How would I prove I'm leagle?

[Lucky... 0]

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As far as AZ is concerned, I think this might answer your question:

http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-travel-info/identification-requirements

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3. What types of documents do I need to travel to and throughout Arizona?

The new law does not require U.S. citizens to carry identification. The new law merely requires aliens to carry registration documents that they are already required to carry under federal law. Under the new law, law enforcement officers may only inquire about immigration status if there is first a lawful stop, detention or arrest for a violation of some other law, and then the officer has reasonable suspicion that that you are an alien unlawfully present in the United States. If this occurs, the legislation provides that any one of the following forms of identification will be accepted by law enforcement as proof of legal immigration status in the United States:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.
2. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
3. A valid Arizona non-operating identification license.
4. Any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification, provided the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance*.

The federal government, or a state or local law enforcement officer authorized by the federal government, can only make the final determination of a person’s immigration status. State or local law enforcement officers who are not authorized by the federal government cannot make these determinations.


* If you question the validity of your state’s form of identification, please refer to your state’s Motor Vehicle Division

So if you're a US citizen from a state that doesn't comply with AZ's driver's license requirement, and you look Hispanic, you are both NOT required to carry ID and ARE required to simultaneously.

Look, just be white and there will be no problem. This, "browning of America" will be stopped, hook or crook.

[Southern_Man 0]

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Once again, Every state in the union have a law requiring all adults have a ID card , either state issued ID , or a driver's lisense....

what is wrong wioth enforcing the laws on everybody?

You have posted this crap many times. It is not true.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Andy9o8 0]

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Once again, Every state in the union have a law requiring all adults have a ID card , either state issued ID , or a driver's lisense....

This is now the third thread in which you've posted this and been told it's dead wrong. It's simply wrong. Period.
If you post it a fourth time, it will still be wrong.

[Gawain 0]

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You have no clue of the goings on in Nazizona, if you did you would reflect on the Chandler Roundup years ago where they went to the poor area of Chandler and rounded up all brown people, went downtown and sorted them out. They paid milliosn for that one, of course it was orchestrated by Police Chief Bobby Joe Harris, teh same redneck pig who excused Officer piggy Lovelace for each of his killings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_Roundup

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How close to the border are you? I may be in Northern California now, but I've lived in SoCal, and the I-5 corridor makes for a pretty quick affect.

couple hundred miles, but that isn't the point. This isn't about you or me, it's about constitutional protections for Americans.

Actually, you made it about me, stating I have no clue what is going on. A couple hundred miles, so that's somewhat vague. I'm in the Sacramento Valley, and we have problems up here that are visible and have little to do with race...and I'm 500 miles from the border.

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I have a pretty good idea what's going on. Ranchers and Policemen are getting killed along the border.

Actually it was 1 rancher and a cop was shot; flesh wound. You act as tho they are daily. Cops get shot everywhere, all the time, therate there is < the average.

I don't dispute the broad analysis you make but you discount out of hand, the source and tactics. The rancher was 35 miles north of the border, shot multiple times. The deputy was ambushed - text book tactic using automatic weapons. The federal government has closed off a part of the national park, essentially yielding, ceding US territory to traffickers - 80 miles north of the border. Those are significant by themselves.

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What do you think is going on?

Typical racist hype. It's agenda that conservatives have latched onto and they're running it intot he ground, as with most things they endeavor.

Playing the racist card huh? So, do you favor turning a blind eye to the problem? Is it racism that's made Phoenix the number 2 kidnapping capitol in the western hemisphere? Pre tell....

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No problem or comment on the Chandler Roundup?

Nothing that will satiate you, but in summary: An understandable intention marred by poor execution. The legality wasn't the issue so much as the execution of the plan. Are you stating that the round-up didn't serve any benefit?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Once again, Every state in the union have a law requiring all adults have a ID card , either state issued ID , or a driver's lisense....

This is now the third thread in which you've posted this and been told it's dead wrong. It's simply wrong. Period.
If you post it a fourth time, it will still be wrong.

A perfect example of what this thread and the associated link was about. "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is already made up".

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DaVinci 0]

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I run. I have never taken any sort of ID with me when I run. I wonder what a cop would do if I couldn't produce any idea when out for my jog? I'm sure it would be okay because I am white.

Or nothing will happen since you are wearing running apparel.

Now, try running in jeans and a jacket with a ski mask and the result might be different.

[DaVinci 0]

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No problem at all, provided you produce one of them on demand. (Or are OK with being held until such can be produced.)

I already own several items that the police can ask for registration to prove I can own them.

I currently have to provide an DL if asked (in most States). And the AZ law allows a DL to be used.

Also, the AZ law only mirrors the Federal Laws.

[DaVinci 0]

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You can see it when I run for President - along with my grades and papers, unlike Dear Leader.

Point to mnealtx.

[carmenc 0]

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I run. I have never taken any sort of ID with me when I run. I wonder what a cop would do if I couldn't produce any idea when out for my jog? I'm sure it would be okay because I am white.

Or nothing will happen since you are wearing running apparel.

Now, try running in jeans and a jacket with a ski mask and the result might be different.

Or simply running while Hispanic.

[Shotgun 1]

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So if you're a US citizen from a state that doesn't comply with AZ's driver's license requirement, and you look Hispanic, you are both NOT required to carry ID and ARE required to simultaneously.

My understanding is that you are not required to carry ID except in a situation where you would normally be required to, such as driving a vehicle. But if you are involved in some sort of altercation while, for instance, walking, you are not required to have an ID on you, but you may be required to retrieve an ID. Which is the way it already is.

And the law says nothing about "looking Hispanic." In fact, the AZ bill specifically says that race should not be used as reasonable suspicion that someone is in the country illegally.

Now some folks think that the cops are incapapble of following the law, and that they will make up excuses to harrass "brown people." And that may very well be so, in which case it is the problem that should be addressed. Claiming that the actual bill is racist is incorrect, because it is quite specifically not.

[carmenc 0]

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So if you're a US citizen from a state that doesn't comply with AZ's driver's license requirement, and you look Hispanic, you are both NOT required to carry ID and ARE required to simultaneously.

My understanding is that you are not required to carry ID except in a situation where you would normally be required to, such as driving a vehicle. But if you are involved in some sort of altercation while, for instance, walking, you are not required to have an ID on you, but you may be required to retrieve an ID. Which is the way it already is.

And the law says nothing about "looking Hispanic." In fact, the AZ bill specifically says that race should not be used as reasonable suspicion that someone is in the country illegally.

Now some folks think that the cops are incapapble of following the law, and that they will make up excuses to harrass "brown people." And that may very well be so, in which case it is the problem that should be addressed. Claiming that the actual bill is racist is incorrect, because it is quite specifically not.

I believe NM is a state that issues drivers licenses without proof of legal status. Lots of Hispanic CITIZENS live in NM and drive across into AZ. So if one is stopped with a blown tail-light on his pick-up are you seriously telling us that there won't be an issue? SERIOUSLY? If so, there is a really nice bridge you may be interested in buying.

[DaVinci 0]

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Or simply running while Hispanic.

You have some data points to back that up, or just a bumper sticker slogan you like?

Andy is a white guy and he has been stopped while running.

[Shotgun 1]

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I believe NM is a state that issues drivers licenses without proof of legal status. Lots of Hispanic CITIZENS live in NM and drive across into AZ. So if one is stopped with a blown tail-light on his pick-up are you seriously telling us that there won't be an issue?

What do they currently do to prove their citizenship? After all, the AZ police are already allowed (but not required) to question anyone's legal status. If their driver's license isn't proof that they are in the country legally, then they may want to carry one of the other documents listed. But they would only need to show this if there was reasonable suspicion that they were in the country illegally. So if they actually have a driver's license, vehicle registration, etc. (nothing suspicious), then it shouldn't be a problem anyway.

But again, if you think the cops are just going to harrass any Hispanic person that they come into contact with, then that is another issue that should be addressed on its own.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Or simply running while Hispanic.

You have some data points to back that up, or just a bumper sticker slogan you like?

Andy is a white guy and he has been stopped while running.

Actually, Carmen has a point; and my data points include 30 years working in and around criminal justice. It's a semi-serious joke, call it an open secret, if you will, that police not infrequently stop "certain" people for "DWB" - "driving while black".

Police profiling exists; and in fact it always has. I'd even agree that it's a part of diligent policing. Whether one approves of profiling under certain circumstances or not, it's naive to think it does exist as a general rule.

The time when I was stopped running was an exception to the rule: a horrible crime had just been committed near my quiet, mostly-white neighborhood by a white suspect who was still at large. A solo black man jogging in my neighborhood in the pre-dawn darkness on an average day would probably get more police scrutiny than a white runner would.

[DaVinci 0]

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Actually, Carmen has a point

Never said otherwise, I just asked him to back it with more than a bumper sticker.

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It's a semi-serious joke, call it an open secret, if you will, that police not infrequently stop "certain" people for "DWB" - "driving while black".

And you know those types of charges have to be proven in court and are not just accepted.

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The time when I was stopped running was an exception to the rule: a horrible crime had just been committed near my quiet, mostly-white neighborhood by a white suspect who was still at large. A solo black man jogging in my neighborhood in the pre-dawn darkness on an average day would probably get more police scrutiny than a white runner would.

Can you back that up, or are you guessing?

You think a black man that day had a higher chance of being stopped?

Fact is that things that are out of place draw attention:

The 40 year old riding a BMX bike at 10PM.
The guy wearing a dress.
The woman crying as she walks down the street.
The white guy in a "black neighborhood".
The black guy in a "white neighborhood".

I think most of us would agree that a guy in Nike gear with an iPod and a heart rate monitor while running is less likely to get stopped than a guy running wearing jeans.

Your case proves that it does happen to whites. No one said it does not happen to blacks or Hispanics. But it is up to the accusers to prove it happens MORE and ONLY due to color when they make that claim.

[jclalor 12]

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I just realized one other thing....
"Hospital birth certificates are not accepted".

I was born in 1962, the hospital birth certificate is all I've ever had.
Oddly enough it was sufficient to enlist in the Navy.

.

I was born in 1962 and my hospital birth certificate was good enough for the Navy also.

[Shotgun 1]

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I just realized one other thing....
"Hospital birth certificates are not accepted".

I was born in 1962, the hospital birth certificate is all I've ever had.
Oddly enough it was sufficient to enlist in the Navy.

Interesting.... I've never been able to use my hospital birth certificate for anything. I've always had to show a state-issued copy.

[alberto1980 0]

LEGAL
leagle sounds like a french eagle

[mnealtx 0]

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"Don't bother me with facts, my mind is already made up".

"Cops will harass brown people!!!!"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[normiss 622]

maybe because mine is from an Air Force base hospital?

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maybe because mine is from an Air Force base hospital?

Oh, OK. Mine is from a Catholic hospital. I guess the government doesn't trust those damned Catholics.

[carmenc 0]

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Actually, Carmen has a point

Never said otherwise, I just asked him to back it with more than a bumper sticker.

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It's a semi-serious joke, call it an open secret, if you will, that police not infrequently stop "certain" people for "DWB" - "driving while black".

And you know those types of charges have to be proven in court and are not just accepted.

Oh, right. Just try challenging a cop's sworn statement that your brake light was out, or you were doing 33 in a 25 limit, before a municipal court judge.

[carmenc 0]

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I believe NM is a state that issues drivers licenses without proof of legal status. Lots of Hispanic CITIZENS live in NM and drive across into AZ. So if one is stopped with a blown tail-light on his pick-up are you seriously telling us that there won't be an issue?

What do they currently do to prove their citizenship? After all, the AZ police are already allowed (but not required) to question anyone's legal status. If their driver's license isn't proof that they are in the country legally, then they may want to carry one of the other documents listed.

So the state's claim that citizens don't need to carry ID is false, if they look Hispanic and drive in from NM.

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But they would only need to show this if there was reasonable suspicion that they were in the country illegally..

What do you think might constitute "reasonable suspicion"? A tatoo on the forehead saying "Mexican"?

[Shotgun 1]

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So the state's claim that citizens don't need to carry ID is false, if they look Hispanic and drive in from NM.

If they are driving, they need to carry a driver's license, just like anyone else.

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What do you think might constitute "reasonable suspicion"?

Well, driving with no license or registration would be a start. And you don't even have to be brown to get hassled for that.

[Amazon 7]

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So the state's claim that citizens don't need to carry ID is false, if they look Hispanic and drive in from NM.

If they are driving, they need to carry a driver's license, just like anyone else.

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What do you think might constitute "reasonable suspicion"?

Well, driving with no license or registration would be a start. And you don't even have to be brown to get hassled for that.

But in most jurisdictions I highly doubt YOU would get pulled over for Driving While White.... its a moot point.

In many places profiling happens all the time.. most LEO will claim it does not happen but its a reality in this country