forces of government tyranny. Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #45 April 14, 2011 >Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. Agreed! So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise, or remain a dependent slave, sucking at the teat of the government while simultaneously complaining about the free milk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #46 April 14, 2011 Quote>Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. Agreed! So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise, or remain a dependent slave, sucking at the teat of the government while simultaneously complaining about the free milk? I don't rely on any government services I have no need for them. As a matter of fact I'm a little pissed right this moment about the government expanding the highway onto my favorite goat grazing ground. Sheep wouldn't understand. Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #47 April 14, 2011 QuoteI believe that if you make a proffit off of the labor of others you do have an income. But how is that possible? Say you own a mine. You make an even trade with your miners of money for their time and effort in diggin coal out of the ground. So: the miners have money, you have coal, all square. You then take the coal to the market where you make an even trade with an energy company who give you money in exchange for the coal and for your time and expenditure incurred in providing it for them. So: The miners have money, you have money, the energy company has coal and it's all been conducted with a series of even trades. Where's the income? QuoteAnother example of income is if you gain interest off of money you didn't earn through wages. But no one has ever earned money through wages, they've simply traded time for money.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #48 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI believe that if you make a proffit off of the labor of others you do have an income. But how is that possible? Say you own a mine. You make an even trade with your miners of money for their time and effort in diggin coal out of the ground. So: the miners have money, you have coal, all square. You then take the coal to the market where you make an even trade with an energy company who give you money in exchange for the coal and for your time and expenditure incurred in providing it for them. So: The miners have money, you have money, the energy company has coal and it's all been conducted with a series of even trades. Where's the income? The company doesn't sell the product at an even trade. They sell it at a proffit. Thus income is produced. Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #49 April 14, 2011 >>So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise . . . >I don't rely on any government services I have no need for them. And yet ironically you are posting on a system that was created by and funded by the US government! I will take your answer as "no." Fair enough; you have forfeited your freedom and chosen to remain a slave. Do the chains weigh more lightly since you have chosen to wear them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #50 April 14, 2011 QuoteThe company doesn't sell the product at an even trade. They sell it at a proffit. Thus income is produced. What do you mean they don't sell it at an even trade? Why not? If an even trade for your time is what someone else is willing to pay you for it, then selling coal for what someone else is willing to pay for it is an even trade also. They had coal, now they have money. Just like you had time, now you have money.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
wmw999 2,122 #39 April 14, 2011 QuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #40 April 14, 2011 >You entered in to a contract with the bank Yep. And in return, they are entitled to dollars you earned in wages traded for a portion of your Life and Liberty. The contract with the US, described in our Constitution, isn't one you entered into by signing anything, but you are a free man - and you are free to end that contract at any time. If you choose to NOT end it, then you are bound by it. Are you a sheep, or are you a Free man? If you are a Free man, then exercise your Freedom. If not, then don't. Your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #41 April 14, 2011 Quote You entered in to a contract with the bank (let's call a spade a spade , credit card company?) as a Free Man. I never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity Judging by your inability to reason, arithmetic issues, particular brand of buzzword jargon garbage, and automatic use of the race card, I'm going to go with "what is a washitaw/mu'ur whackjob, Alex?" Are those your sovereign non-contacting brothers?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #42 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P. Wait a second ,Wendy, are you saying that even in The United States of America persons born within those borders aren't Free? Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #43 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI never entered into any contract with any government to forfieght my sovereignity.This world is largely organized into unit governed by governments. These governments provide services. Not wanting to participate doesn't exempt you. You have to live somewhere that doesn't, by law, require participation based on location. Wendy P. No Wendy! You are as sweet as you are naive. By birth I have an absolute Right to sovreignity. No man or groups of men have any superior Right which is greater than my Natural Right to sovereignity. Not wanting to participate absolutely exempts me! That pretty much is the definition of a Free Man! Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #44 April 14, 2011 The contract with the US, described in our Constitution, isn't one you entered into by signing anything, but you are a free man - and you are free to end that contract at any time. If you choose to NOT end it, then you are bound by it.*** Your version of the Contract with America is sounding kinda like the Columbia Record Club 's agreement. QuoteAre you a sheep, or are you a Free man? If you are a Free man, then exercise your Freedom. If not, then don't. Your choice. Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. So next time a government agent gets shot and killed let us not grieve for him and his family. Instead we should all rejoice that another Freeman has retained His Rights against the overwhelming forces of government tyranny. Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #45 April 14, 2011 >Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. Agreed! So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise, or remain a dependent slave, sucking at the teat of the government while simultaneously complaining about the free milk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #46 April 14, 2011 Quote>Now that I agree with. Freemen retain their Rights by exercising them. Agreed! So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise, or remain a dependent slave, sucking at the teat of the government while simultaneously complaining about the free milk? I don't rely on any government services I have no need for them. As a matter of fact I'm a little pissed right this moment about the government expanding the highway onto my favorite goat grazing ground. Sheep wouldn't understand. Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #47 April 14, 2011 QuoteI believe that if you make a proffit off of the labor of others you do have an income. But how is that possible? Say you own a mine. You make an even trade with your miners of money for their time and effort in diggin coal out of the ground. So: the miners have money, you have coal, all square. You then take the coal to the market where you make an even trade with an energy company who give you money in exchange for the coal and for your time and expenditure incurred in providing it for them. So: The miners have money, you have money, the energy company has coal and it's all been conducted with a series of even trades. Where's the income? QuoteAnother example of income is if you gain interest off of money you didn't earn through wages. But no one has ever earned money through wages, they've simply traded time for money.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #48 April 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI believe that if you make a proffit off of the labor of others you do have an income. But how is that possible? Say you own a mine. You make an even trade with your miners of money for their time and effort in diggin coal out of the ground. So: the miners have money, you have coal, all square. You then take the coal to the market where you make an even trade with an energy company who give you money in exchange for the coal and for your time and expenditure incurred in providing it for them. So: The miners have money, you have money, the energy company has coal and it's all been conducted with a series of even trades. Where's the income? The company doesn't sell the product at an even trade. They sell it at a proffit. Thus income is produced. Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #49 April 14, 2011 >>So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise . . . >I don't rely on any government services I have no need for them. And yet ironically you are posting on a system that was created by and funded by the US government! I will take your answer as "no." Fair enough; you have forfeited your freedom and chosen to remain a slave. Do the chains weigh more lightly since you have chosen to wear them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #50 April 14, 2011 QuoteThe company doesn't sell the product at an even trade. They sell it at a proffit. Thus income is produced. What do you mean they don't sell it at an even trade? Why not? If an even trade for your time is what someone else is willing to pay you for it, then selling coal for what someone else is willing to pay for it is an even trade also. They had coal, now they have money. Just like you had time, now you have money.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 2,400 #49 April 14, 2011 >>So - will you exercise your Rights as a Free Man and leave the system you so despise . . . >I don't rely on any government services I have no need for them. And yet ironically you are posting on a system that was created by and funded by the US government! I will take your answer as "no." Fair enough; you have forfeited your freedom and chosen to remain a slave. Do the chains weigh more lightly since you have chosen to wear them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #50 April 14, 2011 QuoteThe company doesn't sell the product at an even trade. They sell it at a proffit. Thus income is produced. What do you mean they don't sell it at an even trade? Why not? If an even trade for your time is what someone else is willing to pay you for it, then selling coal for what someone else is willing to pay for it is an even trade also. They had coal, now they have money. Just like you had time, now you have money.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
