Pennsylvania School District Accused of Spying on Students via Web-cam
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Gawain, in Speakers Corner
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billvon 2,406
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>The law forces me to submit my children to the system . . .
No, it doesn't. The fact that you keep saying this makes me think you really don't understand the law out there. The law did not force my parents to submit me to the system, and it did not force a friend of mine (Karen) to be submitted to the system. Indeed, she didn't go to school at all (homeschooled.)
Learn the law before complaining about it.
>If I want a good education for my kids, I must pay twice and/or do it myself.
Yep. Or do nothing and just complain. You seem to be pretty good at that.
>What's wrong with my suggested compromise?: Allow the schools to
>teach whatever they want . . .
Nope. I'm not OK with a generation of kids being taught American Idol instead of how to read. If you want to do that, fine - keep your kid home and teach him how your remote works.
But we do have public schools in this country, and they are important tools in educating a new generation of people who can vote, who can work, indeed who can run the country. Thus we all have a vested interest in teaching them fact instead of myth.
No, it doesn't. The fact that you keep saying this makes me think you really don't understand the law out there. The law did not force my parents to submit me to the system, and it did not force a friend of mine (Karen) to be submitted to the system. Indeed, she didn't go to school at all (homeschooled.)
Learn the law before complaining about it.
>If I want a good education for my kids, I must pay twice and/or do it myself.
Yep. Or do nothing and just complain. You seem to be pretty good at that.
>What's wrong with my suggested compromise?: Allow the schools to
>teach whatever they want . . .
Nope. I'm not OK with a generation of kids being taught American Idol instead of how to read. If you want to do that, fine - keep your kid home and teach him how your remote works.
But we do have public schools in this country, and they are important tools in educating a new generation of people who can vote, who can work, indeed who can run the country. Thus we all have a vested interest in teaching them fact instead of myth.
pirana 0
Quote. . . secular humanist religious . . .
Oxymoron alert.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
champu 1
QuoteWe do spend time reminding students that the sun rises in the west...
...well I suppose if you were in a low enough inclination retrograde orbit...
hell, with a properly timed/inclined polar orbit you can make the sun rise in the South and set in the North
DanG 1
I don't have any kids, but I still have to pay for YOUR kids' education. In fact, since you can claim a taxd eduction for them, I'm paying more per dollar than you are to educate them.
So, since it's my money, I prefer they be taught reality. If you want to teach them fantasy, do it on your own dime and on your own time.
- Dan G
So, since it's my money, I prefer they be taught reality. If you want to teach them fantasy, do it on your own dime and on your own time.
- Dan G
jakee 1,257
QuoteQuoteWe do spend time reminding students that the sun rises in the west...
...well I suppose if you were in a low enough inclination retrograde orbit...
Haha
Evidently I did not pay enough attention in school
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
DanG 1
Maybe you were just exposed to the "other" side of the Rising Sun Debate.
Now you can choose for yourself.
- Dan G
Now you can choose for yourself.
- Dan G
jakee 1,257
QuoteMaybe you were just exposed to the "other" side of the Rising Sun Debate.
Now you can choose for yourself.
Then I choose to believe that the Rising Sun is a house in New Orleans.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
kallend 1,635
QuoteQuoteQuoteWe do spend time reminding students that the sun rises in the west...
...well I suppose if you were in a low enough inclination retrograde orbit...
Haha
Evidently I did not pay enough attention in school
What you need is a good analemma.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 2,406
>Oxymoron alert.
It's kind of a word-salad rant; just throw every pejorative you have into the mix so you offend enough people. "You greedy socialist tax-and-spend cheapskate asshole hypocrite" sort of thing. Sort of a shorthand for "something I really hate."
It's kind of a word-salad rant; just throw every pejorative you have into the mix so you offend enough people. "You greedy socialist tax-and-spend cheapskate asshole hypocrite" sort of thing. Sort of a shorthand for "something I really hate."
wolfriverjoe 1,346
QuoteQuoteMaybe you were just exposed to the "other" side of the Rising Sun Debate.
Now you can choose for yourself.
Then I choose to believe that the Rising Sun is a house in New Orleans.
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
pirana 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteMaybe you were just exposed to the "other" side of the Rising Sun Debate.
Now you can choose for yourself.
Then I choose to believe that the Rising Sun is a house in New Orleans.
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy.
9Cue the jangly guitar)
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
Learn the law before complaining about it...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Aw, c'mon Bill! What happens to me if I just refuse to send my kids to school? If your answer is "nothing" then your previous comment makes sense, but it exposes some ignorance.
If I refuse to send my kids to school (or make other "approved" arrangements) police arrive to escort me before a judge, where I risk fines and/or jail. If I resist I can be shot. This doesn't bother you.
All I'm asking is that students be exposed not only to both sides of the debate, but that they are told that there ARE two sides to the story. This is the truth, yet you oppose this.
We're talking about something that is unproven and unproveable and which does not meet basic criteria for serious scientific analysis. So what business does this issue have anywhere near a "science" class?
Freedom. Liberty. Choice. Cheers,
Jon
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Aw, c'mon Bill! What happens to me if I just refuse to send my kids to school? If your answer is "nothing" then your previous comment makes sense, but it exposes some ignorance.
If I refuse to send my kids to school (or make other "approved" arrangements) police arrive to escort me before a judge, where I risk fines and/or jail. If I resist I can be shot. This doesn't bother you.
All I'm asking is that students be exposed not only to both sides of the debate, but that they are told that there ARE two sides to the story. This is the truth, yet you oppose this.
We're talking about something that is unproven and unproveable and which does not meet basic criteria for serious scientific analysis. So what business does this issue have anywhere near a "science" class?
Freedom. Liberty. Choice. Cheers,
Jon
billvon 2,406
>Aw, c'mon Bill! What happens to me if I just refuse to send my kids to school?
Nothing at all, if you homeschool them. The Supreme Court has held several times that you have the right to educate your children however you choose.
If you would rather not teach your children anything at all, then yes, you may be visited by the authorities. You have the right to teach your children in any manner you choose - you do not have the right to neglect them.
If your position is that you should have the right to neglect them, sorry - can't agree there.
>We're talking about something that is unproven and unproveable . . .
It has been demonstrated in laboratories and seen in nature. We understand it better than we do gravity.
>and which does not meet basic criteria for serious scientific analysis. So
>what business does this issue have anywhere near a "science" class?
You're sounding more and more like Rhys. "I don't understand something, therefore it's not science." Not really a valid argument.
Nothing at all, if you homeschool them. The Supreme Court has held several times that you have the right to educate your children however you choose.
If you would rather not teach your children anything at all, then yes, you may be visited by the authorities. You have the right to teach your children in any manner you choose - you do not have the right to neglect them.
If your position is that you should have the right to neglect them, sorry - can't agree there.
>We're talking about something that is unproven and unproveable . . .
It has been demonstrated in laboratories and seen in nature. We understand it better than we do gravity.
>and which does not meet basic criteria for serious scientific analysis. So
>what business does this issue have anywhere near a "science" class?
You're sounding more and more like Rhys. "I don't understand something, therefore it's not science." Not really a valid argument.
billvon 2,406
A classroom in Texas, 2025:
==========================
Teacher: Welcome, everyone. Remember that we have a science test tomorrow, so we'll spend the first part of today reviewing what we learned over the last few weeks. First off, how did life start?
Jimmy: We don't know for sure, but it probably started as a result of creation of simple self-replicating organic molecules in Earth's early atmosphere.
Teacher: Well, OK. Anyone else?
Jane: It started when God made men out of dust.
Teacher: Very good. Anyone else?
Terry: My dad said it started when my grandma was born. He said a stork brought her, so a stork must have flown in from heaven and created the world with his poop.
Teacher: Very unconventional, but excellent! You're really thinking outside the box. Now, let's move on to genetics. What is DNA?
Jimmy: It's what our chromosomes are made of, and they control what our cells do. It's deoxyribonucleic acid I think.
Teacher: OK. Anyone else?
Jane: Well, if people were made from dust, DNA must be dirt. Maybe it's chocolate dirt.
Teacher: Also good, Jane. Now . . .
Jimmy: Wait a minute, Mrs. Crabtree. How can DNA be both an acid and chocolate dirt?
Teacher: Jimmy, we present all sides of the argument here, not just the ones your irrational secular humanist fantasies favor. After President Palin passed the faith-based education act of 2018, it's illegal to penalize a student for giving an answer that he believes with all his heart. Now, let's move on to respiration. What do we breathe?
Jimmy: Well, we breathe oxygen, with a lot of nitrogen from the atmosphere.
Teacher: Anyone else?
Terry: I think we breathe water when it's cold out. It feels like jumping into water when I go out into the cold.
Teacher: Very good. Moving on . . .
Jimmy: But Mrs. Crabtree, what do we put on the test? Do we breathe water or oxygen?
Teacher: Whatever your heart tells you, Jimmy.
Jimmy: But isn't there a right answer?
Teacher: That's it, Jimmy. I'll see you in detention later. You are disrupting the class demanding to know the correct answers to questions. We're not here to teach you dry laboratory facts, we're here to support all student's religious faiths, so that no one feels discriminated against. That's what school is for.
==========================
Teacher: Welcome, everyone. Remember that we have a science test tomorrow, so we'll spend the first part of today reviewing what we learned over the last few weeks. First off, how did life start?
Jimmy: We don't know for sure, but it probably started as a result of creation of simple self-replicating organic molecules in Earth's early atmosphere.
Teacher: Well, OK. Anyone else?
Jane: It started when God made men out of dust.
Teacher: Very good. Anyone else?
Terry: My dad said it started when my grandma was born. He said a stork brought her, so a stork must have flown in from heaven and created the world with his poop.
Teacher: Very unconventional, but excellent! You're really thinking outside the box. Now, let's move on to genetics. What is DNA?
Jimmy: It's what our chromosomes are made of, and they control what our cells do. It's deoxyribonucleic acid I think.
Teacher: OK. Anyone else?
Jane: Well, if people were made from dust, DNA must be dirt. Maybe it's chocolate dirt.
Teacher: Also good, Jane. Now . . .
Jimmy: Wait a minute, Mrs. Crabtree. How can DNA be both an acid and chocolate dirt?
Teacher: Jimmy, we present all sides of the argument here, not just the ones your irrational secular humanist fantasies favor. After President Palin passed the faith-based education act of 2018, it's illegal to penalize a student for giving an answer that he believes with all his heart. Now, let's move on to respiration. What do we breathe?
Jimmy: Well, we breathe oxygen, with a lot of nitrogen from the atmosphere.
Teacher: Anyone else?
Terry: I think we breathe water when it's cold out. It feels like jumping into water when I go out into the cold.
Teacher: Very good. Moving on . . .
Jimmy: But Mrs. Crabtree, what do we put on the test? Do we breathe water or oxygen?
Teacher: Whatever your heart tells you, Jimmy.
Jimmy: But isn't there a right answer?
Teacher: That's it, Jimmy. I'll see you in detention later. You are disrupting the class demanding to know the correct answers to questions. We're not here to teach you dry laboratory facts, we're here to support all student's religious faiths, so that no one feels discriminated against. That's what school is for.
Quote>Aw, c'mon Bill! What happens to me if I just refuse to send my kids to school?
Nothing at all, if you homeschool them...
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Fine. Refund my money to me. You know, the money that was taken at gunpoint to support a school system that teaches your unproven secular religious fantasy as fact.
Why should I HAVE to homeschool them to ensure they get a good education?
Even if evolution was a proven fact, why do you want the schools wasting several weeks' worth of classroom time on the subject?
You are twisiting yourself into a pretzel in order to defend censorship & one-sided religiious indoctrination while claiming to be open-minded & tolerant.
Cheers,
Jon
wolfriverjoe 1,346
QuoteFine. Refund my money to me. You know, the money that was taken at gunpoint to support a school system that teaches your unproven secular religious fantasy as fact.
Refund my money to me. I don't have any kids, so I shouldn't have to fund education at all.
And I don't agree with the zero-tolerance policies they have so I really don't want to fund it.
Except maybe that's what society is about.
Providing for the greater good.
All the retirees in Arizona keep voting to keep taxes down and the schools are badly underfunded. The kids aren't being taught and it's going to bite them in the ass in a few years when all these marginally educated kids hit the streets.
No skills, no education.
If you are so certain about your beliefs, then run for office, get on the scool board and change th ciriculum. Convince the rest of your community that you are correct and make changes (that's what a representative democracy is about). But when other people don't want your beliefs forced on them (what about the Wiccans, don't their beliefs count too?) don't be surprised if people fight back.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
billvon 2,406
>Fine. Refund my money to me.
Nope. You don't get your money back, any more than I get the money back used to support the US military. (You know, the money taken at gunpoint to support your false necon anti-Arab WMD fantasies.)
>Why should I HAVE to homeschool them to ensure they get a
>good education?
You don't. You can send them to any school you like.
>Even if evolution was a proven fact, why do you want the schools
>wasting several weeks' worth of classroom time on the subject?
I don't. I want it to be just one part of the biology curriculum.
>You are twisiting yourself into a pretzel in order to defend censorship
> & one-sided religiious indoctrination while claiming to be open-
>minded & tolerant.
My position has been consistent from the get-go. Nothing wrong with teaching creationism in religious studies classes, nothing wrong with teaching evolution in science class. If you think your creation myth is so weak that students need to be fooled into thinking it's science, that's your problem, not mine (and definitely not student's.)
Nope. You don't get your money back, any more than I get the money back used to support the US military. (You know, the money taken at gunpoint to support your false necon anti-Arab WMD fantasies.)
>Why should I HAVE to homeschool them to ensure they get a
>good education?
You don't. You can send them to any school you like.
>Even if evolution was a proven fact, why do you want the schools
>wasting several weeks' worth of classroom time on the subject?
I don't. I want it to be just one part of the biology curriculum.
>You are twisiting yourself into a pretzel in order to defend censorship
> & one-sided religiious indoctrination while claiming to be open-
>minded & tolerant.
My position has been consistent from the get-go. Nothing wrong with teaching creationism in religious studies classes, nothing wrong with teaching evolution in science class. If you think your creation myth is so weak that students need to be fooled into thinking it's science, that's your problem, not mine (and definitely not student's.)
jakee 1,257
QuoteEven if evolution was a proven fact, why do you want the schools wasting several weeks' worth of classroom time on the subject?
It is a fact that the earth orbits the sun, so why spend more than 2 minutes teaching kids about astrophysics? It is a fact that 1+1=2, so why spend years teaching mathematics? It is a simple fact that Shakespeare was a playwright, so we can dispense with English lit. as well.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
kallend 1,635
More: Philadelphia school computers captured more than 50,000 images of students
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/20/us-school-accused-laptops-spying
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/20/us-school-accused-laptops-spying
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
wmw999 2,127
Specific questions for airman1270:
a. The money is not for your kids' education. It's so that the general population is more educated than it would be otherwise. Do you object to paying any taxas for things you disagree with?
b. Which creation theory would you propose be taught in public schools? There are a lot of them.
Wendy P.
a. The money is not for your kids' education. It's so that the general population is more educated than it would be otherwise. Do you object to paying any taxas for things you disagree with?
b. Which creation theory would you propose be taught in public schools? There are a lot of them.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
>irrational secular humanist religious fantasy?
You're not, as several people have pointed out. Put them in school anywhere you like. Heck, teach them at home. If you are too lazy/cheap to do that, then you'll get whatever the public schools give them.
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This has to be a joke, as I can't believe you don't get this. The law forces me to submit my children to the system, and money is taken from me by force to pay for the secular humanist religious indoctrination that occurs within this system.
If I could simply not send my kids there, and spend my money as I see fit (such as on the private school education you suggest) we would have no quarrel here. However, this is not the case. If I want a good education for my kids, I must pay twice and/or do it myself. It appears you're "down" with that. (Shuffles away with a pompous swagger, pants around his knees...)
What's wrong with my suggested compromise?: Allow the schools to teach whatever they want, and repeal compulsory attendance laws. How would this affect your family in a negative manner?
Freedom. Liberty. Choice. Cheers,
Jon
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