mnealtx 0 #101 January 9, 2011 Quote Quote What keeps the gas from blowing the weld out as it's being made? Magic! Not really. It is actually a matter of physics. First, keep in mind that the strength of the pipe was selected with a safety factor in mind...it has "reserve strength". Second, the area to be welded is completely inspected to be certain there are no discontnuities that could lead to rupture if welded on. Third, the weld process and parameters are chosen so as to maximize fusion with no more penetration than is needed. Fusion area is what matters, not penetration. Last, but by no means least, is that while the outside of the pipe is being taken to a molten state in a small localized region, the gas flowing through the pipe is acting as a coolant on the inside. This effect can be so great that sometimes the hardest part of the job is preheating the pipe so a weld can be made that won't cool too fast and trap hydrogen in the steel and result in cracking. Done right it is very reliable and safe. Done wrong... Ah...so you're welding something on the OUTSIDE of the pipe - when you said 'hot tap', I thought something like another pipe joining into the existing one, or something of that nature.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #102 January 9, 2011 I like these threads, they are so painful I can't stand it My job is (insert what the hell ever) and it's IMPORTANT - we EARN our money. Everyone else sucks. Agree that your job is important - you should get MORE MONEY. But mine doesn't suck - all the rest do, except yours, and mine. ((((technical blather and details))))) Only (whatever) works hard, they should get MORE MONEY blah blah blah supply and demand people - everybody works hard and everybody wants more than the other guy - it doesn't matter if it's super hard or someone puts in a ton of hours, or even it's "fair" by one person's nutty subjective standard so what's the point of the thread so far? who's trying to prove what? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #103 January 9, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Sorry, anyway you look at it... in the end, a welders expertise is NOT as valuable as a surgeons expertise. Since I've never had surgery, I'd say that welders have had far more impact on my life than surgeons. uhg.... I've also never had surgery... but I have cashiers, cooks, waiters etc.. service me every day, maybe their training and expertise is as valuable too right? Bad service in a restaurant or bank does not generally have the same negative impact as bad welds in a nuclear power plant or bad welds in the front forks of a motorbike.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #104 January 9, 2011 Quote Quote Quote What keeps the gas from blowing the weld out as it's being made? Magic! Not really. It is actually a matter of physics. First, keep in mind that the strength of the pipe was selected with a safety factor in mind...it has "reserve strength". Second, the area to be welded is completely inspected to be certain there are no discontnuities that could lead to rupture if welded on. Third, the weld process and parameters are chosen so as to maximize fusion with no more penetration than is needed. Fusion area is what matters, not penetration. Last, but by no means least, is that while the outside of the pipe is being taken to a molten state in a small localized region, the gas flowing through the pipe is acting as a coolant on the inside. This effect can be so great that sometimes the hardest part of the job is preheating the pipe so a weld can be made that won't cool too fast and trap hydrogen in the steel and result in cracking. Done right it is very reliable and safe. Done wrong... Ah...so you're welding something on the OUTSIDE of the pipe - when you said 'hot tap', I thought something like another pipe joining into the existing one, or something of that nature. It is. A hot tap is a method of attaching another pipe, fitting, valve, etc. to an existing pipe that is in use without relieving pressure, draining, or stopping flow. There are a few cases where welding is prohibited such as high pressures, substances that can become unstable from the heat, etc. Nothing quite like welding on a big ol' pipe full of gasoline! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #105 January 9, 2011 Quote Or construction machinery operator. $40K to just sit in a chair and push buttons. Sounds like just about every IT job description. "No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #106 January 9, 2011 QuoteI like these threads, they are so painful I can't stand it My job is (insert what the hell ever) and it's IMPORTANT - we EARN our money. Everyone else sucks. Agree that your job is important - you should get MORE MONEY. But mine doesn't suck - all the rest do, except yours, and mine. ((((technical blather and details))))) Only (whatever) works hard, they should get MORE MONEY blah blah blah supply and demand people - everybody works hard and everybody wants more than the other guy - it doesn't matter if it's super hard or someone puts in a ton of hours, or even it's "fair" by one person's nutty subjective standard so what's the point of the thread so far? who's trying to prove what? Fact is, Bill, that some jobs have been placed on a pedestal while others, on which our society depends very heavily, are discounted.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #107 January 9, 2011 QuoteI like these threads, they are so painful I can't stand it My job is (insert what the hell ever) and it's IMPORTANT - we EARN our money. Everyone else sucks. Agree that your job is important - you should get MORE MONEY. But mine doesn't suck - all the rest do, except yours, and mine. ((((technical blather and details))))) Only (whatever) works hard, they should get MORE MONEY blah blah blah supply and demand people - everybody works hard and everybody wants more than the other guy - it doesn't matter if it's super hard or someone puts in a ton of hours, or even it's "fair" by one person's nutty subjective standard so what's the point of the thread so far? who's trying to prove what? It's a pissing contest. Fill yer hands you SOB and commence emptying yer bladder!HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #108 January 9, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote What keeps the gas from blowing the weld out as it's being made? Magic! Not really. It is actually a matter of physics. First, keep in mind that the strength of the pipe was selected with a safety factor in mind...it has "reserve strength". Second, the area to be welded is completely inspected to be certain there are no discontnuities that could lead to rupture if welded on. Third, the weld process and parameters are chosen so as to maximize fusion with no more penetration than is needed. Fusion area is what matters, not penetration. Last, but by no means least, is that while the outside of the pipe is being taken to a molten state in a small localized region, the gas flowing through the pipe is acting as a coolant on the inside. This effect can be so great that sometimes the hardest part of the job is preheating the pipe so a weld can be made that won't cool too fast and trap hydrogen in the steel and result in cracking. Done right it is very reliable and safe. Done wrong... Ah...so you're welding something on the OUTSIDE of the pipe - when you said 'hot tap', I thought something like another pipe joining into the existing one, or something of that nature. It is. A hot tap is a method of attaching another pipe, fitting, valve, etc. to an existing pipe that is in use without relieving pressure, draining, or stopping flow. There are a few cases where welding is prohibited such as high pressures, substances that can become unstable from the heat, etc. Nothing quite like welding on a big ol' pipe full of gasoline! Ok, you cut a hole in an active pipe, stuck in another pipe, but the gas/liquid that is flowing out around the new pipe isn't going to catch on fire or blow the slag puddle out of the weld?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #109 January 9, 2011 It is interesting to note that the jobs we have put on a pedestal are relative newcomers. Lawyers have been around for only a few hundred years, doctors who can actually help a patient even less. Society could continue even if they all quit working. Not to say we wouldn't suffer, but we would go on. Meanwhile, the trades that are the oldest are often looked down upon. Farmers and hunters/fishermen are mostly underpaid and overworked. Yet if all of them were to quit their jobs...where would the other 95% of the population get their food? They wouldn't and most likely without farmers and hunters/fishermen most of the worlds people would die of starvation within a few months.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #110 January 9, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote What keeps the gas from blowing the weld out as it's being made? Magic! Not really. It is actually a matter of physics. First, keep in mind that the strength of the pipe was selected with a safety factor in mind...it has "reserve strength". Second, the area to be welded is completely inspected to be certain there are no discontnuities that could lead to rupture if welded on. Third, the weld process and parameters are chosen so as to maximize fusion with no more penetration than is needed. Fusion area is what matters, not penetration. Last, but by no means least, is that while the outside of the pipe is being taken to a molten state in a small localized region, the gas flowing through the pipe is acting as a coolant on the inside. This effect can be so great that sometimes the hardest part of the job is preheating the pipe so a weld can be made that won't cool too fast and trap hydrogen in the steel and result in cracking. Done right it is very reliable and safe. Done wrong... Ah...so you're welding something on the OUTSIDE of the pipe - when you said 'hot tap', I thought something like another pipe joining into the existing one, or something of that nature. It is. A hot tap is a method of attaching another pipe, fitting, valve, etc. to an existing pipe that is in use without relieving pressure, draining, or stopping flow. There are a few cases where welding is prohibited such as high pressures, substances that can become unstable from the heat, etc. Nothing quite like welding on a big ol' pipe full of gasoline! Ok, you cut a hole in an active pipe, stuck in another pipe, but the gas/liquid that is flowing out around the new pipe isn't going to catch on fire or blow the slag puddle out of the weld? A special fitting is welded onto the pipe. In some cases it is like a clamshell and ecloses the full circumference. Once the welding is finished a holesaw like device inside the fitting is used to cut a hole into the existing pipe. A valve between the new hole and the saw is shut to seal the pipe, the saw removed, and whatever attachment is desired is attached. The valve is then reopened. This explains the process and has some pics. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.easervices.com/images/ls4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.easervices.com/tap.htm&usg=__02WzXxErGEgQxbKkc-TZCZ_HEHI=&h=853&w=640&sz=102&hl=en&start=9&sig2=URrXzi7fUDxV2C9nE7s2YQ&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=wCP4LzWHyZTFHM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=109&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhot%2Btap%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=AQkpTaniMMOC8gbSmtiJCgHAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #111 January 9, 2011 I appreciate the info - that makes a lot more sense.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #112 January 9, 2011 QuoteI appreciate the info - that makes a lot more sense. I should have posted a link to begin with. My apologies.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #113 January 9, 2011 QuoteLawyers have been around for only a few hundred years Closer to 2,000 years. Ancient Athens. Now back to our show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #114 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteLawyers have been around for only a few hundred years Closer to 2,000 years. Ancient Athens. Now back to our show. Oldest occupation in the world . . . Oh wait that is prostitu . . . Meh - Mostly the same thing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #115 January 9, 2011 Cooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #116 January 9, 2011 QuoteCooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #117 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteCooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy. Chicken/egg argument. If welders had the same assets to protect as surgeons, their liability insurance would be higher.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #118 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteCooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy. Chicken/egg argument. If welders had the same assets to protect as surgeons, their liability insurance would be higher. Assets = Value last time I checked. Welders don't have as much valuable assets hence the risk is less and the fees associated are less. Not that hard to follow.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #119 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteCooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy. Hahaha... I knew they'd try to come up with something, not sure how it helped his argument tho. They keep trying to spin this off in different directions but you can't argue the bold statement above.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #120 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteCooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy. Again, it depends. Quite often we are required to purchase liability coverage for projects. One good example was a custom trailer to educate kids about nature. Total project cost was about 250K. Over 50k of that was for insurance.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #121 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy. Chicken/egg argument. If welders had the same assets to protect as surgeons, their liability insurance would be higher. Assets = Value last time I checked. Welders don't have as much valuable assets hence the risk is less and the fees associated are less. Not that hard to follow. Dude, the man had a good argument going and you just pissed all over it! Assets do not equal value. As I have stated before, operating a fab shop that can handle almost any machining and joining need is not cheap any way you look at it. One safety critical part leaving my shop with a bad weld can lead to bankruptcy, plant closure, and lots of people out of work...not to mention injuries and deaths as a direct result of failure. Not as much to lose? Think again. A surgeon screws up his patient dies. One of my weldors screws up and MANY people can die.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #122 January 9, 2011 Unless you live near a nuke plant. Or waste water treatment facility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #123 January 9, 2011 Blessed are the Piemakers for they make the pies. "No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #124 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy. Chicken/egg argument. If welders had the same assets to protect as surgeons, their liability insurance would be higher. Assets = Value last time I checked. Welders don't have as much valuable assets hence the risk is less and the fees associated are less. Not that hard to follow. In case you hadn't noticed, lawyers go after the deep pockets, not those without significant assets.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #125 January 9, 2011 Quote A surgeon screws up his patient dies. One of my weldors screws up and MANY people can die. Quote Unless you live near a nuke plant. Or waste water treatment facility. Still doesn't change this: ..,welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
