billvon 2,463
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>agreed. what i'm proposing is getting the minimum wage back to its
>historical value
Historically the minimum wage has varied from $3.30 to $9.40 in 2007 dollars. The average is $6.35. It is currently $7.25.
So you are proposing reducing the minimum wage to its historical average? Seems to run counter to what you said initially.
>historical value
Historically the minimum wage has varied from $3.30 to $9.40 in 2007 dollars. The average is $6.35. It is currently $7.25.
So you are proposing reducing the minimum wage to its historical average? Seems to run counter to what you said initially.
champu 1
QuoteBeing paid what you deserve is not greed. Until the chinese or indians get the technology to hand me my happy meal in Iowa, the american doing the work deserves a pay commensurate to the first world country we live. Just because a person has "limited talent" does not mean his/her importance to the bottom line is diminished. Another words how successful is the bean counter when there is no one of "limited talent" to take my order.
QuoteFamilies that are "more self sufficient" and a "socially preferable distribution of income" and "pay commensurate to the first world country we live" are dangerously ill-defined. So cut the crap and tell me, what is your list of things that society should guarantee everyone is able to afford? And what things (presumably a subset of this list) do you think should just be provided by the government no matter what?
The last time you started this thread Quade pointed out that telling ourselves, "we can all grow up to be presidents and astronauts" is a lie. I agreed but suggested a worse lie is telling ourselves, "We can all get 9-5 jobs doing anything we want, wherever we want, and expect to own a house with a white picket fence and have 2.4 kids."
/edited to add some bold to your statement and to add to the post of mine that I quoted.
champu 1
Quoteyou then index the minimum wage to inflation
Suggested reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIBO_stability
"And what things do you think should just be provided by the government no matter what?"
You couldn't be more right. We are guaranteed nothing, but "life, liberty and the pursuit happiness" Let's get ride of monopoly law. As those are. laws incapable of affecting those bits of the constitution. Health standards, those are not specifically addressed, so let's import all the tainted drywall in the world. As well as rid ourselves of all EPA law because one only has to go to china to realize the lack of law prior to regulation had no net effect in our country or its enviorment. All those pesky rules governing banking are obviously a socialist plot as the banks will never collude or fuck themselves. The FAA! Ha you will be fine because the DZO's already insure that the plane you dick around in is perfectly safe. As a matter of fact our safety from foreign intruders is only guaranteed thru the 2nd amendment, I will be first in line to buy a M1 A1 when they come online. And since I like to smoke crack, and shoot H any attempt to stop me is an obvious affront to the constitution due to the fact they make me happy. And lastly my religion requires me to have your first born. Please do not try to restrict my " free exercise thereof."
You couldn't be more right. We are guaranteed nothing, but "life, liberty and the pursuit happiness" Let's get ride of monopoly law. As those are. laws incapable of affecting those bits of the constitution. Health standards, those are not specifically addressed, so let's import all the tainted drywall in the world. As well as rid ourselves of all EPA law because one only has to go to china to realize the lack of law prior to regulation had no net effect in our country or its enviorment. All those pesky rules governing banking are obviously a socialist plot as the banks will never collude or fuck themselves. The FAA! Ha you will be fine because the DZO's already insure that the plane you dick around in is perfectly safe. As a matter of fact our safety from foreign intruders is only guaranteed thru the 2nd amendment, I will be first in line to buy a M1 A1 when they come online. And since I like to smoke crack, and shoot H any attempt to stop me is an obvious affront to the constitution due to the fact they make me happy. And lastly my religion requires me to have your first born. Please do not try to restrict my " free exercise thereof."
champu 1
Congratulations, you win this week's awards for the most blatant misrepresentation of something I've written and also for the most obtuse question dodge.
Preventing entities from trashing the environment, stifling competition, and cutting corners on safety are exactly the kinds of things the government needs to step in on to prevent unbridled capitalism from collapsing on itself. Now that I clarified that we are in agreement on that, please explain to me what the hell, "pay commensurate to the first world country we live" is supposed to mean.
Preventing entities from trashing the environment, stifling competition, and cutting corners on safety are exactly the kinds of things the government needs to step in on to prevent unbridled capitalism from collapsing on itself. Now that I clarified that we are in agreement on that, please explain to me what the hell, "pay commensurate to the first world country we live" is supposed to mean.
QuoteThe rich get richer generally by giving people jobs. Thus it gets shared.
if it's 'giving' then it's not earning
(according to bv we all live on welfare payments from the rich)
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
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QuoteGreed is why people want minimum wage laws. Basically, they want more than their labor is valued. It's also why companies hire the people who are the most valuable i.e. do the most for the least money. If you pass a law requiring labor in the US to be less valuable it will be used less.
no, greed is what drives corporations - maximise profit and all that
(was it greed that drove slaves to want to be free)
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
Quote>agreed. what i'm proposing is getting the minimum wage back to its
>historical value
Historically the minimum wage has varied from $3.30 to $9.40 in 2007 dollars. The average is $6.35. It is currently $7.25.
So you are proposing reducing the minimum wage to its historical average? Seems to run counter to what you said initially.
no, its historical value
QuoteAs you can see, while the minimum wage has increased just over 26-fold since its inception, actual buying power has fluctuated considerably over time. The real-world value of the minimum wage (expressed in 2008 dollars) peaked at $10.06/hour in 1968, and has been gradually tailing off in the years since then. That being said, it’s still hasn’t reached the levels seen back in the 1930s and 1940s.
As an aside, you can really see the insidious effects of inflation right around 1980, when actual wages were increasing every year, yet buying power was falling at the same time.
Another interesting way to look at these data is in the context of projected annual incomes vs. the federal poverty level. What follows is a graph of the annual income of an individual working full-time (2080 hours/year), again expressed in 2008 dollars. The dashed line reflects the 2008 poverty level for a family of three (e.g., a single parent with two kids).
As you can see, the full-time income of a minimum wage worker eclipsed the current poverty level back in the early 1960s and hung on until the late 1970s, at which time it went into a prolonged slide.
http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2008/07/25/the-federal-minimum-wage-looking-back-over-time/
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
""pay commensurate to the first world country we live" is supposed to mean."
Ha
Haha, if the mine in WV would have been full of niggers or kykes or spics or whopes or mics or faggots or liberals their desire to have a fair wage would surely be responsible for the inability of the corporation to sort out the safety issues they were confronted with. You are right , innocent owners were simply being fucked over by the government when standards where applied. Instead the families are going to bankrupt the mine because mining is a" unskilled activity." The closing of the mine, the death of 20 people, are absolutely the result of the regulations which the envriodiots imposed.
The signers of our constitution whom where conservative(who only wanted the first born male to vote) continue to be on the wrong side of history. Ratification of the constitution... opposed by conservatives. Ratification of the post office was one of the first bits on record where conservatives screamed we were fucked. When the Marine "CORPES" first hit the shores of tripoly, all of the conservatives were horrified because it would effect the source of their nig... I mean capitalist workers. The interstate road system has done more to drive us into communism than any pinko media egg head plan in generations.
Did you know Eisenhower was a fascist, Kennedy was not real it was a test to prove we could make it to the moon, Johnson only had the name cause of his enormous Johnson,Nixon was innocent,Ford made a car, Carter was an idiot, Reagan was the first alztimers patient not to display symptoms in his 80's, Bush the elder believed we would not raise taxes, Clinton's worst crime was lying about infidelity, Bush the younger achieved everything he had because he was not one of the elite....and Obama is the best person to be running our country.
Whoa.... I don't think I even know what commensurate means!
You are right, history is repleat with altruistic capitalism.
Ha
Haha, if the mine in WV would have been full of niggers or kykes or spics or whopes or mics or faggots or liberals their desire to have a fair wage would surely be responsible for the inability of the corporation to sort out the safety issues they were confronted with. You are right , innocent owners were simply being fucked over by the government when standards where applied. Instead the families are going to bankrupt the mine because mining is a" unskilled activity." The closing of the mine, the death of 20 people, are absolutely the result of the regulations which the envriodiots imposed.
The signers of our constitution whom where conservative(who only wanted the first born male to vote) continue to be on the wrong side of history. Ratification of the constitution... opposed by conservatives. Ratification of the post office was one of the first bits on record where conservatives screamed we were fucked. When the Marine "CORPES" first hit the shores of tripoly, all of the conservatives were horrified because it would effect the source of their nig... I mean capitalist workers. The interstate road system has done more to drive us into communism than any pinko media egg head plan in generations.
Did you know Eisenhower was a fascist, Kennedy was not real it was a test to prove we could make it to the moon, Johnson only had the name cause of his enormous Johnson,Nixon was innocent,Ford made a car, Carter was an idiot, Reagan was the first alztimers patient not to display symptoms in his 80's, Bush the elder believed we would not raise taxes, Clinton's worst crime was lying about infidelity, Bush the younger achieved everything he had because he was not one of the elite....and Obama is the best person to be running our country.
Whoa.... I don't think I even know what commensurate means!
You are right, history is repleat with altruistic capitalism.
QuoteQuoteGreed is why people want minimum wage laws. Basically, they want more than their labor is valued. It's also why companies hire the people who are the most valuable i.e. do the most for the least money. If you pass a law requiring labor in the US to be less valuable it will be used less.
no, greed is what drives corporations - maximise profit and all that
So the people earning minimum wage do not wish to maximize for themselves? You want others to give people what they don't want.
Are you high?
[Reply]
(was it greed that drove slaves to want to be free)
Yep. Sure, the slaves had housing covered (a housing project), they were fed (no need for food stamps or WIC), they got doctor care paid for by the slave owners (yep. unhealthy slaves couldn't pick cotton) so health care was taken care of.
And yet those of us who wish to provide for our own food, our own health care, or own housing, are considered to be greedy and not out there for the good of society. The slaves were right to say, "this society thing is screwing us, even though we get housing, food and helth care."
Because freedom to make one's own way is worth more than that to a whole lot of people.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
mnealtx 0
QuoteHaha, if the mine in WV would have been full of niggers or kykes or spics or whopes or mics or faggots
Ok, so you don't have any sort of valid argument, then.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteQuoteHaha, if the mine in WV would have been full of niggers or kykes or spics or whopes or mics or faggots
Ok, so you don't have any sort of valid argument, then.
prove he doesn't have a valid arguement
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteHaha, if the mine in WV would have been full of niggers or kykes or spics or whopes or mics or faggots
Ok, so you don't have any sort of valid argument, then.
prove he doesn't have a valid arguement
Prove he does.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
champu 1
QuoteQuoteQuoteHaha, if the mine in WV would have been full of niggers or kykes or spics or whopes or mics or faggots
Ok, so you don't have any sort of valid argument, then.
prove he doesn't have a valid arguement
He hasn't presented any argument regarding my question.
Valid arguments are a subset of all arguments.
Therefore, he hasn't presented a valid argument.
QED
His entire post, instead, consists of yelling at someone who doesn't believe the government should provide environmental, competition, and safety regulations. I'm not sure who he's yelling at as I thought I made it quite clear that we stand in agreement on those issues in my last post.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHaha, if the mine in WV would have been full of niggers or kykes or spics or whopes or mics or faggots
Ok, so you don't have any sort of valid argument, then.
prove he doesn't have a valid arguement
He hasn't presented any argument regarding my question.
Valid arguments are a subset of all arguments.
Therefore, he hasn't presented a valid argument.
QED
His entire post, instead, consists of yelling at someone who doesn't believe the government should provide environmental, competition, and safety regulations. I'm not sure who he's yelling at as I thought I made it quite clear that we stand in agreement on those issues in my last post.
i don't see any 'yelling'. is yourmomma really against environmental, competition and safety regulations?
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
champu 1
QuoteQuoteHis entire post, instead, consists of yelling at someone who doesn't believe the government should provide environmental, competition, and safety regulations. I'm not sure who he's yelling at as I thought I made it quite clear that we stand in agreement on those issues in my last post.
i don't see any 'yelling'. is yourmomma really against environmental, competition and safety regulations?
I was referring to the extended string of slurs and cursing, but I suppose I might have misread the tone. If you sing his post aloud to polka music, it's actually quite friendly sounding.
Bolas 5
QuoteQuoteQuoteHis entire post, instead, consists of yelling at someone who doesn't believe the government should provide environmental, competition, and safety regulations. I'm not sure who he's yelling at as I thought I made it quite clear that we stand in agreement on those issues in my last post.
i don't see any 'yelling'. is yourmomma really against environmental, competition and safety regulations?
I was referring to the extended string of slurs and cursing, but I suppose I might have misread the tone. If you sing his post aloud to polka music, it's actually quite friendly sounding.
You could sing the necronomicon to polka music and it would sound friendly too.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
billvon 2,463
>if it's 'giving' then it's not earning
Semantics. Your company gives you money because you earned it.
>according to bv we all live onwelfare payments salaries from the rich companies
Edited that so it's a bit more accurate. Still not completely accurate, but closer.
Semantics. Your company gives you money because you earned it.
>according to bv we all live on
Edited that so it's a bit more accurate. Still not completely accurate, but closer.
billvon 2,463
>no, its historical value
Its historical average value is around $6.35. Its maximum, ever, was $9.40. (or $10.06 in 2008 dollars.) So you really want the historical MAXIMIM value, apparently.
>As you can see, the full-time income of a minimum wage worker eclipsed
>the current poverty level back in the early 1960s and hung on until the late
>1970s, at which time it went into a prolonged slide.
Good! People thus have an incentive to better themselves and escape their low-paying jobs. Or, if they prefer to live in poverty, they can keep them and live relatively well. Their choice.
Its historical average value is around $6.35. Its maximum, ever, was $9.40. (or $10.06 in 2008 dollars.) So you really want the historical MAXIMIM value, apparently.
>As you can see, the full-time income of a minimum wage worker eclipsed
>the current poverty level back in the early 1960s and hung on until the late
>1970s, at which time it went into a prolonged slide.
Good! People thus have an incentive to better themselves and escape their low-paying jobs. Or, if they prefer to live in poverty, they can keep them and live relatively well. Their choice.
Quote>no, its historical value
Its historical average value is around $6.35. Its maximum, ever, was $9.40. (or $10.06 in 2008 dollars.) So you really want the historical MAXIMIM value, apparently.
that's right
(plus catchup for the undervaluing of the last few decades - or i suppose we wait for another asset bubble and another and another...)
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
Quote>As you can see, the full-time income of a minimum wage worker eclipsed
>the current poverty level back in the early 1960s and hung on until the late
>1970s, at which time it went into a prolonged slide.
Good! People thus have an incentive to better themselves and escape their low-paying jobs. Or, if they prefer to live in poverty, they can keep them and live relatively well. Their choice.
like slaves had an incentive to escape
(but very few ever did)
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
Bolas 5
QuoteQuote>no, its historical value
Its historical average value is around $6.35. Its maximum, ever, was $9.40. (or $10.06 in 2008 dollars.) So you really want the historical MAXIMIM value, apparently.
that's right
(plus catchup for the undervaluing of the last few decades - or i suppose we wait for another asset bubble and another and another...)
Sounds like you want reparations...
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
No. You are proposing creating a bubble of inflated wages. Bubbles burst, causing economies to crash. We've seen it twice in the last ten years.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
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