Blacks Will Never Gain Wealth Equality With Whites Under the Current System

[kelpdiver 2]

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the ones that always got A's never got awards or banquets or even a scholarship even if they graduated highschool with college credit because they were white.

so you're saying that only whites get 'A's'?

Nah, asians do pretty well, too.

aahhh...the return of a usual suspect
(and he's straight in with the reverse racism)

No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier. It's not because there is a difference in racism in our past - We were at war against the Japanese and the Vietnamese and the Chinese in the past 70 years. There was plenty of racism. (and still quite noticeably from blacks against them) But the general tendencies to value education, and their children speaking English (even if the parents never do), sets up their children for success.

If instead you devalue education, if you encourage your kids to drop out of high school, if you encourage them to speak Ebonics or other distortions of English that make their children unemployable in an office environment, they are facing a much taller wall.

You can't blame the system without actually making an effort. And without reducing the murder rate and conviction rates of young black men before they have a chance to reach higher earning years.

[dreamdancer 0]

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I realize that not all gifted programs are the same, but somehow a poster up-thread argued that smart students are being penalized at the expense of average ones

That *does* happen. When the class is taught to the pace of the least capable student, the more capable students suffer the consequences.

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(and somehow tried to tie this to reverse racism, implying that the smart students are white, and the average ones black, but nevermind)

I didn't see where he said only the smart ones are white. I think you may have read something into his statement that wasn't there.

it was implied from the way he assembled his sentence

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rushmc 18]

aahhh...the return of a usual suspect

Yep, you did come back

And with yet another post exposing your racism

I thought you were smarter than that

my bad

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[dreamdancer 0]

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the ones that always got A's never got awards or banquets or even a scholarship even if they graduated highschool with college credit because they were white.

so you're saying that only whites get 'A's'?

Nah, asians do pretty well, too.

aahhh...the return of a usual suspect
(and he's straight in with the reverse racism)

No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier.

blacks weren't 'immigrants'.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[winsor 186]

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the ones that always got A's never got awards or banquets or even a scholarship even if they graduated highschool with college credit because they were white.

so you're saying that only whites get 'A's'?

Nah, asians do pretty well, too.

aahhh...the return of a usual suspect
(and he's straight in with the reverse racism)

Tell you what, Sparky, there is no such thing as "reverse racism." Racism is racism.

If you start a thread based on race, that's racist. If you then choose to bitch about those that YOU deem racist, that is simply sublime. You can't have it both ways.

If any group stands up and says they want to be considered as a separate group, they had best be braced for said consideration.

In general I could not care less about whether someone is a Rotarian, a Zoroastrian, or partakes of some form of "alternative lifestyle" on their own time - so long as they have the good taste to spare me the details.

If someone chooses to make a big deal about their political/religious/ethnic persuasion, that's their choice. If they then seek to tell me what I am to think on the matter, it is my prerogative to deny them that privilege. I might actually agree with them - but it is hardly a foregone conclusion.

Though slavery is truly repellent, it is still a reality - in Africa. The negroes who wound up in North America have a hell of a lot more going for them than does the bulk of the population of sub-saharan Africa. Very few of the U.S. citizen negroes of my acquaintance would willingly trade places with their counterparts in Mali or Cameroon.

If you want to be colorblind, I'm all for it. Let each stand (or fall) on their own merit, without any race-based freebies or apologies.

Personal responsibility beats racism hands down.


BSBD,

Winsor

[dreamdancer 0]

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the ones that always got A's never got awards or banquets or even a scholarship even if they graduated highschool with college credit because they were white.

so you're saying that only whites get 'A's'?

Nah, asians do pretty well, too.

aahhh...the return of a usual suspect
(and he's straight in with the reverse racism)

Tell you what, Sparky, there is no such thing as "reverse racism." Racism is racism.

If you start a thread based on race, that's racist.

no it's not - that's a stupid argument
(do you dispute the thread title)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[jhnhll 0]

I currently work as a manager in a plant that has a very high percentage of African Americans. The preferred description from them is black not negro. I would be real close to not having a job if I referred to them as negro. Just sayin.

[billvon 2,406]

Sundevil, RushMC - cut it out.

[wmw999 2,127]

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No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier

Good post. Except I rather doubt he's trying to keep a serious discussion on the topic.

[perception]I think there are cultural differences at work here. Why else do we have white kids wanting to be lawyers and the like, and so many fewer now going into the sciences and engineering? At the same time, some hispanics are often willing to take a cut in lifestyle to stay closer to family, and some blacks seem to value the trappings of wealth over education.
[/perception]

I can certainly make shit up about why I think each of these. And I might even be right for some of those people. But in each case, group behaviors tend to be self-perpetuating -- the more a group engages in a given behavior, the more that behavior becomes the default norm. People often want to be like their friends, relatives, and those around them.

Which means that one of the best ways for a group to strive for more is for it to be aggressive and push its way out of its group norm. Of course, in the case of people who were, for a long time, subjected to prejudice, that group cohesiveness was one of the few sustaining factors -- it's probably harder to push yourself out, and the rewards for doing so were, for a long time, often overshadowed by the punishments.

Personally, I think that the more mongrelized everyone becomes, the more exposure people of different cultures have to each other, the more likely it is that individuals that don't fit in will both try to push out, and will accept others.

Both of those (i.e. pushing away one's own culture, and accepting those of other cultures) are necessary. It's not enough for us to say that as long as they're willing to be like us, it's OK. And it's not enough for folks who want to be on top to say "they should take us exactly as we are."

The USA is changing, and it will continue to do so. It's inevitable, and trying to find some idealized time that we should strive for is ridiculous -- those idealized times didn't have the ease of communication that we have now. And I think mass communication is what came out of Pandora's box.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[winsor 186]

Tell you what, Sparky, there is no such thing as "reverse racism." Racism is racism.

If you start a thread based on race, that's racist.

no it's not - that's a stupid argument

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Well, if anyone is an expert in "stupid," you most certainly are.

(do you dispute the thread title)

I think it is moronic, and unworthy of serious consieration. It is, by definition, racist.

[dreamdancer 0]

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No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier

Good post. Except I rather doubt he's trying to keep a serious discussion on the topic.

you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'. do you think this is relevant?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[winsor 186]

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No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier

Good post. Except I rather doubt he's trying to keep a serious discussion on the topic.

you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'. do you think this is relevant?

No.

I do not recall you saying anything of significance. Ever.

[dreamdancer 0]

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No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier

Good post. Except I rather doubt he's trying to keep a serious discussion on the topic.

you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'. do you think this is relevant?

No.

I do not recall you saying anything of significance. Ever.

i wasn't asking you
(we all know your opinion)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[winsor 186]

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No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier

Good post. Except I rather doubt he's trying to keep a serious discussion on the topic.

you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'. do you think this is relevant?

No.

I do not recall you saying anything of significance. Ever.

i wasn't asking you
(we all know your opinion)

Everything you think you know is wrong.

[dreamdancer 0]

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No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier

Good post. Except I rather doubt he's trying to keep a serious discussion on the topic.

you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'. do you think this is relevant?

No.

I do not recall you saying anything of significance. Ever.

i wasn't asking you
(we all know your opinion)

Everything you think you know is wrong.

i think you're very clever

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Ion01 1]

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First, the advanced placement students don't get extra tax dollars.

I was in the gifted and talented program my whole life, including going to a public magnet school. I'm pretty sure we had access to a lot more stuff (and better teachers) than the "regular" kids.

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Rather than have the ones that try hard sped out into all the others they simply put them all in one classroom and put the ones that don't try so hard in the classroom the hardworkers were in. There is no extra teachers or classes or anything else.

Not in the real world. AP students get better teachers, lower teacher to student ratios, and better facilities. Not that I'm arguing against that, I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea to tailor the educational experience to the students' abilities, but you can't really argue that the money distribution is equal.

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Second, what isn't fair is that the hard working students don't get rewarded for thier hard work whereas the ones who don't work hard but simply move a high D to a low C get extra tax dollars in the form of awards and banquets for the parents since they improved but the ones that always got A's never got awards or banquets or even a scholarship even if they graduated highschool with college credit because they were white.

Really? You have a lot of misplaced anger issues. Do you go to a lot of banquets for students (all black in your world) who raised their GPA's from a high D to a low C? What was the last such banquet you attended? Please tell us about it. On the other hand, if the students actually improved from D's to B's or A's, don't you think they had to work hard to do that? Doesn't that make them part of the "hard workers"? And when's the last time a C/D student was named valledictorian, or put on the Dean's list? Students get rewarded for hard work, regardless of their abilities. And it has nothing to do with race.

My AP classes didn't have access to anything other students didn't including the teachers. The teachers taught regular classes for part of the day and AP in another part of the day so the only thing different was what was taught.

the moving from Ds to Cs was for anyone and I personally new a lot of these people when I was in school and the ones I new were all goof offs and they thought it was funny themselves.

I also had more minority friends than non-minorty where I went to school and the majority of them had all C averaged except for one who was truely a genius but had no self control so when he got away from his parents all he did was party and lost his scholarship as a result. Almost all the others that were minorities got scholarships because they were minorities. Some even thought it was funny how they could get C and get college virtually payed for becuase of thier race. Others thought it was wrong but like they were going to refuse the money.

I have no anger issue just stating whats going on. I am actually appreciative because it was my parents that made me a success because they taught me, not the schools even thought I went to school. I am appreciative because the rediculousness of the system taught me that life wasn't fair so the only way I could really get what I wanted was to do it myself and not expect something from some system. However, so many would rather not get what they really want and just get by with only doing what is necessary and systems like we have just makes what is necessary for these people even less and people like me must make up the difference..... so I get punished for being responsible with my house and car payments while others get my money through the government and get thier house payed for because they didn't keep up with the payments or so many other government programs because they learned in school to take the hand outs and that you will be rewarded for being irresponsible.

[billvon 2,406]

>you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'.

Seems like you're claiming that blacks are somehow inherently different than whites. Is that your claim?

[dreamdancer 0]

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>you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'.

Seems like you're claiming that blacks are somehow inherently different than whites. Is that your claim?

no i'm saying that blacks were, by and large, brought here as slaves. asians weren't.

slaves didn't have families to help them - they were on their own.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,406]

>>Seems like you're claiming that blacks are somehow inherently
>>different than whites. Is that your claim?

>no . . .

OK, then. So their background is pretty immaterial; it hasn't made them any different than whites. Cool.

[winsor 186]

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No, if you're really interested in a serious discussion on the subject, rather than trying to keep the pot boiling as you wrote, you'd need to address the fact that Asian immigrants are more successful, and wealthier

Good post. Except I rather doubt he's trying to keep a serious discussion on the topic.

you haven't addressed my point regards blacks not being 'immigrants'. do you think this is relevant?

No.

I do not recall you saying anything of significance. Ever.

i wasn't asking you
(we all know your opinion)

Everything you think you know is wrong.

i think you're very clever

Thinking is not your long suit.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>>Seems like you're claiming that blacks are somehow inherently
>>different than whites. Is that your claim?

>no . . .

OK, then. So their background is pretty immaterial; it hasn't made them any different than whites. Cool.

humans are humans
(and orphans are orphans)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,406]

>humans are humans

Agreed! All this discussion about "black wealth" (or the lack thereof) is pretty silly, isn't it? After all, we're really talking about human wealth, no matter what color someone's skin is.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>humans are humans

Agreed! All this discussion about "black wealth" (or the lack thereof) is pretty silly, isn't it? After all, we're really talking about human wealth, no matter what color someone's skin is.

the colour of their skin is why they're being discriminated against
(and their human wealth taken away - just look to your prisons)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,406]

>the colour of their skin . . .

Why do you keep coming back to the color of their skins? Why can't you just accept them as fellow human beings?

[dreamdancer 0]

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>the colour of their skin . . .

Why do you keep coming back to the color of their skins? Why can't you just accept them as fellow human beings?

why can't you accept that, if they were white, they wouldn't be discriminated against.

(look to your prisons)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding