alcohol crime reduction

[happythoughts 0]

when alcohol was illegal in the US, there was a lot of criminal violence associated. after legalization, did the criminals move to less violent crime ? was the violence a product of the competition for the big money involved ?

[BillyVance 34]

Well as far as the mafia and organized crime syndicates in the big cities were concerned, they merely shifted tactics. Instead of bootlegging illegal alcohol that had become legal, they went to shaking down local businesses for a "crime tax" or however you call it. You pay up, they let you live/continue running the business/etc. That was just part of the racket they were involved in, but they were just as ruthless after as they were during prohibition, if my history is correct.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[happythoughts 0]

i figured. crime pays better than legal work. it makes sense that they just change to a new form of crime. even in a good economy, there will always be criminals.

[Andy9o8 0]

Prohibition basically allowed the Mafia to come into its own in the US. Once Prohibition was repealed, the Mafia moved more heavily into stuff like heroin, gambling, prostitution, loan sharking and corruption of unions and the construction industry. And thus organized crime in the US has flourished ever since. Now there was organized crime in the US prior to Prohibition, but Prohibition is what allowed the mob(s) to mature organizationally. And then once the mature infrastructure was there ... it was there. And still is here.

[rehmwa 2]

hammocks in bars - simple solution, elegant - no more drunk driving

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[happythoughts 0]

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Prohibition basically allowed the Mafia to come into its own in the US. Once Prohibition was repealed, the Mafia moved more heavily into stuff like heroin, gambling, prostitution, loan sharking and corruption of unions and the construction industry. And thus organized crime in the US has flourished ever since. Now there was organized crime in the US prior to Prohibition, but Prohibition is what allowed the mob(s) to mature organizationally. And then once the mature infrastructure was there ... it was there. And still is here.

and now, alcohol and gambling are legal. still unsure why prostitution is illegal. we no longer need loan sharks, we have "credit card" companies who charge the same rates.

[marks2065 0]

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Prohibition basically allowed the Mafia to come into its own in the US. Once Prohibition was repealed, the Mafia moved more heavily into stuff like heroin, gambling, prostitution, loan sharking and corruption of unions and the construction industry. And thus organized crime in the US has flourished ever since. Now there was organized crime in the US prior to Prohibition, but Prohibition is what allowed the mob(s) to mature organizationally. And then once the mature infrastructure was there ... it was there. And still is here.

and now, alcohol and gambling are legal. still unsure why prostitution is illegal. we no longer need loan sharks, we have "credit card" companies who charge the same rates.

Loan sharking is coming back thanks to new credit card policy passed last year. those that can't get credit cards anymore are using payday loan places that advertise 50 to 500% for cash advances. Thanx Mr president.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

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and now, alcohol and gambling are legal. still unsure why prostitution is illegal. we no longer need loan sharks, we have "credit card" companies who charge the same rates.

Interesting point. I heard a radio story about the "Payday Lenders" and their practices. The story included a statement from a "Loan Shark" (the original payday lender) who said he would be embarassed to charge the rates those guys did.

The Loan Store won't break your leg if you don't pay up, but they charge about twice as much.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Andy9o8 0]

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Prohibition basically allowed the Mafia to come into its own in the US. Once Prohibition was repealed, the Mafia moved more heavily into stuff like heroin, gambling, prostitution, loan sharking and corruption of unions and the construction industry. And thus organized crime in the US has flourished ever since. Now there was organized crime in the US prior to Prohibition, but Prohibition is what allowed the mob(s) to mature organizationally. And then once the mature infrastructure was there ... it was there. And still is here.

and now, alcohol and gambling are legal. still unsure why prostitution is illegal. we no longer need loan sharks, we have "credit card" companies who charge the same rates.

Loan sharking is coming back thanks to new credit card policy passed last year. those that can't get credit cards anymore are using payday loan places that advertise 50 to 500% for cash advances. Thanx Mr president.

Please advise, with specifics, how Obama is responsible for this.

[happythoughts 0]

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Prohibition basically allowed the Mafia to come into its own in the US. Once Prohibition was repealed, the Mafia moved more heavily into stuff like heroin, gambling, prostitution, loan sharking and corruption of unions and the construction industry. And thus organized crime in the US has flourished ever since. Now there was organized crime in the US prior to Prohibition, but Prohibition is what allowed the mob(s) to mature organizationally. And then once the mature infrastructure was there ... it was there. And still is here.

and now, alcohol and gambling are legal. still unsure why prostitution is illegal. we no longer need loan sharks, we have "credit card" companies who charge the same rates.

Loan sharking is coming back thanks to new credit card policy passed last year. those that can't get credit cards anymore are using payday loan places that advertise 50 to 500% for cash advances. Thanx Mr president.

Please advise, with specifics, how Obama is responsible for this.

if there has ever been a one-sided issue, it should be
the promotion of any legislation that fights the destructive
and predatory lending practices of the credit card industry.

i would really be interested in what part of that legislation
was objectionable.

[marks2065 0]

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Prohibition basically allowed the Mafia to come into its own in the US. Once Prohibition was repealed, the Mafia moved more heavily into stuff like heroin, gambling, prostitution, loan sharking and corruption of unions and the construction industry. And thus organized crime in the US has flourished ever since. Now there was organized crime in the US prior to Prohibition, but Prohibition is what allowed the mob(s) to mature organizationally. And then once the mature infrastructure was there ... it was there. And still is here.

and now, alcohol and gambling are legal. still unsure why prostitution is illegal. we no longer need loan sharks, we have "credit card" companies who charge the same rates.

Loan sharking is coming back thanks to new credit card policy passed last year. those that can't get credit cards anymore are using payday loan places that advertise 50 to 500% for cash advances. Thanx Mr president.

Please advise, with specifics, how Obama is responsible for this.

The credit card reform act made many card companies raise intrest rates and deny credit cards to many, those that could no longer get credit cards becuse they were borderline credit now only have the payday places to get credit and those places are nothing but lone sharks. the story was on abc, cbs or nbc late last year. Chase bank increased interest rates by almost double on most of its cards. Many card companies cancelled cards to people with borderline credit. everyone on the left hailed the reform act that these big companies were evil and needed these regulations forced upon them, they just looked at the regulations and adjusted their policies to still get the income they wanted before the act took effect.

The people that were hurt the most were the ones that the bill wanted to protect. The left doesn't seem to understand that they need to look at what the consequences of their action will be.

[wmw999 2,132]

And the right needs to understand that just fixing the symptom (i.e. that people are using loan sharks, so that means that credit should be easier) isn't the answer, either.

Some root cause analysis is needed. Americans don't work or save like they used to in some ways. Not as many take the hard subjects in school, and they expect to begin life living as well as their parents ended life.

Which requires credit. What happened to the value of earning as you go along, living with a roommate if you can't afford a whole apartment, buying at resale shops, and driving a beater? People will do it for skydiving (look at any dz's ghetto ), but they won't do it for a better future.

People started "needing" credit in the late 1980's. Credit cards didn't even really exist until the 1960's, and that's when America became a power.

Frankly, some people are going to need to learn lessons the hard way. If you have less money, you have less stuff. The economy overall would be better if it could get used to the thought of people buying what they actually need, rather than whatever they want.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[happythoughts 0]

so, your point appears to be that nothing should be done because the whole lending system is not perfect ? most systems are fixed a piece at a time. the "payday advance" part can be next.

also, the changes were not specifically for the worst case card users.
companies need to disclose their rates.
companies should not be able to arbitrarily change rates.
being late one time should not change your rate to the max rate.
these changes affected everyone.

the card industry was primarily forced to abide by written and disclosed practices. every other business works with written agreements that do not change without consent of both parties.

[marks2065 0]

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And the right needs to understand that just fixing the symptom (i.e. that people are using loan sharks, so that means that credit should be easier) isn't the answer, either.

Some root cause analysis is needed. Americans don't work or save like they used to in some ways. Not as many take the hard subjects in school, and they expect to begin life living as well as their parents ended life.

Which requires credit. What happened to the value of earning as you go along, living with a roommate if you can't afford a whole apartment, buying at resale shops, and driving a beater? People will do it for skydiving (look at any dz's ghetto ), but they won't do it for a better future.

People started "needing" credit in the late 1980's. Credit cards didn't even really exist until the 1960's, and that's when America became a power.

Frankly, some people are going to need to learn lessons the hard way. If you have less money, you have less stuff. The economy overall would be better if it could get used to the thought of people buying what they actually need, rather than whatever they want.

Wendy P.

You are correct in that the card companies were not the problem, the people not controlling their spending is. The federal government has led by a poor example by not living within its means. Living on credit is the example that the leaders of this country have shown and what many people have followed. If the fed, state, and local gov's showed financial responsibility and preached the same that would filter down to the people. Same for parents so the children would have something positive to learn from. Having credit is not bad, not understanding the terms and conditions and using them for instant gratification is.

So the problem is with the people. If they cannot understand the terms and get hosed because they bought a 60 inch tv and defaulted on the payment they deserve what they got.

[marks2065 0]

so, your point appears to be that nothing should be done because the whole lending system is not perfect ? most systems are fixed a piece at a time. the "payday advance" part can be next.

also, the changes were not specifically for the worst case card users.
companies need to disclose their rates.
companies should not be able to arbitrarily change rates.
being late one time should not change your rate to the max rate.
these changes affected everyone.

the card industry was primarily forced to abide by written and disclosed practices. every other business works with written agreements that do not change without consent of both parties.

[happythoughts 0]

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so, your point appears to be that nothing should be done because the whole lending system is not perfect ? most systems are fixed a piece at a time. the "payday advance" part can be next.

also, the changes were not specifically for the worst case card users.
companies need to disclose their rates.
companies should not be able to arbitrarily change rates.
being late one time should not change your rate to the max rate.
these changes affected everyone.

the card industry was primarily forced to abide by written and disclosed practices. every other business works with written agreements that do not change without consent of both parties.

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No the people should be taught to read and understand the agreement they entered into and use the credit responsibly. the leaders should lead by example and show that they are fiscally responsible by not abusing credit by indebting every person in this country and their children. leading by example is something our government (and many adults) seems to think is not their responsibility.

short of hiring, or being, a lawyer, i doubt that 1 out of 50 people actually know what their credit card agreement actually means.
second, there were clauses that allowed the change of rates because of
events unrelated to the cardholders credit history. you could pay on time
and still get an increased rate.

you have the idea that the issue lies with irresponsible card use.
some of the changes are certainly designed to help that group.
however, most of the changes will help all cardholders.

a lot of this misinformation, or misdirected focus, was promoted by the card
industry to protect their practices.

[marks2065 0]

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so, your point appears to be that nothing should be done because the whole lending system is not perfect ? most systems are fixed a piece at a time. the "payday advance" part can be next.

also, the changes were not specifically for the worst case card users.
companies need to disclose their rates.
companies should not be able to arbitrarily change rates.
being late one time should not change your rate to the max rate.
these changes affected everyone.

the card industry was primarily forced to abide by written and disclosed practices. every other business works with written agreements that do not change without consent of both parties.

Quote

No the people should be taught to read and understand the agreement they entered into and use the credit responsibly. the leaders should lead by example and show that they are fiscally responsible by not abusing credit by indebting every person in this country and their children. leading by example is something our government (and many adults) seems to think is not their responsibility.

short of hiring, or being, a lawyer, i doubt that 1 out of 50 people actually know what their credit card agreement actually means.
second, there were clauses that allowed the change of rates because of
events unrelated to the cardholders credit history. you could pay on time
and still get an increased rate.

you have the idea that the issue lies with irresponsible card use.
some of the changes are certainly designed to help that group.
however, most of the changes will help all cardholders.

a lot of this misinformation, or misdirected focus, was promoted by the card
industry to protect their practices.

Raising rates to card holders is a help? the only thing that happened to me was I canceled my chase cards becuse of higher rates.

[happythoughts 0]

that is the misinformation that i spoke of.

the issue was that the rates were being arbitrarily raised without
informing a customer. or raising them because you lived in a geographic zone. the rates were already that high, they just weren't published.
also, there were fee schedules that added to that.

the changes were made to correct these problems. it caused a revenue
problem for the companies because they had been abusing the process.
people were getting hidden rate hikes and fees that they overlooked.
you need to read information from multiple sources.
these laws help the consumer.l

[marks2065 0]

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that is the misinformation that i spoke of.

the issue was that the rates were being arbitrarily raised without
informing a customer. or raising them because you lived in a geographic zone. the rates were already that high, they just weren't published.
also, there were fee schedules that added to that.

the changes were made to correct these problems. it caused a revenue
problem for the companies because they had been abusing the process.
people were getting hidden rate hikes and fees that they overlooked.
you need to read information from multiple sources.
these laws help the consumer.l

the changes I talked about happened because of the passage of the bill not the reason for the bill. since the law didn't take effect until 6 months after passage the card companies raised rates and canceled cards because of the new law because they new they couldn't later. Many people (like me) with good credit and good card rates lost because the time between passing and enacting the law gave the companies time to adjust their situation so they would not loose out. also the rates now are higher for most with good credit because of this law.

[billvon 2,412]

>also the rates now are higher for most with good credit because of this law.

The rates are no different than they would have been otherwise. But people now KNOW how high they are, and thus they seem higher, compared to the scenario years ago when many people didn't even know what they were paying. That is a good thing.

[marks2065 0]

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>also the rates now are higher for most with good credit because of this law.

The rates are no different than they would have been otherwise. But people now KNOW how high they are, and thus they seem higher, compared to the scenario years ago when many people didn't even know what they were paying. That is a good thing.

no they are not, those that new the system and had good credit benifited with low rates now they have to pay more. the ones that wouldn't educate themselves and didn't use them responsibly were the ones that got charged the high rates.

[wmw999 2,132]

Just because someone said on the radio that the Democrats made credit card rates go up doesn't make it so.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,412]

>Just because someone said on the radio that the Democrats made
>credit card rates go up doesn't make it so.

But they said it on the TV too! How can it _not_ be true?

[marks2065 0]

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Just because someone said on the radio that the Democrats made credit card rates go up doesn't make it so.

Wendy P.

I didn't say someone on the radio said that. The show I watched was on one of the network channels and with my credit cards through chase it was chase that said what the reason was.

[happythoughts 0]

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Just because someone said on the radio that the Democrats made credit card rates go up doesn't make it so.

Wendy P.

I didn't say someone on the radio said that. The show I watched was on one of the network channels and with my credit cards through chase it was chase that said what the reason was.

Fox news did an interview with Connie Prater of creditcards.com
(neither a leftist info source)

It is a fairly balanced discussion and addressed your concerns.
Rates went up, but mainly because cards went from fixed to variable rates.
All of a sudden, hidden costs were not hidden.
you are overlooking many other primary facets.
payments pay off the highest int card first.
you have 21 days to pay before a late fee.
all changes require 45 days notice.
stopping "universal default" (that isn't even logical).
people with poor credit should get not aggressive marketing.

go to creditcard.com and review the pos/neg side of this.