Belgian_Draft 0 #151 September 24, 2010 Quote>Infrastructure is needed by any society. As you said, taxes pay for that. Agreed. >But taxes are also used to support millions of people who won't work. (and other bad things) Also agreed. >These are just a few examples of many that could be eliminated so the >government could operate more efficiently and keep taxes down to a >reasonable level for everyone. Agreed a third time. However, your statement: "People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. Simple" is still not simple. To use a very basic example, Fedex would do much worse if they paid a lot less in taxes - but then did not have maintained highways to ship goods on. That's an example of how reducing taxes a company pays would, in the long run, damage or destroy it. Indeed, if you then INCREASED their taxes to fix the highways, they would then do better. So we have to figure out how to use that tax money wisely - how to maintain that infrastructure that we all depend on while not spending too much money on nonsense, and then we need to set tax policies so that we get the money needed for such expenses while not doing undue damage to companies (or people.) And that is far from simple, as history has demonstrated. I feel it is very simple. Taxes need to be at a level to provide a reasonable standard of living for the society that is being taxed. If taxes are raised above that point then the standard of living rises a little, but not enough to justify the increased taxes. If taxes are lowered the standard falls greatly with a small drop in revenue. The problem arises when a reasonable standard of living is reached (such as we have here in the US) and taxes are raised well above the level needed to maintain that standard because irresponsible spending wastes not only the excess revenue, but also dips into the funds needed to maintain a reasonable standard. The, once again, taxes are raised and the process repeats itself. In order for the cycle to be broken we have to STOP raising taxes and STOP wasteful spending. A very high standard of living can be maintained in this country on far less taxes than are currently being collected. Trickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #152 September 24, 2010 "The US spends a LOT of money for defense " Defense against what exactly?? from south america, or mexico or russia?? Retarded Or maybe its against all those middle eastern people who's country your currently "peacekeeping in" You've created your own problems, again!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #153 September 24, 2010 Quote"The US spends a LOT of money for defense " Defense against what exactly?? from south america, or mexico or russia?? Retarded Or maybe its against all those middle eastern people who's country your currently "peacekeeping in" You've created your own problems, again!! Brown people. The US is in the business of killing brown people. Nationallity doesn't matter.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #154 September 25, 2010 >Taxes need to be at a level to provide a reasonable standard of living for >the society that is being taxed. If taxes are raised above that point then >the standard of living rises a little, but not enough to justify the increased >taxes. If taxes are lowered the standard falls greatly with a small drop in >revenue. Good summary. Which means that the risk of overtaxation is much less than the risk of undertaxation - which may be one reason things are biased in that direction. Another complication is that taxation does not directly influence spending; as we've seen the two are not all that related. So you try to set spending to provide that "reasonable standard of living" and make taxes support that. But then someone wants to cut taxes to score political points, and that gets out of whack. And someone else wants to launch a program with minimal benefit but maximal expenses, and it gets out of whack more. And then one side claims they need to cut taxes no matter what - and the other side wants a new program they consider essential no matter what. And neither is willing to do what it takes (reducing spending AND increasing taxation) to close that gap. That problem is solvable with enough time and effort. But it is by no means simple. >he problem arises when a reasonable standard of living is reached (such >as we have here in the US) and taxes are raised well above the level >needed to maintain that standard . . . . . . but still below the level needed to maintain the higher standard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #155 September 25, 2010 QuoteI will no longer take any of your posts seriously . . . I can't possibly tell you how crushed I am because some anonymous person hiding behind a picture and persona of Scooby-doo on an internet chat forum can't "take any of (my) posts seriously." (and you consider me clueless?)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #156 September 25, 2010 Quote That problem is solvable with enough time and effort. But it is by no means simple. Agreed. The solution will be challenging to develop and even harder to implement. But the problem is very simple. Quote . . . but still below the level needed to maintain the higher standard. A concept which contributes to the problem. What one person feels is a reasonable and adequate standard of living another may find to be appalling and below what they consider minimum for comfort. What one person thinks is minimal another may think is extravagant.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #157 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuote"The US spends a LOT of money for defense " Defense against what exactly?? from south america, or mexico or russia?? Retarded Or maybe its against all those middle eastern people who's country your currently "peacekeeping in" You've created your own problems, again!! Brown people. The US is in the business of killing brown people. Nationallity doesn't matter. Are the yellow people included to, or do you think they got over that during the 50's and 60's, at this rate they'll be onto the whiteys by around 2020.... as there is not defense of canada maybe you guys could peace keep there first Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #158 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote"The US spends a LOT of money for defense " Defense against what exactly?? from south america, or mexico or russia?? Retarded Or maybe its against all those middle eastern people who's country your currently "peacekeeping in" You've created your own problems, again!! Brown people. The US is in the business of killing brown people. Nationallity doesn't matter. Are the yellow people included to, or do you think they got over that during the 50's and 60's, at this rate they'll be onto the whiteys by around 2020.... as there is not defense of canada maybe you guys could peace keep there first During the 40's 50's 60's and part of the 70's we lost track of our mission and started killing yellow people and a few select white people in Germany. After that we got back on track. Canadians? Only when we run out of other people to kill.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #159 September 25, 2010 QuoteThe 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." QuotePoint out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out. I don't care if they're wages, investment income, capital gains or any other form of income, the 16th allows the gov to tax all of us; move to Montana or sit there in denial, I really don't care. Quotemy party wants to better the general populous QuoteYes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person. That's Communism, I don't expect a neo-con to understand the vast difference, perhaps take a trip to Communist Canada before it gets too cold since you don't know the difference. QuoteCongratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits. QuoteI have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor. Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. QuoteOh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly. QuoteNope, wrong again Francis. Riiiiight, we get that brief response. You vote for R's or L's = sociopaths. QuoteI don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered. QuoteLike I said, you were just guessing. All you have to do is ask for data that doesn't exist, whereas a massive mountain of data exists that when taxes are low, the debt soars, unemp flys and growth slows, and that's since at least the FDR admin. But you want specific data that doesn't exist; typical cop-out. Just explain why the afformentioned occurs. QuoteExplain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect. QuoteSimple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple. Not sure that is really more than a vastly mushy, totally indirect answer, but in a way it's right, at least conceptually. So explain why you, the real Amrercan, wants to starve the US Gov, hence the people and hurt America. Are you a terrist (intentional misspelling for conservatives)? Why not advocate for America and as Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but whatyou can do for your country." Paying enough taxes to keep her well is being a true American versus a typical nationalist which is all we get from the RW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #160 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteLet’s say my business has a gross revenue of $200,000. Labor costs are $120,000, equipment costs were $20,000.... Your writer, and you, assume that only higher taxes will cause the business owner to invest. Sorry, but that just isn't the case. Regardless of level of taxation a business owner is always looking to lower his tax burden however he can. He is just as likely to invest in new equipment and pay Christmas bonuses at 5% tax rate as he is at 50% tax rate. By the logic proposed by your story, no business owner is happy until he has zero income. No, but he can invest in his business in the form of equipment, buildings, etc to build the value of it. Basically the longer we stay at 35%, 28%, 25% the longer we will reciprically have to stay at 70%, 80%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #161 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd if you make 250k with your family, these tax increases won't affect you, that's the issue, 250K AGI is really, really, good money, make < and the expired tax increase won't affect you; care to address the issue or just more RW bravado? I'm single, have my own business, and make over 250K. These tax increases aren't going to affect me. They are going to hurt people who make less than I do. Here's why: Until now, I've paid more thanmy share of taxes (over 40 percent of my AGI, 100K+/year), but with these upcoming increases, I've gone to my CPA, and asked how I can shield myself from the increases. He has a perfectly legal method that I'm going to use. The kicker: I can't hire anyone else. So if I have the need for additional staff, I won't hire -- it would cost me too much. So there you go: I'll actually be saving more money (and paying less tax) next year, but I won't be hiring. Love your explanation; complete with a secret that you won't disclose. The million dollar question: WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME? And for your explanation as to not hire more people; DUH, BECAUSE THEN YOU WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY AND YOU WOULD PAY EVEN MORE TAXES. Hey, here's a clue: FUCKING SPEND MONEY ON COMPANY ASSETS THAT WILL DO 3 THINGS: - write down your AGI - increase the value of your businesss - make your business more profitable So stay hiden behind the veil of secrecy to keep your anti-tax rant seemingly viable, or tell us the general type of your business you're in and what the CPA told you to do in addition to not hiring more. Also, if you don't hire more, your competition will, as in free enmterprise, demand-supply you don't dictate need, the consumer does, so the people you don't hire using your secret reason will be picked up by your competition and they will be smart/ingenious enough to grow their business and hire. QuoteI didn't give details for fear of misquoting what my CPA said, and being attacked based on that. How would I know what your CPA told you? That's inane. I'm not looking to cross-examine you, just a brief explanation as to why your CPA told you to not hire people. I see you are not being honest so you avoid telling us; I'm sure others would like to read your answer as well. QuoteI should have known I'd be attacked anyway. Why cry, no one has atatcked you? QuoteSo here is the essence of what I'm going to do: I'll set up a special retirement or deferred compensation plan that allows me to put away large amounts of money pre-tax. I currently have a SEP-IRA plan that allow up to 25% of my salary, but with plans like that, you need to pass what the IRS calls "non-discriminatory testing," which basically says that highly-compensated people in the company cannot receive more of a benefit from such a plan than lowly-compensated people. So if I have employees, I have to give them the same thing I get, which I won't do. Ohhhhhhhhh, so the reason you cannot hire others is due to having to give them the same tax-deferred gift as yourself. That blows your whole, "My CPA said I can't hire people cause my taxes would be too high" rhetoric. I commend you in that youa re being creative, It's smart, but drop the crap about it costing more to hire more people as if it's a normal component of taxation; it's not, it interfere's with your tax deferral strategy. So your, 'poor me' arguement is moot to me. QuoteSay my business puts $150K a year into such a plan for me. That puts my AGI below the limit, so I'll be "middle class" and get the benefit of those tax cuts being retained. I'll defer over $60K in taxes, not be affected by the phase-out of deductions based on income, etc. So for me to hire someone, I'd have to make 100K profit to get $60K after taxes. I've never made that much on my employees. Fair enough, but again, this is not a normal component of income taxation, this is a special strategy. Very wise, I would do the same, I just wouldn't bitch about not being able to hire employees due to teh tax man, it's due to, in this case, your financial retirement strategy. So let's summarize: you're investing 150k into a tax-deferred retirement strategy, but due to this you cannot hire more people as it wouldn't be beneficial. So I wonder what the 150k/yr is doing for economic markets or wherever it is being invested? Yea, probably lots. And the fact that you aren't hiring, your competition who isn't as retirement savvy as you is hiring as the need exists, so it's a win-win. QuoteThe bottom line is I'll stay a 1-person company, and forget about hiring anyone else. Unless you stop investing in that plan and the need exists due to growth. I don't know what business you're in, but if the demand in that field picks way up to the point you can hire 5 or 10 people and keep them busy and smoke your profits way up, you'll quit, for thee time being, your retirement plan, or you likely will, AT THE ADVICE OF YOUR BEAN COUNTER. Just as large businesses are run, by their CFO's. QuoteIf you need more details, I can give you my CPA's number, and you can pay him $300/hour to explain it to you. Nope, that was great, a quick and detailed answer; I think we're all smarter for it. But again, it only supports my claim that higher taxes motivate reinvestment; YOU'RE INVESTING 150K/YR IN AMERICA AREN'T YOU? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #162 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuote WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME? Hey Lucky - do you even have a job? Rut roh, looks like the non-contributors have been exposed; you know who you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #163 September 25, 2010 QuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #164 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuote"The US spends a LOT of money for defense " Defense against what exactly?? from south america, or mexico or russia?? Retarded Or maybe its against all those middle eastern people who's country your currently "peacekeeping in" You've created your own problems, again!! Brown people. The US is in the business of killing brown people. Nationallity doesn't matter. OK, but back to his main point: WHY IS MILITARY SPENDING SO HIGH WHEN IT IS NOT NEEDED? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #165 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote That problem is solvable with enough time and effort. But it is by no means simple. Agreed. The solution will be challenging to develop and even harder to implement. But the problem is very simple. Quote . . . but still below the level needed to maintain the higher standard. A concept which contributes to the problem. What one person feels is a reasonable and adequate standard of living another may find to be appalling and below what they consider minimum for comfort. What one person thinks is minimal another may think is extravagant. You're trying to use elloquent language, dancing around and overusing the term, "reasonable standard" to avoid addressing the issue that taxes are at a 40-year low and that the debt is going nuts due to this. On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #166 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote The 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Quote Point out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out. I don't care if they're wages, investment income, capital gains or any other form of income, the 16th allows the gov to tax all of us; move to Montana or sit there in denial, I really don't care. C'mon Mr. KnowItAll, show me where it saiys my earnings belong to the government. Time to back up your mouth. Quote my party wants to better the general populous Quote Yes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person. That's Communism, I don't expect a neo-con to understand the vast difference, perhaps take a trip to Communist Canada before it gets too cold since you don't know the difference. Uh, Mr. KnowItAll, Canada is not a communist state. Far from it. Quote Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits. Quote I have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor. Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. That is a moot point. The question is, if you are unemployed, what jobs are you willing to work? I've done everything from steam cleaning the inside of cattle trailers to cleaning out septic tanks to make ends meet and keep me off the government tit. Quote Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly. Quote Nope, wrong again Francis. Riiiiight, we get that brief response. You vote for R's or L's = sociopaths. You don't know who I voted for so we'll just chalk you responses up to trolling. Quote I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered. Quote Like I said, you were just guessing. All you have to do is ask for data that doesn't exist, whereas a massive mountain of data exists that when taxes are low, the debt soars, unemp flys and growth slows, and that's since at least the FDR admin. But you want specific data that doesn't exist; typical cop-out. Just explain why the afformentioned occurs. Yep, you're guessing. Quote Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect. Quote Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple. Not sure that is really more than a vastly mushy, totally indirect answer, but in a way it's right, at least conceptually. So explain why you, the real Amrercan, wants to starve the US Gov, hence the people and hurt America. Are you a terrist (intentional misspelling for conservatives)? Why not advocate for America and as Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but whatyou can do for your country." Paying enough taxes to keep her well is being a true American versus a typical nationalist which is all we get from the RW. I am willing to do my fair share for my country, but that doesn't include paying for lazy people to suck off the public tit just because they don't want to work or feel some jobs are beneath them. Your definition of a true America is one of a socialist state where everybody is cared for by the government. My defintion is of a country in which everyone is given the same chance to prosper...but there are no guarrantees of success. Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #167 September 25, 2010 Quote On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Pretty amazing country, isn't it? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #168 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. They pocket it? Do you know how ridiculous that notion is?? Where do they keep it? In a safe? In a mattress? Un mason jars buried in the ground? Where???? Problem with government spending is that a very significant percentage of it is wasted and helps nobody, i.e. unneeded military buildup. As much as you hate the military spending, you sure want the g-men to get as much of my money as they can so they can spend even more on military buildup.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #169 September 25, 2010 Quote Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Oh, you mean like the half of my left pinky that was eaten by a Cincinatti shear? Or the 15% of my skin that was boiled off by a ruptured steam line? Or maybe the countless stitches from countless cuts from working with sharp sheet metal for over 30 years? Or to permanent damage to my corneas from weld flash? You mean those scars? Spare us your "poor working man" bullshit. Most people on this forum are in the same boat, Francis. BTW, as i have stated before, I am no expert in aircraft, but I have never heard of "manding gear". care to tell us what that is? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #170 September 25, 2010 Removed entire assertion being emboldened so the author doesn't look so ******. Quote Quote Quote The 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Quote Point out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out. I don't care if they're wages, investment income, capital gains or any other form of income, the 16th allows the gov to tax all of us; move to Montana or sit there in denial, I really don't care. Quote C'mon Mr. KnowItAll, show me where it saiys my earnings belong to the government. Time to back up your mouth. Just as you have no clue about the US Const, impeachment, etc, you have no clue as to how the 16th is written and interpreted. The Congress can collect taxes as they see fit per teh 16th, it's up to the vote at the time of the sessions, no limits are preset. I know you don't like the open-ended nature, which makes it more sweet. There's no backing up anything other than the 16th allows Congress unabridged federal taxation rights. Sorry you understand it like you understand impeachment processes; it's not written like a comic book (your mode of interpretation) so I can't explain it better than that for you. Quote my party wants to better the general populous Quote Yes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person. That's Communism, I don't expect a neo-con to understand the vast difference, perhaps take a trip to Communist Canada before it gets too cold since you don't know the difference. Quote Uh, Mr. KnowItAll, Canada is not a communist state. Far from it. That was my point, glad to see you right on top of it. But you seem to think socialism and communism are the same and you understand neither. Quote Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits. Quote I have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor. Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Quote Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. That is a moot point. The question is, if you are unemployed, what jobs are you willing to work? I've done everything from steam cleaning the inside of cattle trailers to cleaning out septic tanks to make ends meet and keep me off the government tit. Glad to see I taught you a new word; moot. I did pull a set of gear out of a 737; not that hard to fathom. Again, your ribbon is on the way and I also included a trophy. Quote Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly. Quote Nope, wrong again Francis. Riiiiight, we get that brief response. You vote for R's or L's = sociopaths. Quote You don't know who I voted for so we'll just chalk you responses up to trolling. I've posted my historical voting, you refuse to; we get your avoidance as being voting for pro-sociopathic candidates. Quote I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered. Quote Like I said, you were just guessing. All you have to do is ask for data that doesn't exist, whereas a massive mountain of data exists that when taxes are low, the debt soars, unemp flys and growth slows, and that's since at least the FDR admin. But you want specific data that doesn't exist; typical cop-out. Just explain why the afformentioned occurs. Quote Yep, you're guessing. Guessing with 100 years of major federal data in a few forms, I think that qualifies as a fair guess, esp since you have never been able to refute it. Quote Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect. Quote Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple. Not sure that is really more than a vastly mushy, totally indirect answer, but in a way it's right, at least conceptually. So explain why you, the real Amrercan, wants to starve the US Gov, hence the people and hurt America. Are you a terrist (intentional misspelling for conservatives)? Why not advocate for America and as Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but whatyou can do for your country." Paying enough taxes to keep her well is being a true American versus a typical nationalist which is all we get from the RW. Quote I am willing to do my fair share for my country, but that doesn't include paying for lazy people to suck off the public tit just because they don't want to work or feel some jobs are beneath them. How does it affect corporate welfare teet suckers? Quote your definition of a true America is one of a socialist state where everybody is cared for by the government. No, just fairness and the ability to colelctively bargain, not like your Nazi's utopia where he threatened 2 major airline's employees that he would void their contract if they went on strike. You like the Nazi affect, I like the ability to collectively baragain and strike, a fair set of rules over fascist oppression that you like. Quote My defintion is of a country in which everyone is given the same chance to prosper...but there are no guarrantees of success. Oh, so rich kids who are obviously born into money/fame/etc have teh same chance as everyone else? I see, you don't make sense. Quote Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning. All you can do is guess. I want there to be competition, just not the results of losing being denied HC, food, shelter, etc. Let's establish a baseline and the winners can go from there - upward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #171 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Pretty amazing country, isn't it? Yea, esp considering the reciprocal affect of that is to make millions of empoverished people. What a great trade-off for neo-fascists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #172 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. QuoteThey pocket it? Do you know how ridiculous that notion is?? Where do they keep it? In a safe? In a mattress? Un mason jars buried in the ground? Where???? Apparently you are using Jed Clampet intellect and can't fathom banking it. They pocket it meaning they profit-take and remove the money from circulation. QuoteProblem with government spending is that a very significant percentage of it is wasted and helps nobody, i.e. unneeded military buildup. As much as you hate the military spending, you sure want the g-men to get as much of my money as they can so they can spend even more on military buildup. Evan wasted money goes somewhere. Of course I want it spent wisely, but ill-spent money is better than a recession as the rich pocket their cash under low taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #173 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Quote Oh, you mean like the half of my left pinky that was eaten by a Cincinatti shear? Or the 15% of my skin that was boiled off by a ruptured steam line? Or maybe the countless stitches from countless cuts from working with sharp sheet metal for over 30 years? Or to permanent damage to my corneas from weld flash? You mean those scars? Spare us your "poor working man" bullshit. Most people on this forum are in the same boat, Francis. Yea, you claim to be an engineer, now you're a roughneck; choose 1 and stick with it. Geez, are you schizophrenic? Quote BTW, as i have stated before, I am no expert in aircraft, but I have never heard of "manding gear". care to tell us what that is? So you're down to typing errors now? You really are desperate. On an up-note, at least you are now admitting you aren't an acft expert. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #174 September 25, 2010 Quote Good summary. Which means that the risk of overtaxation is much less than the risk of undertaxation - which may be one reason things are biased in that direction. Another complication is that taxation does not directly influence spending; as we've seen the two are not all that related. On social issues, you're really good at making it sound complicated. We are all equal under the law. No more, not less.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #175 September 25, 2010 Oh no no no Lucky...not a typing error since the keys are not next to one another. Your definition, not mine...remember? You have no clue as to what an engineer does, do you? Not all engineers spend their time behind a desk. Some of us are actually hands-on performing tasks much more difficult than following an instruction book on pulling "manding gear" (whatever that is) from an aircraft. Who do you think designed that "manding gear" and developed the procedure for R&R? Engineers, that's who. If it were left up to people like you to write the procedures we would have wrenches everywhere destroying aircraft because they didn't understand the implications of many of their actions that they thought were harmless. Sorry you don't understand the 16th. It does not claim anywhere that the money I earn belongs to the government, it only empowers congress to levy taxes. If my earning DID belong to the government we would have no need for an ammendment granting congress such power, would we? Remember, my offer to help you move to a country more suited to your ideals is still on the table. North Korea comes to mind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 16 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Lucky... 0 #160 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteLet’s say my business has a gross revenue of $200,000. Labor costs are $120,000, equipment costs were $20,000.... Your writer, and you, assume that only higher taxes will cause the business owner to invest. Sorry, but that just isn't the case. Regardless of level of taxation a business owner is always looking to lower his tax burden however he can. He is just as likely to invest in new equipment and pay Christmas bonuses at 5% tax rate as he is at 50% tax rate. By the logic proposed by your story, no business owner is happy until he has zero income. No, but he can invest in his business in the form of equipment, buildings, etc to build the value of it. Basically the longer we stay at 35%, 28%, 25% the longer we will reciprically have to stay at 70%, 80%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #161 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd if you make 250k with your family, these tax increases won't affect you, that's the issue, 250K AGI is really, really, good money, make < and the expired tax increase won't affect you; care to address the issue or just more RW bravado? I'm single, have my own business, and make over 250K. These tax increases aren't going to affect me. They are going to hurt people who make less than I do. Here's why: Until now, I've paid more thanmy share of taxes (over 40 percent of my AGI, 100K+/year), but with these upcoming increases, I've gone to my CPA, and asked how I can shield myself from the increases. He has a perfectly legal method that I'm going to use. The kicker: I can't hire anyone else. So if I have the need for additional staff, I won't hire -- it would cost me too much. So there you go: I'll actually be saving more money (and paying less tax) next year, but I won't be hiring. Love your explanation; complete with a secret that you won't disclose. The million dollar question: WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME? And for your explanation as to not hire more people; DUH, BECAUSE THEN YOU WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY AND YOU WOULD PAY EVEN MORE TAXES. Hey, here's a clue: FUCKING SPEND MONEY ON COMPANY ASSETS THAT WILL DO 3 THINGS: - write down your AGI - increase the value of your businesss - make your business more profitable So stay hiden behind the veil of secrecy to keep your anti-tax rant seemingly viable, or tell us the general type of your business you're in and what the CPA told you to do in addition to not hiring more. Also, if you don't hire more, your competition will, as in free enmterprise, demand-supply you don't dictate need, the consumer does, so the people you don't hire using your secret reason will be picked up by your competition and they will be smart/ingenious enough to grow their business and hire. QuoteI didn't give details for fear of misquoting what my CPA said, and being attacked based on that. How would I know what your CPA told you? That's inane. I'm not looking to cross-examine you, just a brief explanation as to why your CPA told you to not hire people. I see you are not being honest so you avoid telling us; I'm sure others would like to read your answer as well. QuoteI should have known I'd be attacked anyway. Why cry, no one has atatcked you? QuoteSo here is the essence of what I'm going to do: I'll set up a special retirement or deferred compensation plan that allows me to put away large amounts of money pre-tax. I currently have a SEP-IRA plan that allow up to 25% of my salary, but with plans like that, you need to pass what the IRS calls "non-discriminatory testing," which basically says that highly-compensated people in the company cannot receive more of a benefit from such a plan than lowly-compensated people. So if I have employees, I have to give them the same thing I get, which I won't do. Ohhhhhhhhh, so the reason you cannot hire others is due to having to give them the same tax-deferred gift as yourself. That blows your whole, "My CPA said I can't hire people cause my taxes would be too high" rhetoric. I commend you in that youa re being creative, It's smart, but drop the crap about it costing more to hire more people as if it's a normal component of taxation; it's not, it interfere's with your tax deferral strategy. So your, 'poor me' arguement is moot to me. QuoteSay my business puts $150K a year into such a plan for me. That puts my AGI below the limit, so I'll be "middle class" and get the benefit of those tax cuts being retained. I'll defer over $60K in taxes, not be affected by the phase-out of deductions based on income, etc. So for me to hire someone, I'd have to make 100K profit to get $60K after taxes. I've never made that much on my employees. Fair enough, but again, this is not a normal component of income taxation, this is a special strategy. Very wise, I would do the same, I just wouldn't bitch about not being able to hire employees due to teh tax man, it's due to, in this case, your financial retirement strategy. So let's summarize: you're investing 150k into a tax-deferred retirement strategy, but due to this you cannot hire more people as it wouldn't be beneficial. So I wonder what the 150k/yr is doing for economic markets or wherever it is being invested? Yea, probably lots. And the fact that you aren't hiring, your competition who isn't as retirement savvy as you is hiring as the need exists, so it's a win-win. QuoteThe bottom line is I'll stay a 1-person company, and forget about hiring anyone else. Unless you stop investing in that plan and the need exists due to growth. I don't know what business you're in, but if the demand in that field picks way up to the point you can hire 5 or 10 people and keep them busy and smoke your profits way up, you'll quit, for thee time being, your retirement plan, or you likely will, AT THE ADVICE OF YOUR BEAN COUNTER. Just as large businesses are run, by their CFO's. QuoteIf you need more details, I can give you my CPA's number, and you can pay him $300/hour to explain it to you. Nope, that was great, a quick and detailed answer; I think we're all smarter for it. But again, it only supports my claim that higher taxes motivate reinvestment; YOU'RE INVESTING 150K/YR IN AMERICA AREN'T YOU? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #162 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuote WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME? Hey Lucky - do you even have a job? Rut roh, looks like the non-contributors have been exposed; you know who you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #163 September 25, 2010 QuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #164 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuote"The US spends a LOT of money for defense " Defense against what exactly?? from south america, or mexico or russia?? Retarded Or maybe its against all those middle eastern people who's country your currently "peacekeeping in" You've created your own problems, again!! Brown people. The US is in the business of killing brown people. Nationallity doesn't matter. OK, but back to his main point: WHY IS MILITARY SPENDING SO HIGH WHEN IT IS NOT NEEDED? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #165 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote That problem is solvable with enough time and effort. But it is by no means simple. Agreed. The solution will be challenging to develop and even harder to implement. But the problem is very simple. Quote . . . but still below the level needed to maintain the higher standard. A concept which contributes to the problem. What one person feels is a reasonable and adequate standard of living another may find to be appalling and below what they consider minimum for comfort. What one person thinks is minimal another may think is extravagant. You're trying to use elloquent language, dancing around and overusing the term, "reasonable standard" to avoid addressing the issue that taxes are at a 40-year low and that the debt is going nuts due to this. On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #166 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote The 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Quote Point out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out. I don't care if they're wages, investment income, capital gains or any other form of income, the 16th allows the gov to tax all of us; move to Montana or sit there in denial, I really don't care. C'mon Mr. KnowItAll, show me where it saiys my earnings belong to the government. Time to back up your mouth. Quote my party wants to better the general populous Quote Yes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person. That's Communism, I don't expect a neo-con to understand the vast difference, perhaps take a trip to Communist Canada before it gets too cold since you don't know the difference. Uh, Mr. KnowItAll, Canada is not a communist state. Far from it. Quote Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits. Quote I have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor. Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. That is a moot point. The question is, if you are unemployed, what jobs are you willing to work? I've done everything from steam cleaning the inside of cattle trailers to cleaning out septic tanks to make ends meet and keep me off the government tit. Quote Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly. Quote Nope, wrong again Francis. Riiiiight, we get that brief response. You vote for R's or L's = sociopaths. You don't know who I voted for so we'll just chalk you responses up to trolling. Quote I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered. Quote Like I said, you were just guessing. All you have to do is ask for data that doesn't exist, whereas a massive mountain of data exists that when taxes are low, the debt soars, unemp flys and growth slows, and that's since at least the FDR admin. But you want specific data that doesn't exist; typical cop-out. Just explain why the afformentioned occurs. Yep, you're guessing. Quote Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect. Quote Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple. Not sure that is really more than a vastly mushy, totally indirect answer, but in a way it's right, at least conceptually. So explain why you, the real Amrercan, wants to starve the US Gov, hence the people and hurt America. Are you a terrist (intentional misspelling for conservatives)? Why not advocate for America and as Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but whatyou can do for your country." Paying enough taxes to keep her well is being a true American versus a typical nationalist which is all we get from the RW. I am willing to do my fair share for my country, but that doesn't include paying for lazy people to suck off the public tit just because they don't want to work or feel some jobs are beneath them. Your definition of a true America is one of a socialist state where everybody is cared for by the government. My defintion is of a country in which everyone is given the same chance to prosper...but there are no guarrantees of success. Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #167 September 25, 2010 Quote On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Pretty amazing country, isn't it? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #168 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. They pocket it? Do you know how ridiculous that notion is?? Where do they keep it? In a safe? In a mattress? Un mason jars buried in the ground? Where???? Problem with government spending is that a very significant percentage of it is wasted and helps nobody, i.e. unneeded military buildup. As much as you hate the military spending, you sure want the g-men to get as much of my money as they can so they can spend even more on military buildup.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #169 September 25, 2010 Quote Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Oh, you mean like the half of my left pinky that was eaten by a Cincinatti shear? Or the 15% of my skin that was boiled off by a ruptured steam line? Or maybe the countless stitches from countless cuts from working with sharp sheet metal for over 30 years? Or to permanent damage to my corneas from weld flash? You mean those scars? Spare us your "poor working man" bullshit. Most people on this forum are in the same boat, Francis. BTW, as i have stated before, I am no expert in aircraft, but I have never heard of "manding gear". care to tell us what that is? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #170 September 25, 2010 Removed entire assertion being emboldened so the author doesn't look so ******. Quote Quote Quote The 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Quote Point out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out. I don't care if they're wages, investment income, capital gains or any other form of income, the 16th allows the gov to tax all of us; move to Montana or sit there in denial, I really don't care. Quote C'mon Mr. KnowItAll, show me where it saiys my earnings belong to the government. Time to back up your mouth. Just as you have no clue about the US Const, impeachment, etc, you have no clue as to how the 16th is written and interpreted. The Congress can collect taxes as they see fit per teh 16th, it's up to the vote at the time of the sessions, no limits are preset. I know you don't like the open-ended nature, which makes it more sweet. There's no backing up anything other than the 16th allows Congress unabridged federal taxation rights. Sorry you understand it like you understand impeachment processes; it's not written like a comic book (your mode of interpretation) so I can't explain it better than that for you. Quote my party wants to better the general populous Quote Yes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person. That's Communism, I don't expect a neo-con to understand the vast difference, perhaps take a trip to Communist Canada before it gets too cold since you don't know the difference. Quote Uh, Mr. KnowItAll, Canada is not a communist state. Far from it. That was my point, glad to see you right on top of it. But you seem to think socialism and communism are the same and you understand neither. Quote Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits. Quote I have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor. Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Quote Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. That is a moot point. The question is, if you are unemployed, what jobs are you willing to work? I've done everything from steam cleaning the inside of cattle trailers to cleaning out septic tanks to make ends meet and keep me off the government tit. Glad to see I taught you a new word; moot. I did pull a set of gear out of a 737; not that hard to fathom. Again, your ribbon is on the way and I also included a trophy. Quote Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly. Quote Nope, wrong again Francis. Riiiiight, we get that brief response. You vote for R's or L's = sociopaths. Quote You don't know who I voted for so we'll just chalk you responses up to trolling. I've posted my historical voting, you refuse to; we get your avoidance as being voting for pro-sociopathic candidates. Quote I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered. Quote Like I said, you were just guessing. All you have to do is ask for data that doesn't exist, whereas a massive mountain of data exists that when taxes are low, the debt soars, unemp flys and growth slows, and that's since at least the FDR admin. But you want specific data that doesn't exist; typical cop-out. Just explain why the afformentioned occurs. Quote Yep, you're guessing. Guessing with 100 years of major federal data in a few forms, I think that qualifies as a fair guess, esp since you have never been able to refute it. Quote Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect. Quote Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple. Not sure that is really more than a vastly mushy, totally indirect answer, but in a way it's right, at least conceptually. So explain why you, the real Amrercan, wants to starve the US Gov, hence the people and hurt America. Are you a terrist (intentional misspelling for conservatives)? Why not advocate for America and as Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but whatyou can do for your country." Paying enough taxes to keep her well is being a true American versus a typical nationalist which is all we get from the RW. Quote I am willing to do my fair share for my country, but that doesn't include paying for lazy people to suck off the public tit just because they don't want to work or feel some jobs are beneath them. How does it affect corporate welfare teet suckers? Quote your definition of a true America is one of a socialist state where everybody is cared for by the government. No, just fairness and the ability to colelctively bargain, not like your Nazi's utopia where he threatened 2 major airline's employees that he would void their contract if they went on strike. You like the Nazi affect, I like the ability to collectively baragain and strike, a fair set of rules over fascist oppression that you like. Quote My defintion is of a country in which everyone is given the same chance to prosper...but there are no guarrantees of success. Oh, so rich kids who are obviously born into money/fame/etc have teh same chance as everyone else? I see, you don't make sense. Quote Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning. All you can do is guess. I want there to be competition, just not the results of losing being denied HC, food, shelter, etc. Let's establish a baseline and the winners can go from there - upward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #171 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Pretty amazing country, isn't it? Yea, esp considering the reciprocal affect of that is to make millions of empoverished people. What a great trade-off for neo-fascists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #172 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. QuoteThey pocket it? Do you know how ridiculous that notion is?? Where do they keep it? In a safe? In a mattress? Un mason jars buried in the ground? Where???? Apparently you are using Jed Clampet intellect and can't fathom banking it. They pocket it meaning they profit-take and remove the money from circulation. QuoteProblem with government spending is that a very significant percentage of it is wasted and helps nobody, i.e. unneeded military buildup. As much as you hate the military spending, you sure want the g-men to get as much of my money as they can so they can spend even more on military buildup. Evan wasted money goes somewhere. Of course I want it spent wisely, but ill-spent money is better than a recession as the rich pocket their cash under low taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #173 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Quote Oh, you mean like the half of my left pinky that was eaten by a Cincinatti shear? Or the 15% of my skin that was boiled off by a ruptured steam line? Or maybe the countless stitches from countless cuts from working with sharp sheet metal for over 30 years? Or to permanent damage to my corneas from weld flash? You mean those scars? Spare us your "poor working man" bullshit. Most people on this forum are in the same boat, Francis. Yea, you claim to be an engineer, now you're a roughneck; choose 1 and stick with it. Geez, are you schizophrenic? Quote BTW, as i have stated before, I am no expert in aircraft, but I have never heard of "manding gear". care to tell us what that is? So you're down to typing errors now? You really are desperate. On an up-note, at least you are now admitting you aren't an acft expert. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #174 September 25, 2010 Quote Good summary. Which means that the risk of overtaxation is much less than the risk of undertaxation - which may be one reason things are biased in that direction. Another complication is that taxation does not directly influence spending; as we've seen the two are not all that related. On social issues, you're really good at making it sound complicated. We are all equal under the law. No more, not less.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #175 September 25, 2010 Oh no no no Lucky...not a typing error since the keys are not next to one another. Your definition, not mine...remember? You have no clue as to what an engineer does, do you? Not all engineers spend their time behind a desk. Some of us are actually hands-on performing tasks much more difficult than following an instruction book on pulling "manding gear" (whatever that is) from an aircraft. Who do you think designed that "manding gear" and developed the procedure for R&R? Engineers, that's who. If it were left up to people like you to write the procedures we would have wrenches everywhere destroying aircraft because they didn't understand the implications of many of their actions that they thought were harmless. Sorry you don't understand the 16th. It does not claim anywhere that the money I earn belongs to the government, it only empowers congress to levy taxes. If my earning DID belong to the government we would have no need for an ammendment granting congress such power, would we? Remember, my offer to help you move to a country more suited to your ideals is still on the table. North Korea comes to mind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 16 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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Lucky... 0 #162 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuote WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME? Hey Lucky - do you even have a job? Rut roh, looks like the non-contributors have been exposed; you know who you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #163 September 25, 2010 QuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #164 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuote"The US spends a LOT of money for defense " Defense against what exactly?? from south america, or mexico or russia?? Retarded Or maybe its against all those middle eastern people who's country your currently "peacekeeping in" You've created your own problems, again!! Brown people. The US is in the business of killing brown people. Nationallity doesn't matter. OK, but back to his main point: WHY IS MILITARY SPENDING SO HIGH WHEN IT IS NOT NEEDED? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #165 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote That problem is solvable with enough time and effort. But it is by no means simple. Agreed. The solution will be challenging to develop and even harder to implement. But the problem is very simple. Quote . . . but still below the level needed to maintain the higher standard. A concept which contributes to the problem. What one person feels is a reasonable and adequate standard of living another may find to be appalling and below what they consider minimum for comfort. What one person thinks is minimal another may think is extravagant. You're trying to use elloquent language, dancing around and overusing the term, "reasonable standard" to avoid addressing the issue that taxes are at a 40-year low and that the debt is going nuts due to this. On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #166 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote The 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Quote Point out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out. I don't care if they're wages, investment income, capital gains or any other form of income, the 16th allows the gov to tax all of us; move to Montana or sit there in denial, I really don't care. C'mon Mr. KnowItAll, show me where it saiys my earnings belong to the government. Time to back up your mouth. Quote my party wants to better the general populous Quote Yes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person. That's Communism, I don't expect a neo-con to understand the vast difference, perhaps take a trip to Communist Canada before it gets too cold since you don't know the difference. Uh, Mr. KnowItAll, Canada is not a communist state. Far from it. Quote Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits. Quote I have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor. Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. That is a moot point. The question is, if you are unemployed, what jobs are you willing to work? I've done everything from steam cleaning the inside of cattle trailers to cleaning out septic tanks to make ends meet and keep me off the government tit. Quote Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly. Quote Nope, wrong again Francis. Riiiiight, we get that brief response. You vote for R's or L's = sociopaths. You don't know who I voted for so we'll just chalk you responses up to trolling. Quote I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered. Quote Like I said, you were just guessing. All you have to do is ask for data that doesn't exist, whereas a massive mountain of data exists that when taxes are low, the debt soars, unemp flys and growth slows, and that's since at least the FDR admin. But you want specific data that doesn't exist; typical cop-out. Just explain why the afformentioned occurs. Yep, you're guessing. Quote Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect. Quote Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple. Not sure that is really more than a vastly mushy, totally indirect answer, but in a way it's right, at least conceptually. So explain why you, the real Amrercan, wants to starve the US Gov, hence the people and hurt America. Are you a terrist (intentional misspelling for conservatives)? Why not advocate for America and as Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but whatyou can do for your country." Paying enough taxes to keep her well is being a true American versus a typical nationalist which is all we get from the RW. I am willing to do my fair share for my country, but that doesn't include paying for lazy people to suck off the public tit just because they don't want to work or feel some jobs are beneath them. Your definition of a true America is one of a socialist state where everybody is cared for by the government. My defintion is of a country in which everyone is given the same chance to prosper...but there are no guarrantees of success. Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #167 September 25, 2010 Quote On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Pretty amazing country, isn't it? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #168 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. They pocket it? Do you know how ridiculous that notion is?? Where do they keep it? In a safe? In a mattress? Un mason jars buried in the ground? Where???? Problem with government spending is that a very significant percentage of it is wasted and helps nobody, i.e. unneeded military buildup. As much as you hate the military spending, you sure want the g-men to get as much of my money as they can so they can spend even more on military buildup.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #169 September 25, 2010 Quote Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Oh, you mean like the half of my left pinky that was eaten by a Cincinatti shear? Or the 15% of my skin that was boiled off by a ruptured steam line? Or maybe the countless stitches from countless cuts from working with sharp sheet metal for over 30 years? Or to permanent damage to my corneas from weld flash? You mean those scars? Spare us your "poor working man" bullshit. Most people on this forum are in the same boat, Francis. BTW, as i have stated before, I am no expert in aircraft, but I have never heard of "manding gear". care to tell us what that is? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #170 September 25, 2010 Removed entire assertion being emboldened so the author doesn't look so ******. Quote Quote Quote The 16th: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Quote Point out to me where that says my wages belong to the government. Please Mr. Law Expert, point it out. I don't care if they're wages, investment income, capital gains or any other form of income, the 16th allows the gov to tax all of us; move to Montana or sit there in denial, I really don't care. Quote C'mon Mr. KnowItAll, show me where it saiys my earnings belong to the government. Time to back up your mouth. Just as you have no clue about the US Const, impeachment, etc, you have no clue as to how the 16th is written and interpreted. The Congress can collect taxes as they see fit per teh 16th, it's up to the vote at the time of the sessions, no limits are preset. I know you don't like the open-ended nature, which makes it more sweet. There's no backing up anything other than the 16th allows Congress unabridged federal taxation rights. Sorry you understand it like you understand impeachment processes; it's not written like a comic book (your mode of interpretation) so I can't explain it better than that for you. Quote my party wants to better the general populous Quote Yes, all of us here know what you socialists want. You want nothing less than every person to have nothing more nor nothing less than any other person. That's Communism, I don't expect a neo-con to understand the vast difference, perhaps take a trip to Communist Canada before it gets too cold since you don't know the difference. Quote Uh, Mr. KnowItAll, Canada is not a communist state. Far from it. That was my point, glad to see you right on top of it. But you seem to think socialism and communism are the same and you understand neither. Quote Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits. Quote I have never collected unemployment because I have been willing to work any job that was available and never thought of myself as being above any task. You obviously feel you are too good to work menial labor. Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Quote Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. That is a moot point. The question is, if you are unemployed, what jobs are you willing to work? I've done everything from steam cleaning the inside of cattle trailers to cleaning out septic tanks to make ends meet and keep me off the government tit. Glad to see I taught you a new word; moot. I did pull a set of gear out of a 737; not that hard to fathom. Again, your ribbon is on the way and I also included a trophy. Quote Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly. Quote Nope, wrong again Francis. Riiiiight, we get that brief response. You vote for R's or L's = sociopaths. Quote You don't know who I voted for so we'll just chalk you responses up to trolling. I've posted my historical voting, you refuse to; we get your avoidance as being voting for pro-sociopathic candidates. Quote I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered. Quote Like I said, you were just guessing. All you have to do is ask for data that doesn't exist, whereas a massive mountain of data exists that when taxes are low, the debt soars, unemp flys and growth slows, and that's since at least the FDR admin. But you want specific data that doesn't exist; typical cop-out. Just explain why the afformentioned occurs. Quote Yep, you're guessing. Guessing with 100 years of major federal data in a few forms, I think that qualifies as a fair guess, esp since you have never been able to refute it. Quote Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect. Quote Simple. People...and governments...usually do better when they have more money coming in. It really is that simple. Not sure that is really more than a vastly mushy, totally indirect answer, but in a way it's right, at least conceptually. So explain why you, the real Amrercan, wants to starve the US Gov, hence the people and hurt America. Are you a terrist (intentional misspelling for conservatives)? Why not advocate for America and as Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but whatyou can do for your country." Paying enough taxes to keep her well is being a true American versus a typical nationalist which is all we get from the RW. Quote I am willing to do my fair share for my country, but that doesn't include paying for lazy people to suck off the public tit just because they don't want to work or feel some jobs are beneath them. How does it affect corporate welfare teet suckers? Quote your definition of a true America is one of a socialist state where everybody is cared for by the government. No, just fairness and the ability to colelctively bargain, not like your Nazi's utopia where he threatened 2 major airline's employees that he would void their contract if they went on strike. You like the Nazi affect, I like the ability to collectively baragain and strike, a fair set of rules over fascist oppression that you like. Quote My defintion is of a country in which everyone is given the same chance to prosper...but there are no guarrantees of success. Oh, so rich kids who are obviously born into money/fame/etc have teh same chance as everyone else? I see, you don't make sense. Quote Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning. All you can do is guess. I want there to be competition, just not the results of losing being denied HC, food, shelter, etc. Let's establish a baseline and the winners can go from there - upward. 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Lucky... 0 #171 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote On another note we're producing millionaires at an amazing rate. Pretty amazing country, isn't it? Yea, esp considering the reciprocal affect of that is to make millions of empoverished people. What a great trade-off for neo-fascists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #172 September 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteTrickle down economics doesn't work regardless of whether the rich man spends the money or the government spends it. Here inlies your vast misunderstanding: THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH TRICKLE DOWN IS THAT THE RICH POCKET IT AND DON'T SPEND IT; THE GOV DEFINATELY WILL. When cash fails to circulate, that is the essence in a general sense, of a recession. The rich hoard it, which I don't blame them for, the gov spends it creating constant stimulus. Spending it does benefit us, hoarding it ices eveything. QuoteThey pocket it? Do you know how ridiculous that notion is?? Where do they keep it? In a safe? In a mattress? Un mason jars buried in the ground? Where???? Apparently you are using Jed Clampet intellect and can't fathom banking it. They pocket it meaning they profit-take and remove the money from circulation. QuoteProblem with government spending is that a very significant percentage of it is wasted and helps nobody, i.e. unneeded military buildup. As much as you hate the military spending, you sure want the g-men to get as much of my money as they can so they can spend even more on military buildup. Evan wasted money goes somewhere. Of course I want it spent wisely, but ill-spent money is better than a recession as the rich pocket their cash under low taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #173 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Quote Oh, you mean like the half of my left pinky that was eaten by a Cincinatti shear? Or the 15% of my skin that was boiled off by a ruptured steam line? Or maybe the countless stitches from countless cuts from working with sharp sheet metal for over 30 years? Or to permanent damage to my corneas from weld flash? You mean those scars? Spare us your "poor working man" bullshit. Most people on this forum are in the same boat, Francis. Yea, you claim to be an engineer, now you're a roughneck; choose 1 and stick with it. Geez, are you schizophrenic? Quote BTW, as i have stated before, I am no expert in aircraft, but I have never heard of "manding gear". care to tell us what that is? So you're down to typing errors now? You really are desperate. On an up-note, at least you are now admitting you aren't an acft expert. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #174 September 25, 2010 Quote Good summary. Which means that the risk of overtaxation is much less than the risk of undertaxation - which may be one reason things are biased in that direction. Another complication is that taxation does not directly influence spending; as we've seen the two are not all that related. On social issues, you're really good at making it sound complicated. We are all equal under the law. No more, not less.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #175 September 25, 2010 Oh no no no Lucky...not a typing error since the keys are not next to one another. Your definition, not mine...remember? You have no clue as to what an engineer does, do you? Not all engineers spend their time behind a desk. Some of us are actually hands-on performing tasks much more difficult than following an instruction book on pulling "manding gear" (whatever that is) from an aircraft. Who do you think designed that "manding gear" and developed the procedure for R&R? Engineers, that's who. If it were left up to people like you to write the procedures we would have wrenches everywhere destroying aircraft because they didn't understand the implications of many of their actions that they thought were harmless. Sorry you don't understand the 16th. It does not claim anywhere that the money I earn belongs to the government, it only empowers congress to levy taxes. If my earning DID belong to the government we would have no need for an ammendment granting congress such power, would we? Remember, my offer to help you move to a country more suited to your ideals is still on the table. North Korea comes to mind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 16 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Lucky... 0 #173 September 25, 2010 Quote Quote Princess, my hands are riddled with scars, cuts and grease right now in the fingernails; you are clearly barking at the wrong person here. Last week I remover the manding gear out of a 737 and I don't wear gloves. Scan your princess-manicured nails and post them. Quote Oh, you mean like the half of my left pinky that was eaten by a Cincinatti shear? Or the 15% of my skin that was boiled off by a ruptured steam line? Or maybe the countless stitches from countless cuts from working with sharp sheet metal for over 30 years? Or to permanent damage to my corneas from weld flash? You mean those scars? Spare us your "poor working man" bullshit. Most people on this forum are in the same boat, Francis. Yea, you claim to be an engineer, now you're a roughneck; choose 1 and stick with it. Geez, are you schizophrenic? Quote BTW, as i have stated before, I am no expert in aircraft, but I have never heard of "manding gear". care to tell us what that is? So you're down to typing errors now? You really are desperate. On an up-note, at least you are now admitting you aren't an acft expert. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #174 September 25, 2010 Quote Good summary. Which means that the risk of overtaxation is much less than the risk of undertaxation - which may be one reason things are biased in that direction. Another complication is that taxation does not directly influence spending; as we've seen the two are not all that related. On social issues, you're really good at making it sound complicated. We are all equal under the law. No more, not less.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #175 September 25, 2010 Oh no no no Lucky...not a typing error since the keys are not next to one another. Your definition, not mine...remember? You have no clue as to what an engineer does, do you? Not all engineers spend their time behind a desk. Some of us are actually hands-on performing tasks much more difficult than following an instruction book on pulling "manding gear" (whatever that is) from an aircraft. Who do you think designed that "manding gear" and developed the procedure for R&R? Engineers, that's who. If it were left up to people like you to write the procedures we would have wrenches everywhere destroying aircraft because they didn't understand the implications of many of their actions that they thought were harmless. Sorry you don't understand the 16th. It does not claim anywhere that the money I earn belongs to the government, it only empowers congress to levy taxes. If my earning DID belong to the government we would have no need for an ammendment granting congress such power, would we? Remember, my offer to help you move to a country more suited to your ideals is still on the table. North Korea comes to mind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
