Who is behind Wikileaks?

[johenrik 0]

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Given that this whole issue has now escalated into economic terrorism

Wikileaks has not done any economic terrorism. Just because supporters of Wikileaks decide to fight for freedom if press themselves doesn't meen Wikileaks should be held responsible for it.

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I have to believe they need to be removed entirely

Do you think it's a crime to let you know that your tax money is spent this way:
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php

-Jo Henrik

[normiss 622]

I think it's a crime to release classified documents that put our citizens and those of other nations lives at risk.

It's like receiving stolen goods to me, all involved should be charged.

[johenrik 0]

I guess all news papers and TV channels needs to be charged now then.

What do you think about releasing secret information that the Chinese and North-Korean government are hiding for their citizens? Is it right that people are seriously prosecuted for that?

I find it ironic that Hillary in China earlier this year said this:
"(the US government) had defended the right of people to freely access information, and said that the more freely information flows the stronger societies become."

I agree with what Hillary say, I just wish she meant it.

-Jo Henrik

[popsjumper 2]

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I think it's a crime to release classified documents that put our citizens and those of other nations lives at risk.

It's like receiving stolen goods to me, all involved should be charged.

As far as releasing classified documents, well, let's just say that we disagree.
I am trying to resist being one of America's blind sheep or lemmings, if you will.

As far as naming names....
-naming informers? Ouch, that's hard to defend.
-the named is the one doing the stupid shit? Bust his ass!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[normiss 622]

There is always a risk of releasing information that aides our enemies.
This puts us all at risk.
There is a lot of classified information that should never be released.
I've never been a sheeple, I just understand and support defending our nation and our citizens from those that wish us harm.

[johenrik 0]

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This puts us all at risk.

Here is an interesting article from BBC about the dangers of the release:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11882092

I believe the argument of putting lives at risk is mainly to have people facing their anger towards the messengers instead of focusing on the actual content of the information.

-Jo Henrik

[normiss 622]

So you did catch in the details that the NY Times HAS IN FACT redacted information so as to remove that risk?

"One thing the experts appear to agree on is that the leaks will make it more difficult for US diplomats and human intelligence operatives to do their jobs. Although that does not present an immediate threat to American lives, strained international relations may create a more dangerous world."

""At the very least, they will make governments like Pakistan and Yemen and others, which are collaborating with the US in the battle against terrorism, more reluctant to co-operate.

"It's harming some of the vital activities that the US government, the UK government or others engage in, which are protecting us against terrorism.""

So, as I previously stated and stand by those comments still...there IS a risk the release of classified information puts us all at risk.
I never said anyone had died or was in any imminent danger, but we are all clearly placed at risk by the release of some of the information.

Pay attention to the details.

[popsjumper 2]

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"One thing the experts appear to agree on is that the leaks will make it more difficult for US diplomats and human intelligence operatives to do their jobs.

True for the dips...because they only know how to operate in deceitful ways. It's tough to be upfront and honest in dealing with others, eh?

For the humint, ahhh I don't see any differences unless the informants start getting themselves knocked off....and I wouldn't put it past the CIA/FBI to do the job just to justify the "endangering lives" claim.

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So, as I previously stated and stand by those comments still...there IS a risk the release of classified information puts us all at risk.

Maybe so. I still believe the exposure of the underhanded, dishonest and sneaky shit our g'ment hides from us is more important in the big scheme of things. Maybe some of this will wake people up to what their friendly g'ment reps are doing to us behind our back.

OTOH, nah...Americans won't even stand up to what the politicos are doing to us right in front of our faces.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[antonija 0]

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So, as I previously stated and stand by those comments still...there IS a risk the release of classified information puts us all at risk.
I never said anyone had died or was in any imminent danger, but we are all clearly placed at risk by the release of some of the information.

So... kill a guy because you think that you might be at a potential risk from... something not defined yet. I'm guessing Russians (or their modern communist equivalent) invading US or something. In other words: kill a guy for not doing anything illegal or causing any deaths or injuries. Just because you favorite TV clown said so.

On the other hand, I don't see anyone demanding actions taken against people calling for this guys death. AFAIK calling for someones death IS illegal even in great, free nations such as USofA. The mystery of why these people are not dealt with the same way everyone else would be. I guess some are a little tiny bit more free (and a lot greater) that the rest of earths (or US' for that matter) population.

BTW, that clintons speech in china in Jan 2010 sounds priceless if you compare it to her recent statements. For everything else, there is mastercard (well, not anymore ).

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[johenrik 0]

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"One thing the experts appear to agree on is that the leaks will make it more difficult for US diplomats and human intelligence operatives to do their jobs. "

Of course this is correct. Now that the rest of the world have solid facts that the US government is deceiving, lying, breaking international treaties and are responsible for war crimes it will of course change the way people deal with the US. But I don't think it's a bad thing that a country is held responsible for it's actions.

If you want the rest of the world to treat you like a saint, then act like a saint.

-Jo Henrik

[popsjumper 2]

Accusers outed:

http://www.inmalafide.com/2010/12/08/anna-ardin-sofia-wilens-contact-information-and-addresses/

I wonder if the CIA tie-in has anything to do with it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy9o8 0]

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I don't see anyone demanding actions taken against people calling for this guys death.

Look more carefully:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40467957/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

http://digg.com/news/politics/fox_news_calls_for_assassination_of_julian_assange_video

[johenrik 0]

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...kileaks_in_security/

His own lawyer is on his side? Gee, what a surprise.

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http://digg.com/...julian_assange_video

How can Fox News be so stupid that they accuse a non-american for being a traitor? You can't be a traitor towards any other countries than your own. They also accuse him of breaking American law. American law is only valid inside America. This is pretty basic, and I'm sure Fox News knows this.

If an American breaks Saudi Arabic law while in the US, can he then be prosecuted by the Saudi Arab government? If so there will be a lot of people getting their head chopped off for blasphemy here in the Speakers Corner.

I think the American officials and main stream are acting pretty horrible in this case. The only exception is Ron Pauls great comment on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywoInPNXZJk

-Jo Henrik

[Andy9o8 0]

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His own lawyer is on his side? Gee, what a surprise.

The context is: contrary to the post to which I was responding, people have indeed been publicly calling for his death: the former Canadian govt minister; Fox "News"; Sarah Palin has said he should be "hunted down like al-Quaeda", etc.

[johenrik 0]

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The context is: contrary to the post to which I was responding, people have indeed been publicly calling for his death: the former Canadian govt minister; Fox "News"; Sarah Palin has said he should be "hunted down like al-Quaeda", etc.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but English is not my native language.
As far as I can see antonija is asking for action taken towards the people who publicly ask for his death. I.e. punishing Fox News, Sarah Palin, former Canadian govt minister and so on because calling for someones death is illegal in the US.

-Jo Henrik

[matthewcline 0]

"Tom Flanagan, a former aide to the Canadian prime minister, has called for Assange's assassination, while former Alaska governor Palin said he was an "anti-American operative with blood on his hands" in a Facebook message Monday.

Mike Huckabee, like Palin a potential Republican presidential candidate, also said the person who leaked the information to Assange should be tried for treason and executed. "

So one Canadian Politician called for his death.

One American Politician Called for his SOURCE to be Prosecuted and then Executed.

Another American Politician called for him to be treated no better than Al Jazeera's pretend reporters.

And Four Faux News idiots said he should be assassinated.

For any one trying to keep track.

I think if any thing he is no better than any state sponsored spy and should be tried under those laws. He is the "Handler" in this case though, not the person who actually stole the classified Documents.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[johenrik 0]

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I think if any thing he is no better than any state sponsored spy and should be tried under those laws. He is the "Handler" in this case though, not the person who actually stole the classified Documents.

The leaks have proven that American diplomats do lots of spying. Do you think we in Norway should treat the American ambassador as a "state sponsored spy" and execute him? Because you don't think one set of rules in the world should work for America and another set of rules for everyone else, do you?

-Jo Henrik

[matthewcline 0]

I have not read all the documents, but the ones I have read are all "Opinions".

The State Employee gives an Opinion on a particular person, or explains an attitude at an event. Not direct spying and and stealing of secrets.

But if a person was spying and got caught. You live by the sword and die by the sword.

Again, I think he is the Enabler and Handler but not the actual spy.

If he broke an actual prosecutable law, prosecute. I would expect no less for any one else.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[johenrik 0]

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But if a person was spying and got caught. You live by the sword and die by the sword.

Quite a lot of American diplomats will be killed if the rest of the world was as blood thirsty as you.

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If he broke an actual prosecutable law, prosecute. I would expect no less for any one else.

He was not in the US and American laws are not valid. Did you make sure you didn't break any Norwegian laws today?

-Jo Henrik

[matthewcline 0]

Diplomats can give opinions.

Mute point, I said Prosecutable.


Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[johenrik 0]

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Diplomats can give opinions.

That's what they should be doing, but American diplomats aren't following normal rules: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un

This is illegal after the Vienna Convention and therefore prosecutable in 186 countries of the world (including the US). Clinton and Rice should be prosecution for this, and so should the diplomats, but they are slipping away because people are too busy being angry at the guy who revealed it.

-Jo Henrik

[matthewcline 0]

Yes, if it is proven prosecute. Prosecute the ones who ordered it.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[popsjumper 2]

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Diplomats can give opinions.

That's what they should be doing, but American diplomats aren't following normal rules: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un

This is illegal after the Vienna Convention and therefore prosecutable in 186 countries of the world (including the US). Clinton and Rice should be prosecution for this, and so should the diplomats, but they are slipping away because people are too busy being (TOLD TO BE ) angry at the guy who revealed it.

Oh the irony of a foreign national understanding what's going on and sooooooo many American sheep are not.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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How can Fox News be so stupid...

Fox News is not a reporting agency. It is a tool being used by people of certain political persuasion. Fox News attempts to guide opinions, not just simply report events. Many "news" organizations are little more than outlets for political dogma and political propaganda.

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They also accuse him of breaking American law. American law is only valid inside America. This is pretty basic, and I'm sure Fox News knows this.

Depends on what you mean by "inside" America.
Anyone, anywhere can be charged by the American justice system with violating American law.

Bringing them onto American soil for punishment is another thing. That's where the extradition process comes into play. It's up to the country that has the defendant as to whether they send him to America for punishment.

Most countries in the world have extradition agreements with the U.S. In reality, extradition, in nearly all cases, is a given and only very, very special cases can escape the hand-over.

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If an American breaks Saudi Arabic law while in the US, can he then be prosecuted by the Saudi Arab government?

Yes, You may note that U.S. VP Dick Chaney has been charged with bribery by the Nigerian government.
http://www.marksmarketanalysis.com/2010/12/chaney-to-be-charged-with-bribery-by.html

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If so there will be a lot of people getting their head chopped off for blasphemy here in the Speakers Corner.

Only if they are turned over to the Saudis (or Nigerians).

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I think the American officials and main stream are acting pretty horrible in this case.

You would be correct. You are seeing the true colors of American politicians coming out.

Take special note in the handling of Assange and the handling of Cheney.


PS:
I don't know if I've violated any Norwegian laws unless you have one against having a definitive "lust in my heart" for Norwegian women.
(Jimmy Carter would be proud of me for remembering him.)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[johenrik 0]

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Most countries in the world have extradition agreements with the U.S. In reality, extradition, in nearly all cases, is a given and only very, very special cases can escape the hand-over.

Luckily all European countries have signed an agreement not to transfer prisoners to countries if the prisoner may face capitol punishment. Not that this will happen anyway here though, Europeans still see the importance of freedom and democracy and I don't think any government who would agree to transfer a prisoner charged of free press would survive long.

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Take special note in the handling of Assange and the handling of Cheney.

Even though I have lots of respect for Assange I think it almost would be worth it to sacrifice him in order to put Cheney in a Nigerian prison

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You would be correct. You are seeing the true colors of American politicians coming out.

We have seen this for decades (especially the last decade) and aren't really that surprised. The deal is that finally we can bring these things up in a discussion with Americans and have solid evidence and avoid being told we are just talking about "crazy conspiratory theories made to hurt Americas effort on turning the world into a free and democratic place".

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Oh the irony of a foreign national understanding what's going on and sooooooo many American sheep are not.

Americans can be really hard to understand sometimes. I discuss with Americans a lot (as I'm there very often) and it seems like it's a general consensus among Americans that their government is corrupt, lying and only guarding their own interests. Although when someone now is exposing the whole thing with solid evidence they are more busy shooting the messenger than trying to change all the things they hate about their own country.

I guess in a democracy the people get the government they deserve. Too bad, because even though we are loosing more and more respect for the US every year, I still wish they would play a serious part as "the leaders of the free world". Mainly because the other options are so much worse (Europe is too fragmented to take the role) but we do share a lot of similar culture. Although if Assange would be assassinated or mistreated by the US in another way I'm afraid the last shred of respect for America would be gone here in Europe.

-Jo Henrik