I'm beginning to re-think my views on taxation.

[rhaig 0]

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And if the middle class hadn't defaulted on their home loans by the millions, there wouldn't have been a need for a bailout to begin with.

and they defaulted because the super rich coveted and then accumulated their neighbours money. at the same time they haven't paid their fair share in taxes. next they want to launder their gains tax free to their non working children. result - the economic mess we're in.

no, they defaulted because they bought houses they couldn't afford under terms they didn't understand or didn't think through.

Why the banks gave them loans they couldn't afford is a whole different issue.

--
Rob

[rushmc 18]

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First, you hate on the rich, now women.

and why do you hate the poor?

Everyone has their station in life.

There is no hate for it - just reality.

then accept the reality that the super rich and their children will have to pay their fair share of taxes...

Why steal from them?
Are you that much of a theif?
How would you like it if Someone less fortunate than you stole your money?

Taxes are not stealing, they are permitted in the US Constitution.

Why do you hate the US Constitution?

I want to know why all the conservatives here feel that every dollar they can acquire they deserve to keep.
Talk about wanting something for nothing.. who the hell do they expect to pay for their lifestyle of living in a first world country with pesky things like roads, schools, and all the other services they EXPECT.

What conservative here has posted that this is what they want?

Nearly every post from the usual suspects is dripping with conservative greed

So in other words, you can't show any posts saying that.

Both of ya....

Caint see yalls forest for dem silly trees


Psst its drippin all over the place... seriously

Link the posts or admit you lied

where did any conservative or anyone who posts here said they did not want to pay any taxes?

Post it

Or admit you made it up

Your post below

You said the following

Quote

Did you lie or has anyone stated they want to keep all their money from the gov

IE: pay no taxes

Well?

Rub those brain cells ya got together.. come on now.. who is CONSTANTLY WHINING about taxes and anything but defense spending????

CONSERVETARDS

The price for living in a first world country with all the services you expect is TAXES... if you can donothing but WHINE about having to pay and pay for all those pesky things YOU are the ones LYING about your motivation to keep every red cent you can get your mits on.

Personally I do not mind paying to live in a first world country.

So you lied

Thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

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Did you lie or has anyone stated they want to keep all their money from the gov

IE: pay no taxes

Well?

All those who claim taxes = theft are implicitly making that claim.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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And if the middle class hadn't defaulted on their home loans by the millions, there wouldn't have been a need for a bailout to begin with.

and they defaulted because the super rich coveted and then accumulated their neighbours money. at the same time they haven't paid their fair share in taxes. next they want to launder their gains tax free to their non working children. result - the economic mess we're in.

no, they defaulted because they bought houses they couldn't afford under terms they didn't understand or didn't think through.

Why the banks gave them loans they couldn't afford is a whole different issue.

To repeat, the magnitude of the meltdown far exceeds the magnitude of the defaults, due to actions of the banks, Wall Street, etc.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rhaig 0]

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What was the motivation to make so many bad loans?

Blue Skies,
DJ

they were told to extend loans to people to whom they wouldn't normally loan money. That goes back to slick-willie. This fuck-up goes way back.

--
Rob

[rushmc 18]

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Did you lie or has anyone stated they want to keep all their money from the gov

IE: pay no taxes

Well?

All those who claim taxes = theft are implicitly making that claim.

Maybe
if that was the claim

but you leave out the context
as usual a half truth

You show me dear sir
Where has anyone here ever stated they do not want to pay any tax at all?

And do it in the context of the thread

You will not be able to

So you support the lie Amazon made and then you perpetuate it

Shameful

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

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What was the motivation to make so many bad loans?

Blue Skies,
DJ

they were told to extend loans to people to whom they wouldn't normally loan money. That goes back to slick-willie. This fuck-up goes way back.

Default rate on CRA loans is less than the default rate on non-mandated NINJA loans. The NINJA loans were 100% the fault of the banks, not government actions.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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Did you lie or has anyone stated they want to keep all their money from the gov

IE: pay no taxes

Well?

All those who claim taxes = theft are implicitly making that claim.

Maybe
if that was the claim

but you leave out the context
as usual a half truth

You show me dear sir
Where has anyone here ever stated they do not want to pay any tax at all?

And do it in the context of the thread

You will not be able to

So you support the lie Amazon made and then you perpetuate it

Shameful

So in addition to hating the Constitution you also support theft. Interesting.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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What was the motivation to make so many bad loans?

Blue Skies,
DJ

they were told to extend loans to people to whom they wouldn't normally loan money. That goes back to slick-willie. This fuck-up goes way back.

Actually is goes back to Carter
Clinton just doubled down on it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

I am not the one that is all BUTT HURT over TAXES being paid by those who can afford it based on their use of MORE of the goods and services of our society.

If you benefit more from all the things that the taxes pay for... you need to pay for it

If on the other hand you EXPECT the people who are in the majority( this includes the 99% of Americans of which everyone I know of on this site fits into) and who have the least in this society who do not have the money to pay for those things you EXPECT of our society such as we have now ... I think the term for that is GOAT FUCK STUPID for those who have been brainwashed into thinking this is a good system. ( except for those who thought it up and benefit so much. fior them its fucking BRILLIANT )

[rushmc 18]

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Did you lie or has anyone stated they want to keep all their money from the gov

IE: pay no taxes

Well?

All those who claim taxes = theft are implicitly making that claim.

Maybe
if that was the claim

but you leave out the context
as usual a half truth

You show me dear sir
Where has anyone here ever stated they do not want to pay any tax at all?

And do it in the context of the thread

You will not be able to

So you support the lie Amazon made and then you perpetuate it

Shameful

So in addition to hating the Constitution you also support theft. Interesting.

You are takeing posting lessons from dreamy now?
Your desperation is show John

You just livin the lie I guess

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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I am not the one that is all BUTT HURT over TAXES being paid by those who can afford it based on their use of MORE of the goods and services of our society.

If you benefit more from all the things that the taxes pay for... you need to pay for it

If on the other hand you EXPECT the people who are in the majority( this includes the 99% of Americans of which everyone I know of on this site fits into) and who have the least in this society who do not have the money to pay for those things you EXPECT of our society such as we have now ... I think the term for that is GOAT FUCK STUPID for those who have been brainwashed into thinking this is a good system. ( except for those who thought it up and benefit so much. fior them its fucking BRILLIANT )

No one has said that they do not want to pay taxes to said services

But you posted the lie that there some mystical poster here said that to be the case

And then genalized all conservatives think the same
Another lie


The brainwashing and anger is yours

Not mine

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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I am not the one that is all BUTT HURT over TAXES being paid by those who can afford it based on their use of MORE of the goods and services of our society.

If you benefit more from all the things that the taxes pay for... you need to pay for it

If on the other hand you EXPECT the people who are in the majority( this includes the 99% of Americans of which everyone I know of on this site fits into) and who have the least in this society who do not have the money to pay for those things you EXPECT of our society such as we have now ... I think the term for that is GOAT FUCK STUPID for those who have been brainwashed into thinking this is a good system. ( except for those who thought it up and benefit so much. fior them its fucking BRILLIANT )

No one has said that they do not want to pay taxes to said services

But you posted the lie that there some mystical poster here said that to be the case

And then genalized all conservatives think the same
Another lie


The brainwashing and anger is yours

Not mine

How many times have you guys trotted out the TAXES=THEFT RED TARPON have we had posted here again and again by the usual suspects

[rushmc 18]

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I am not the one that is all BUTT HURT over TAXES being paid by those who can afford it based on their use of MORE of the goods and services of our society.

If you benefit more from all the things that the taxes pay for... you need to pay for it

If on the other hand you EXPECT the people who are in the majority( this includes the 99% of Americans of which everyone I know of on this site fits into) and who have the least in this society who do not have the money to pay for those things you EXPECT of our society such as we have now ... I think the term for that is GOAT FUCK STUPID for those who have been brainwashed into thinking this is a good system. ( except for those who thought it up and benefit so much. fior them its fucking BRILLIANT )

No one has said that they do not want to pay taxes to said services

But you posted the lie that there some mystical poster here said that to be the case

And then genalized all conservatives think the same
Another lie


The brainwashing and anger is yours

Not mine

How many times have you guys trotted out the TAXES=THEFT RED TARPON have we had posted here again and again by the usual suspects

Context is eveything my dear

The debate is at what level it becomes theft
Please do better (and that has been the context of this thread based on one type of tax that I do consider theft and that is the death tax. Show me where I mean I should pay no tax in this context?)

back your usual suspects and generalities coments to try and wiggle out of your lie now?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

No need... you guys have spoken VOLUMES to prove the point already that YOU are the ones who want to decide what YOUR taxes are spent for...


MORE WAR .. and bugger the rest of your countrymen and women or anyone that needs to use roads.. schools ... police... fire.... and the list goes on and on..

I hear the taxes in Somalia.. are low... why dont ya move there and take your greedy buddies with ya... that way you can keep every dinar you can "acquire"

[rushmc 18]

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No need... you guys have spoken VOLUMES to prove the point already that YOU are the ones who want to decide what YOUR taxes are spent for...


MORE WAR .. and bugger the rest of your countrymen and women or anyone that needs to use roads.. schools ... police... fire.... and the list goes on and on..

I hear the taxes in Somalia.. are low... why dont ya move there and take your greedy buddies with ya... that way you can keep every dinar you can "acquire"

Put down the shovel
climb the ladder
and back away

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

No need... you guys have spoken VOLUMES to prove the point already that YOU are the ones who want to decide what YOUR taxes are spent for...


MORE WAR .. and bugger the rest of your countrymen and women or anyone that needs to use roads.. schools ... police... fire.... and the list goes on and on..

I hear the taxes in Somalia.. are low... why dont ya move there and take your greedy buddies with ya... that way you can keep every dinar you can "acquire"

Put down the shovel
climb the ladder
and back away

Perceptions

Actually the view from up here on the hill is pretty clear

[billvon 2,400]

>so why didn't individual banks just take their losses and carry on?

They tried to. But as soon as people started to default, then their products started losing money, and they couldn't sell any new ones. They responded by raising the rates on their ARM's to the remaining mortgage holders, which caused more defaults. (This actually happened indirectly via the prime lending rate changes; same effect.) And the vicious cycle began. More defaults = higher rates = lower real estate values = more defaults.

Had people not defaulted, the cycle would never have started. The banks would have continued to make money off mortgage products. The real estate market would have still peaked, but without the loss of value in credit derivatives, the resulting economic collapse would not have been triggered. (Might have been triggered by something else, of course; bubbles have a way of bursting.)

>that's right the super rich have already packaged up all these mortgages . . .

The "super rich" lost billions, so that particular conspiracy theory doesn't hold much water. Heinlein's Razor applies here:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

[dj123 0]

[replyPersonally I do not mind paying to live in a first world country.

[dj123 0]

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Put down the shovel
climb the ladder
and back away

Uhm Marc, this is a bit off topic but ,
you studied law didn't you?
Can you find anything in the US tax code that requires wage earners to file or pay Federal Income Tax.
Blue Skies,
DJ

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[dreamdancer 0]

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Had people not defaulted, the cycle would never have started.

there wasn't enough money in the economy for people to pay the interest. you can't squeeze money from a rock. you still haven't explained how the banking system froze worldwide. that wasn't part of a 'cycle' - that was a falling off the cycle.

(meanwhile the super rich paid less and less of their fair share of taxes and accumulated more and more in their accounts)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,400]

>there wasn't enough money in the economy for people to pay the interest.

Agreed. And if people hadn't been stupid enough to get loans that their little part of the economy couldn't pay for, then they would have been a lot happier - and would have avoided the credit meltdown.

>you still haven't explained how the banking system froze worldwide.

Because once credit became a big risk, it was no longer readily available - and many companies rely on credit to operate. The world economy is now very interconnected; you cannot (for example) lose the US credit market, or the Mideast oil market, and have it not impact the rest of the world.

[dreamdancer 0]

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The "super rich" lost billions, so that particular conspiracy theory doesn't hold much water. Heinlein's Razor applies here:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

the super rich are still in position - and even richer (that's odd isn't it considering what the rest of us are paying). and i agree that the banks were criminally stupid.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rushmc 18]

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Put down the shovel
climb the ladder
and back away

Uhm Marc, this is a bit off topic but ,
you studied law didn't you?
Can you find anything in the US tax code that requires wage earners to file or pay Federal Income Tax.
Blue Skies,
DJ

Nope
Not a lawyer
Went to tech school for line work after some college

but I think I know what you are posting about
Have a question or comment so we can continue?

(I am curious where you are going with this)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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[dreamdancer 0]

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>there wasn't enough money in the economy for people to pay the interest.

Agreed. And if people hadn't been stupid enough to get loans that their little part of the economy couldn't pay for, then they would have been a lot happier - and would have avoided the credit meltdown.

it's the banks job to match loans to what the economy can bear. they did the equivalent of overbooking a passenger jet and then blaming the ticket holders for buying 'too many tickets'. if only some of them had realised that there were not enough seats. stupid ticket buyers.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding