Butters 0 #26 January 9, 2009 QuoteIt was a tongue-in-cheek statement; relating to quantifying an experience of nothing. Buddhists experience nothing through meditation."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 January 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteIt was a tongue-in-cheek statement; relating to quantifying an experience of nothing. Buddhists experience nothing through meditation. are they those guys that wear fezzes and drive the little cars? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #28 January 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt was a tongue-in-cheek statement; relating to quantifying an experience of nothing. Buddhists experience nothing through meditation. are they those guys that wear fezzes and drive the little cars?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #29 January 9, 2009 Not being a Buddhist and not being into meditation I can't speak with any experience of the subject. What exactly did you experience when you meditated then? Just nothing? I didn't even know you were a buddhist. Regarding the quantifying of nothing - I'm not saying it isn't relevant, as of course, it is. If you've experienced nothing in regards to God, or even an afterlife, then there isn't any significant reason for you personally to believe then, is there? But on the other hand, what of the people who claim they have experienced something which gives them faith in a God, which gives them faith in an afterlife? Are they simply just mistaken? Are they liars? Fools? Well? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #30 January 9, 2009 QuoteNot being a Buddhist and not being into meditation I can't speak with any experience of the subject. What exactly did you experience when you meditated then? Just nothing? I didn't even know you were a buddhist. While meditating on nothing I experienced nothing. I'm not a Buddhist, I'm an agnostic. QuoteRegarding the quantifying of nothing - I'm not saying it isn't relevant, as of course, it is. If you've experienced nothing in regards to God, or even an afterlife, then there isn't any significant reason for you personally to believe then, is there? There is. QuoteBut on the other hand, what of the people who claim they have experienced something which gives them faith in a God, which gives them faith in an afterlife? What of them? QuoteAre they simply just mistaken? Are they liars? Fools? No. No. No. QuoteWell? Crawling gives me a limited experience of movement. Crawling and walking increases my experience of movement. Crawling, walking, and running increases my experience of movement. Religions limit the experiences of God."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #31 January 9, 2009 QuoteRegarding the quantifying of nothing - I'm not saying it isn't relevant, as of course, it is. If you've experienced nothing in regards to God, or even an afterlife, then there isn't any significant reason for you personally to believe then, is there? Agreed. But this just shows that personal experience isn't much use as evidence. The position of both God and no God cannot be simultaneously true if god is real. QuoteBut on the other hand, what of the people who claim they have experienced something which gives them faith in a God, which gives them faith in an afterlife? Are they simply just mistaken? Are they liars? Fools? They could be mistaken, they could be lying, they could be fools or they could be something else entirely. Without external evidence to verify one of these positions, it is impossible to tell. And this is precicely why external evidence is crucial to validate the truth of any belief. Without it, no one (including the person experiencing it) can know if it was (objectively) real or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #32 January 9, 2009 Quote Quote Not being a Buddhist and not being into meditation I can't speak with any experience of the subject. What exactly did you experience when you meditated then? Just nothing? I didn't even know you were a buddhist. While meditating on nothing I experienced nothing. So why meditate? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #33 January 9, 2009 They could be something else entirely? So far you agree they could be mistaken, they could be liars or fools. Or something else entirely. What is this something else entirely? edit: You also mention personal experience being not much use as evidence - to an extent I disagree, as it could be more than enough evidence for an individual - which has been my point all along. If you've an individual with no experience, what's the solution? What have you done to come to your conclusion? Again, what about these people with experience? Doesn't that play merry hell with your conclusion on the subject? Or, is it because they're all wrong and your right? (Even though you've no idea what they may have experienced?) 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #34 January 9, 2009 Quote>If you can't prove a negative , how can you experience a negative? You can not experience it. Nonsense. Millions of married men experience no sex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #35 January 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Not being a Buddhist and not being into meditation I can't speak with any experience of the subject. What exactly did you experience when you meditated then? Just nothing? I didn't even know you were a buddhist. While meditating on nothing I experienced nothing. So why meditate? So why pray?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #36 January 9, 2009 Quote Quote >If you can't prove a negative , how can you experience a negative? You can not experience it. Nonsense. Millions of married men experience no sex. Is that speaking from experience? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #37 January 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Not being a Buddhist and not being into meditation I can't speak with any experience of the subject. What exactly did you experience when you meditated then? Just nothing? I didn't even know you were a buddhist. While meditating on nothing I experienced nothing. So why meditate? So why pray? Hang on. I'll happily answer your question shortly, but didn't I ask you one first?If you meditate on nothing, and experience nothing, why do you meditate? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #38 January 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Not being a Buddhist and not being into meditation I can't speak with any experience of the subject. What exactly did you experience when you meditated then? Just nothing? I didn't even know you were a buddhist. While meditating on nothing I experienced nothing. So why meditate? So why pray? If you meditate on nothing, and experience nothing, why do you meditate? If you pray on something, and experience nothing, why do you pray? Edit: Why meditate on nothing? Because it's another experience of God. You can continue to crawl, I want to walk, and run, and ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #39 January 9, 2009 Quote If you meditate on nothing, and experience nothing, why do you meditate? It's kind of like tidying the kitchen. The point is to have nothing on the counter. Then whatever you put on the counter, you have room for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #40 January 9, 2009 >Nonsense. Millions of married men experience no sex. Exactly! They are experiencing the situation of "no sex." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #41 January 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Not being a Buddhist and not being into meditation I can't speak with any experience of the subject. What exactly did you experience when you meditated then? Just nothing? I didn't even know you were a buddhist. While meditating on nothing I experienced nothing. So why meditate? So why pray? If you meditate on nothing, and experience nothing, why do you meditate? If you pray on something, and experience nothing, why do you pray? Edit: Why meditate on nothing? Because it's another experience of God. You can continue to crawl, I want to walk, and run, and ... So that's why you meditate on nothing, to experience nothing: 'Because it's another experience of God'? If somebody asked what you were up to; you'd answer: 'I'm going upstairs to meditate on nothing so as to experience nothing, because it's another experience of God!' ? Are you mad? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #42 January 9, 2009 >If somebody asked what you were up to; you'd answer: 'I'm going upstairs to >meditate on nothing so as to experience nothing, because it's another >experience of God!' Not too much different from every other religion. "I'm going to pray instead of doing anything, and I figure that will solve my problems much more neatly than actually DOING anything about them - because then I'm closer to God!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #43 January 9, 2009 Quote So that's why you meditate on nothing, to experience nothing: 'Because it's another experience of God'? If somebody asked what you were up to; you'd answer: 'I'm going upstairs to meditate on nothing so as to experience nothing, because it's another experience of God!' ? Are you mad? Do you believe that God created everything? If you do then experiencing nothing is experiencing God before God created everything. I think the shepherd is leading the sheep to a different pasture ... you might want to run along."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #44 January 9, 2009 Nonsense Bill. What about people who pray and do something about whatever it is they're praying about? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #45 January 9, 2009 What? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #46 January 9, 2009 Quote Nonsense Bill. What about people who pray and do something about whatever it is they're praying about? I'd call that a tacit acknowledgement that the prayer itself isn't going to achieve anything. (Nice to see you continue to be so open minded about other people's beliefs, BTW)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flighty 0 #47 January 9, 2009 QuoteNow lets see what God has to say on the matter. 'Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.”' Notice it refers to the heart and not the head.Somebody needs to read up on MAT 5:22 "but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." ~Cindy~ Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Spelling and grammar errors are left as an exercise for the reader. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #48 January 9, 2009 Not really - it was more a counter-example to Bills' example. I see your point though, but how would you know prayer won't achieve anything? Have you prayed without achieving anything then? p.s. glad you appreciate my open mind; how's your closed mind? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #49 January 9, 2009 QuoteWhat? There are reasons to experience nothing regardless of your belief in a God. Feel free to experiment (and experience) on your own ... unless you're afraid of wolves."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #50 January 9, 2009 >What about people who pray and do something about whatever it is they're >praying about? Well, I guess they'd be like people who meditate on nothing and then go out and actually do something, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
