maadmax 0
Recommended Posts
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
jakee 1,259
QuoteQuoteWhat have we seen of God since then? Nothing. And that should tell you something.
Quite the contrary. We have come from spiritual darkness into the Light of Truth, the sin barrier between God and man has been removed, we can now have a personal, eternal relationship with God. What else could you want?
I must say that sounds very nice and all, but the problem is that you just made it up, didn't you?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
deibido 0
Some people here seem to be having a hard time following simple reasoning. Allow me to illustrate.
God is real beacause it says so in the Bible.
The Bible is the word of God.
The word of God cannot be wrong.
Therefore the Bible cannot be wrong.
See?
The logic is a perfect closed loop.
No loose ends whatsoever.
God is real beacause it says so in the Bible.
The Bible is the word of God.
The word of God cannot be wrong.
Therefore the Bible cannot be wrong.
See?
The logic is a perfect closed loop.
No loose ends whatsoever.
"User assumes all risk"
QuoteQuoteQuote
"Going back to the subject matter, what I found interesting about the site wasn't so much 'evidence' of God, but more an intelligent discussion involving evolution, Big Bang theories, and of course; God.
I just can't see someone arguing against evolution and considering it an intelligent conversation.
Well, as things stand, atheists must have faith the size of a mountain to believe life arose without an intelligent designer.
And where did that intelligent designer come from? If it takes a mountain of faith to think that biological lifearose through natural means, it takes infinitely more to believe that an intelligence capable of designing us and the universe we live in arose by chance.
Maybe he didn't come from anywhere. Maybe he's always been there. Maybe time outside of our universe is completely different to how it's understood here. Didn't time begin with the Big Bang? To even think we have all the answers now demonstrates nothing more than a closed mind and arrogance. Maybe the laws of physics are completely different to how they're understood here too. Why would He need a creator if we, according to you, don't need one? To have complete belief of either requires an enormous amount of faith.
QuoteDespite expensive equipment and the promise of the most famous Nobel Prize in history, no scientist has reproduced the spontaneous generation of life in the lab.
From Miller/Urey onwards many steps and possible mechanisms of abiogenesis have been demonstrated experimentally.
Despite expensive equipment and the promise of the most famous Nobel Prize in history, no scientist has reproduced the spontaneous generation of life in the lab. Further to that though, I'd expect such an experiment to be successful within our lifetimes. But the point remains.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
nerdgirl 0
QuoteMy understanding is that the laws of physics are very precise for energy and matter. The voltage potential generated by atmospherically charged particles dictate the path of lightning. Therefore the path of lightning is not random but follows a precise organized pathway, serving a vital function(purpose) in our ecosystem. Which is but another example of a universe filled with purpose. Evolution is just an observation. It has its random aspects, but overall it is a purpose driven system.
Thanks. What you wrote is illustrative of why I made my earlier assertion that the thinking on predictability of lightning is a good comparison case for evolution. I suspect evolution is better understood physical-chemical process than lightning.
? What you’ve described is on the atomic level. Yes, theoretically, interactions of charged ions is well-understood.* (* Leaving aside early 21st century post-doctoral level theoretical physics for the moment – I don’t know of a specific exception but I can imagine challenges.)
The exact mechanism by which lightning occurs in nature is not well understood. When, where, and the extent (current) cannot be predicted.
One can do a sort of epidemiology of lightning to statistically predict when and where it is more likely, e.g., presence of large
There are theories regarding lightning formation and discharge. W/r/t discharge, there are two main competing theories: convection and precipitation.
As you acknowledge, there will be a random elements to observed lightning discharge, e.g., arising due to fluid dynamics of the atmosphere. Similarly there are random elements to observed evolution.
Please don’t anyone interpret what I write as saying or asserting in any way, shape, or form that there is not a heck of a lot of real science regarding lightning formation and discharge.
Similarly, we can readily observe and predict (yes, predict) changes (evolution) in smaller systems (e.g., proteins and bacteria) when subjected to certain conditions, say exposure to a specific antibiotic, via evolutionary theory, or through directed evolution, aka DNA shuffling or molecular breeding. Examples of directed evolution of variety of organisms, most of the purpose in those cases was biomedical or diagnostic … ultimately for a profit by Maxygen, Inc. Again, those use theory in the same ways that one uses theories of electromagnetism, electrostatics, hydrometrics, and fluid dynamics to try to understand thunderstorm electrification and lightning.
As a side tangent, when DNA shuffling was invented in the early 1990s, one concern raised was that bioterrorists would use it to evolve new, more transmissible, more lethal, more robust … basically badder “superbugs.”
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
Maybe life didn't come from anywhere. Maybe life always been there.....
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Cumulonimbus clouds Marg, cumulonimbus.
(In case anyone's interested, lightning can also occur during volcanic eruptions and dust storms. I've witnessed 'local' lightning during a dust storm one night at the start of GW II, without any thunder which you'd normally expect. Spooky.)
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
jakee 1,259
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
"Going back to the subject matter, what I found interesting about the site wasn't so much 'evidence' of God, but more an intelligent discussion involving evolution, Big Bang theories, and of course; God.
I just can't see someone arguing against evolution and considering it an intelligent conversation.
Well, as things stand, atheists must have faith the size of a mountain to believe life arose without an intelligent designer.
And where did that intelligent designer come from? If it takes a mountain of faith to think that biological lifearose through natural means, it takes infinitely more to believe that an intelligence capable of designing us and the universe we live in arose by chance.
Maybe he didn't come from anywhere. Maybe he's always been there. Maybe time outside of our universe is completely different to how it's understood here. Didn't time begin with the Big Bang? To even think we have all the answers now demonstrates nothing more than a closed mind and arrogance. Maybe the laws of physics are completely different to how they're understood here too. Why would He need a creator if we, according to you, don't need one? To have complete belief of either requires an enormous amount of faith.
I did not suggest that a creator needed a creator. I simply pointed out to you the folly of your argument. If biological life is too improbable to have come about by chance, then an intelligence capable of making us just happening to be is infinitely more improbable. Any hypothesis that involves a creator is infinitely more improbable than one that involves only natural forces.
The second point that you have entirely overlooked is this - we know that we exist. We know that we must have come about by some means, and we have enormous amounts evidence that natural means are capabe of producing us. Not only is it insanely improbable for a supernatural intelligence capable of producing us to exist, we have no evidence that it exists at all, and no reason to think that one must exist. It has no more force than a fairy story.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Coreece 190
QuoteWhat a load of codswallop.
If you were to collate a small pocket book of words like "codswallop" and "claptrap"....I would buy it!
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
maadmax 0
Sounds good, I think.
maadmax 0
I must say that sounds very nice and all, but the problem is that you just made it up, didn't you?
Not at all, that is Christianity.
jakee 1,259
QuoteQuote
I must say that sounds very nice and all, but the problem is that you just made it up, didn't you?
Not at all, that is Christianity.
Which is made up.
Unless you'd care to provide a shred of evidence that what you said is actually true?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
maadmax 0
Not at all, that is Christianity.
Which is made up.
Unless you'd care to provide a shred of evidence that what you said is actually true?
Which is made up.
Unless you'd care to provide a shred of evidence that what you said is actually true?
Sorry, currently the information I gather and test by life experiences, is acquired through faith and spiritual perspicacity. Since, for the time being, there really is no other way to accumulate it. In the next phase of life, after the death experience, I will be glad to supply all the proof you desire.
...
Do you not think that being dead will be very much like it was before you were born? If we have an eternal soul, then why cant I remember anything from before I was born? Where was I ?
If I am supposed to spend eternity in Heaven, then why do I have to be trapped in this body that looks , sounds, feels, and acts like a monkey? why cant I just go straight to the pearly gates? what is the point if being here at all? If I choose to switch to another belief and this is the wrong one, then where do I go then? Do I burn in hell? Is it like hell in South Park? If it is , can I request a fast track ticket without being judged??
Can any creationist provide a single SHRED of evidence that religion is not a story constructed by humans in order to control humans?
come on I dont want to be a monkey anymore!
If I am supposed to spend eternity in Heaven, then why do I have to be trapped in this body that looks , sounds, feels, and acts like a monkey? why cant I just go straight to the pearly gates? what is the point if being here at all? If I choose to switch to another belief and this is the wrong one, then where do I go then? Do I burn in hell? Is it like hell in South Park? If it is , can I request a fast track ticket without being judged??
Can any creationist provide a single SHRED of evidence that religion is not a story constructed by humans in order to control humans?
come on I dont want to be a monkey anymore!
What happened to all the folks that dies before God was invented?
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
"Going back to the subject matter, what I found interesting about the site wasn't so much 'evidence' of God, but more an intelligent discussion involving evolution, Big Bang theories, and of course; God.
I just can't see someone arguing against evolution and considering it an intelligent conversation.
Well, as things stand, atheists must have faith the size of a mountain to believe life arose without an intelligent designer.
And where did that intelligent designer come from? If it takes a mountain of faith to think that biological lifearose through natural means, it takes infinitely more to believe that an intelligence capable of designing us and the universe we live in arose by chance.
Maybe he didn't come from anywhere. Maybe he's always been there. Maybe time outside of our universe is completely different to how it's understood here. Didn't time begin with the Big Bang? To even think we have all the answers now demonstrates nothing more than a closed mind and arrogance. Maybe the laws of physics are completely different to how they're understood here too. Why would He need a creator if we, according to you, don't need one? To have complete belief of either requires an enormous amount of faith.
I did not suggest that a creator needed a creator. I simply pointed out to you the folly of your argument. If biological life is too improbable to have come about by chance, then an intelligence capable of making us just happening to be is infinitely more improbable.
Why? You didn't read what I said earlier. What if our creator has always existed? Who ever suggested he was born to a female like everyone else?
QuoteThe second point that you have entirely overlooked is this - we know that we exist.
Never!
QuoteWe know that we must have come about by some means, and we have enormous amounts evidence that natural means are capabe of producing us. Not only is it insanely improbable for a supernatural intelligence capable of producing us to exist, we have no evidence that it exists at all, and no reason to think that one must exist. It has no more force than a fairy story.
Perhaps you have every reason to believe one doesn't exist, but funnily enough, billions of others think differently to you mate. Could well be that if you'd shared similiar experiences to those who believe in an afterlife/God you might not have such a closed mind to the possibility. To be honest, it amazes me you and other atheists are so closed to the idea.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
jakee 1,259
QuoteWhy? You didn't read what I said earlier. What if our creator has always existed? Who ever suggested he was born to a female like everyone else?
No-one. But it's still insanely more improbable that an intelligence capable of designing us and the universe we live in just happens to eternally exist, rather than an eternal cycle of natural causes.
Theorising an organised intelligence as the starting point is always going to be far, far, far more improbable than theorising natural things as the starting point.
QuotePerhaps you have every reason to believe one doesn't exist, but funnily enough, billions of others think differently to you mate.
So what? Reality isn't a democracy.
QuoteCould well be that if you'd shared similiar experiences to those who believe in an afterlife/God you might not have such a closed mind to the possibility. To be honest, it amazes me you and other atheists are so closed to the idea.
I'm not at all closed to the idea. If someone can present me with evidence that a deity exists then i'll start thinking that a deity may exist. But until that happens, there is no reason to think that a deity exists.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Coreece 190
QuoteIf someone can present me with evidence that a deity exists then i'll start thinking that a deity may exist.
That would be cheating....it doesn't work that way mate....it's the other way around....wish it weren't so, but its always something, ya know?
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
jakee 1,259
QuoteQuoteIf someone can present me with evidence that a deity exists then i'll start thinking that a deity may exist.
That would be cheating....it doesn't work that way mate....it's the other way around....wish it weren't so, but its always something, ya know?
Nope, my way is correct. Doing it the other way round only leads to self deception. Confirmation bias is a well understood phenomenon.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
maadmax 0
--- Do you not think that being dead will be very much like it was before you were born? If we have an eternal soul, then why cant I remember anything from before I was born? Where was I ?
If I am supposed to spend eternity in Heaven, then why do I have to be trapped in this body that looks , sounds, feels, and acts like a monkey? why cant I just go straight to the pearly gates? what is the point if being here at all? If I choose to switch to another belief and this is the wrong one, then where do I go then? Do I burn in hell? Is it like hell in South Park? If it is , can I request a fast track ticket without being judged??
Good, that is one big hurdle out of the way. May your spiritual journey be nothing but blue sky
from here on out.
...
If I am supposed to spend eternity in Heaven, then why do I have to be trapped in this body that looks , sounds, feels, and acts like a monkey? why cant I just go straight to the pearly gates? what is the point if being here at all? If I choose to switch to another belief and this is the wrong one, then where do I go then? Do I burn in hell? Is it like hell in South Park? If it is , can I request a fast track ticket without being judged??
Quote
Many good questions, but apart from a passing curiosity they are distracting and irrelevant to developing spiritual self awareness and discovering the Truth of God. All questions will be answered at the proper time.
______________________
______________________
--come on I dont want to be a monkey anymore!
Good, that is one big hurdle out of the way. May your spiritual journey be nothing but blue sky
from here on out.
...
Quote
I'm not at all closed to the idea. If someone can present me with evidence that a deity exists then i'll start thinking that a deity may exist. But until that happens, there is no reason to think that a deity exists.
You're still showing a closed mind because you know that nobodies going to present you with such evidence. How would you imagine it might happen? An angel bumps into you in the street and invites you into a room where God's sat waiting for you? Would he get up to poke you in the chest and ask: 'What've you got to say for yourself now bugger lugs?'
For me it's more insanely improbable we're just here because we are.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
jakee 1,259
QuoteYou're still showing a closed mind because you know that nobodies going to present you with such evidence.
And what does that tell you?
Believing in fluff and nonsense with no evidence or reason is not the criteria of an open mind.
QuoteHow would you imagine it might happen? An angel bumps into you in the street and invites you into a room where God's sat waiting for you? Would he get up to poke you in the chest and ask: 'What've you got to say for yourself now bugger lugs?'
Why not? If there was a God, that's something he could achieve quite easily.
QuoteFor me it's more insanely improbable we're just here because we are.
But it's not improbable that God's there just because he is? The problem with you people is that you only apply your incredulity to one side of the argument. It's a quite remarkable set of mental blinkers you're wearing.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
So what happens when a match goes out or a bacteria dies or an insect? What about a tree or a dog or a monkey etc....
We're all just chemical reactions..... Nowt special about humans, is there?
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
We're all just chemical reactions..... Nowt special about humans, is there?
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Hey, you made me smile. Good job.
It didn't happen unless you have pictures.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites