Doh! Another gaffe?

[Lefty 0]

Obama eloquently helps his government health system case. /swoon

Clicky.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[riddler 0]

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In a just-completed New Hampshire town hall meeting, President Obama stated that he never said he supported a single-payer health care system. But as clearly evidenced by this video, in 2003, he declared: "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan."

Here is the actual text of the town hall meeting, in which Obama makes a distinction between Single Payer and Universal healthcare.

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First of all, I want to make a distinction between a universal plan versus a single-payer plan, because those are two different things.

A single-payer plan would be a plan like Medicare for all, or the kind of plan that they have in Canada, where basically government is the only person -- is the only entity that pays for all health care. Everybody has a government-paid-for plan, even though in, depending on which country, the doctors are still private or the hospitals might still be private. In some countries, the doctors work for the government and the hospitals are owned by the government. But the point is, is that government pays for everything, like Medicare for all. That is a single-payer plan.

I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter because, frankly, we historically have had a employer-based system in this country with private insurers, and for us to transition to a system like that I believe would be too disruptive. So what would end up happening would be, a lot of people who currently have employer-based health care would suddenly find themselves dropped, and they would have to go into an entirely new system that had not been fully set up yet. And I would be concerned about the potential destructiveness of that kind of transition. All right? So I'm not promoting a single-payer plan.

I am promoting a plan that will assure that every single person is able to get health insurance at an affordable price, and that if they have health insurance they are getting a good deal from the insurance companies. That's what I'm fighting for. (Applause.)

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Lefty 0]

So what happens when it's "single payer universal health care"?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Butters 0]

From the first link:

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Meanwhile, at another point of today's town hall meeting, Obama was pushing back against the idea that the creation of a new government-run plan would drive private insurers out of business, and he said that UPS and FedEx were doing fine, but "it's the post office that's always having problems." Oops!

From the second link:

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Now, I recognize, though, you make a legitimate -- you raise a legitimate concern. People say, well, how can a private company compete against the government? And my answer is that if the private insurance companies are providing a good bargain, and if the public option has to be self-sustaining -- meaning taxpayers aren't subsidizing it, but it has to run on charging premiums and providing good services and a good network of doctors, just like any other private insurer would do -- then I think private insurers should be able to compete. They do it all the time.

I mean, if you think about -- if you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? No, they are. It's the Post Office that's always having problems.

So, is this whole health plan going to be self-sustaining (meaning taxpayers aren't subsidizing it)? I doubt it ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[BillyVance 34]

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So what happens when it's "single payer universal health care"?

The quality of health care supposedly goes to shit.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[lawrocket 3]

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I am promoting a plan that will assure that every single person is able to get health insurance at an affordable price, and that if they have health insurance they are getting a good deal from the insurance companies. That's what I'm fighting for.

So, he says that he wants to institute a price cap. or, he's saying that others will pay for others to get their insurance.

Take a look at the effect of price caps in the past. Google "gas lines."

Or, he will raise taxes on the wealthy and the middle class.

So, no, not a "single payer."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,475]

>So, he says that he wants to institute a price cap.

No, the plan calls for an "insurance exchange" in which companies compete for people's business. Very similar to an open market but with additional restrictions (i.e. pre-existing conditions have to be covered) and with one more competitive entity (i.e. the government.)

[Lefty 0]

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additional restrictions (i.e. pre-existing conditions have to be covered)

Now that you mention it, how could "insurance" cover pre-existing conditions? Doesn't the program become something else entirely at that point?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[billvon 2,475]

>Now that you mention it, how could "insurance" cover pre-existing conditions?

Mine does.

[wmw999 2,174]

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Now that you mention it, how could "insurance" cover pre-existing conditions? Doesn't the program become something else entirely at that point?

Many, many company-provided health plans cover pre-existing conditions. Do you separate the "insurance" part from the "cover pre-existing conditions" part in that case?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[georgerussia 0]

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Now that you mention it, how could "insurance" cover pre-existing conditions? Doesn't the program become something else entirely at that point?

So far the only health insurance I've seen which didn't cover preexisting conditions was travel insurance or short-term insurance (both have a specific duration they cannot be renewed over).

The consequence is that basically nobody would be legally denied when applying for individual health insurance. Which will likely to raise the premium, and have people dropped it, switching to the government plan.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kallend 1,679]

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>Now that you mention it, how could "insurance" cover pre-existing conditions?

Mine does.

So does mine.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lefty 0]

Well, getting a bunch of responses about how everyone's insurance seems to cover pre-existing conditions is a nice bonus...I thought that was one of the huge criticisms that is usually leveled against the industry. However, it was more of a rhetorical question. Like, why would insurance cover a car that's already wrecked? What would it be "insuring" against?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[wmw999 2,174]

Insurance through work generally covers pre-existing conditions. Insurance that an individual buys is far less likely to cover them, if it's even available. One way not to cover pre-existing conditions is simply to refuse to sell insurance to people with them.

The new insurance plan isn't much of an issue for people with good insurance through their jobs. It's for the people who don't have insurance. And yes, there are probably jobs that will quit offering insurance once a national plan becomes available. Others will keep their plans, because it will help to attract quality employees, just as better insurance plans do now.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Lefty 0]

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Insurance through work generally covers pre-existing conditions. Insurance that an individual buys is far less likely to cover them, if it's even available. One way not to cover pre-existing conditions is simply to refuse to sell insurance to people with them.

The new insurance plan isn't much of an issue for people with good insurance through their jobs. It's for the people who don't have insurance. And yes, there are probably jobs that will quit offering insurance once a national plan becomes available. Others will keep their plans, because it will help to attract quality employees, just as better insurance plans do now.

Wendy P.

It does make one wonder why there are such stark differences between employer-provided insurance and individual insurance. Almost as if the market is being manipulated somehow...

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[bodypilot90 0]

That's easy to uderstand. When my employer changed insurance companies the new insurance had to accept everyone in the group, the good the bad and the ugly. In Florida if you changed employers and had insurance with in 30-90 days of employment, they had to cover pre-existing conditions. At least that is how it was 10 years ago.

[kallend 1,679]

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That's easy to uderstand. When my employer changed insurance companies the new insurance had to accept everyone in the group, the good the bad and the ugly. In Florida if you changed employers and had insurance with in 30-90 days of employment, they had to cover pre-existing conditions. At least that is how it was 10 years ago.

That's because employers have the clout to get decent terms from the insurers. Individuals don't.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bodypilot90 0]

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That's because employers have the clout to get decent terms from the insurers. Individuals don't.

.....or someone refuses insurance because they want to buy jumps. Then they hook in and wants to buy insurance on the way to the hospital. Or get sick, ect, ect. It's like someone trying to get a service contract after the engine blows up. BTW John you change your plugs yet?

[kallend 1,679]

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That's because employers have the clout to get decent terms from the insurers. Individuals don't.

.....or someone refuses insurance because they want to buy jumps. Then they hook in and wants to buy insurance on the way to the hospital. Or get sick, ect, ect. It's like someone trying to get a service contract after the engine blows up. BTW John you change your plugs yet?

A few nice red herrings there. I guess you've never tried to get health insurance as an individual. You will NOT get as good terms as a company can negotiate.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.