Palin did a good job

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>If this "civil union" is something like domestic partnership, which
>is basically not really regulated, they cannot have the same rights.

Then we change the laws that regulate domestic partnerships. Or we make same-sex marriage legal. In both cases, all that matters to me is that everyone has the same rights regardless of their sexual orientation.

Or we stop coddling religious nuts who can't get with the times on 'marriage.' Too bad the Democrats outside of CA and a few other states are still too chickenshit to end this for good.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Or we stop coddling religious nuts who can't get with the times on 'marriage.'

Actually I can't understand what they're against. Marriage for religious nuts should be something which is done by a priest in a church, and otherwise it is just a form of civil union (and probably still adultery in terms of the Bible). In this case our marriage is definitely a civil union, even though I'm married to a woman, since we didn't go through all this church stuff. I wonder what kind of difference would it make for a religious nut if I married (in the same way) a man instead?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Then we change the laws that regulate domestic partnerships.

So your opinion is that it's the "marriage" word they're against, and if we implement something else called a "civil union" which provides the same rights and responsibilities (like USSR implemented a "civil marriage" in 1918 to allow people from different religions to be married), nobody would be against it?

Other laws need to be changed as well. For example, does the federal government or the state of California recognize a same-sex marriage if two people got married in another country where it is legal? Then, of course, it will raise more questions: will we recognize polygamy marriages if they are legal in another country? And so on.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[billvon 2,435]

>So your opinion is that it's the "marriage" word they're against, and if we
> implement something else called a "civil union" which provides the same >rights and responsibilities (like USSR implemented a "civil marriage" in
>1918 to allow people from different religions to be married), nobody
>would be against it?

Oh, I'm sure people would be against it. I am talking about my own opinion, no one else's.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

I wonder what kind of difference would it make for a religious nut if I married (in the same way) a man instead?

Well, it would ruin their own marriage, of course.

Though, oddly, my marriage is still the same now as it was before the CA judges decided to allow same-sex marriages here. Go figure.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Well, it would ruin their own marriage, of course.

How? My marriage wasn't "sacred" by their God or their priest anyway. We just went to a government authority on our way to work, signed papers, got the marriage certificate and went to work. Took about 10 minutes total. No wedding dresses, no wedding vows, no wedding rings, and definitely no priests. Thus I assume that in the eyes of a religious nut this is not even a marriage as they see it, and therefore it should not matter for them if I "married" a man or a woman, right?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

How?

Your guess is as good as mine.

I'm usually pretty good about seeing all sides of an issue, but this is an issue I just don't get. I am unable to comprehend why anyone thinks that allowing same-sex couples to marry somehow affects marriage for everyone else.

[grimmie 177]

Yeah, when Ellen and Portia got married it ruined my wife's view on our marriage. We haven't been able to sleep. Our life is hell. Damn gay marriage ruins everything. I think it started the financial crisis. I'm getting an ulcer. I hope Sarah's preacher puts a hex on those gays. They deserve it. Ruining my marriage like that, how dare them.

[billvon 2,435]

> Damn gay marriage ruins everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixkck8QnjY

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

How?

Your guess is as good as mine.

I'm usually pretty good about seeing all sides of an issue, but this is an issue I just don't get. I am unable to comprehend why anyone thinks that allowing same-sex couples to marry somehow affects marriage for everyone else.

Isn't it obvious? It queers it for everyone.

[robinheid 0]

Hey Jeanne,

I'm not quite sure what to make of your "comments" that I have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, blah blah blah.... and that, further, I support the notion that no exceptions should be made, bleah, bleah, bleah...

For whatever reason, you seem to willfully ignore or misunderstand what I think is my clearly stated position:

* that I strongly support public policy that keeps abortion legal for those women who choose it; but

* at the same time support making sure that this choice is an _informed_ choice, as in: you are committing homicide when you kill a fetus because that fetus is, in fact, human, so be very sure that your heart and soul are clear about that fact if you decide to pull the trigger for "choice."

It is, in fact, extremely well documented that significant numbers of women who have abortions have psychological and emotional problems related thereto because they did not, in fact, make an informed choice.

I know a number of them personally and that uninformed "choice" that they made continues to eat at their hearts and souls and show up in their attitudes and words years and even decades after they made that "choice" to kill what they realized too late was, in fact, a human being - their baby.

Criminalizing abortion does nothing but amplify and complicate this trauma, and that is why, as I have repeatedly explained in previous posts, and in published essays in multiple forums spanning more than 20 years, abortion must always be legal: Public policy must be geared toward minimizing, reducing and eliminating individual and social harm, not contributing thereto.

That is also why I held your feet to the fire of clarity and awareness about what abortion actually _is_ because without that clarity and awareness it is hard to make a "choice" when you don't really know what it is you are choosing.

So Jeanne, continue to ignore and/or misunderstand my actual positions if you want, continue with your astonishingly vicious personal attacks based solely upon that ignorance and/or misunderstanding if you want, but none of that changes the fact that we both agree abortion should remain legal.

robin heid

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[robinheid 0]

Dear "jraf,"

The nonsense you spouted in your personal attack on me is rivaled only by that listed in your personal profile.

Yes, I am in fact a lot older than you and I have learned this much in those extra years: Try not to shoot off your mouth on subjects about which you know nothing.

And it is clear that you know nothing about the Messiah or the rest of the socialists hiding behind the name "Democrat."

Read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto and you will find that key elements of the Democratic platform have plagiarized that manifesto.

Then you can read the Messiah's own books and learn that the primary influences in his intellectual life are Marxist. And lest you think that statement is open to interpretation, keep in mind that these are the Messiah's own words - at least those not ghost-written for him by Bill Ayers, whose idea of "educational reform" is to turn our children into instruments of the socialist revolution. Details at:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122411943821339043.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

But that's another thread. Check out this page on snopes.com: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

It speaks to an email going around that uses excerpts from the Messiah's books to paint him as a socialist. The intriguing thing about this snopes.com entry is that, yes, a couple of the email passages are misstated, but the clarifications -- using the Messiah's own words -- are even more clearly socialist than either the accurate or inaccurate email passages alone.

And then, of course, there is Joe the Plumber, who got the Messiah to blow his own cover by saying he wants to spread the wealth around.

That is what socialism is, Mr. "jraf:" From each according to his ability; to each according to his needs.

the Messiah _said_ this when he said spreading the wealth around is a good thing: That as soon as you start getting ahead, he will take your money and hold you back so that those not as blessed in ability or good fortune can catch up.

There is a famous quote by Phelps Adams that sums this up nicely:

"Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: No man should have so much. The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: All men should have as much."

Given the Messiah's _own words_ to Joe the plumber, into which group does he fall?

And after you answer that, ask yourself: "Is that what I really want for my children?"

robin heid

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[DanG 1]

I hope you realize that however thoughtful and insightful your argments are, as soon as you start refering to Obama as Messiah, you completely invalidate your credibility.

And that goes for people who use McSame, RePUBICans, Caribou Barbie, et al. as well.

Grow up a little, and maybe you people could actally sway others to your way of thinking.

- Dan G

[billvon 2,435]

Robin, Dan, cut it out. No personal attacks.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Oh, the irony:

"Only an unproven and inexperienced politician like Barack Obama would have to rely so heavily on an another man's resume in making the case for his own candidacy -- and it shows that he's just not ready." -- Tucker Bounds, spokesman McCain-Palin 2008

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Shotgun 1]

Speaking of Palin, apparently she wants a federal marriage amendment. Just one more reason why her and McCain won't be getting my vote.

Quote

Brody: On Constitutional marriage amendment , are, are you for something like that?

Palin: I am, in my own, state, I have voted along with the vast majority of Alaskans who had the opportunity to vote to amend our Constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman. I wish on a federal level that that's where we would go because I don't support gay marriage. I'm not going to be out there judging individuals, sitting in a seat of judgment telling what they can and can't do, should and should not do, but I certainly can express my own opinion here and take actions that I believe would be best for traditional marriage and that's casting my votes and speaking up for traditional marriage that, that instrument that it's the foundation of our society is that strong family and that's based on that traditional definition of marriage, so I do support that.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/467179.aspx

[DanG 1]

Not intended to be a personal attack. I guess I should have left out the "Grow up a little" line. No offense intended, I apologize.

I actually think Robin has some good points, especially in his discussion above regarding abortion. I was really just trying to say that people would take his points more seriously if he avoided the name calling and silly pejoratives that litter this site.

Again, no PA intended, if anything I was trying to suggest ways to make his views more widely considered.

- Dan G

[robinheid 0]

Dan,

Thanks for your note. I didn't take it as a personal attack, certainly not compared to the multitude of nasty things said about me in this thread that went unwarned and unsanctioned.

You have to read higher in the thread to get the context, though. You see, I was being personally attacked by several lefty posters for using the Messiah's actual name - Barack Hussein Obama - so I said I'd call him the Messiah because that didn't seem to offend them.

And sure enough, it didn't - didn't hear a peep from any of them as soon as I started calling him the Messiah.

Of course, after the Al Smith dinner the other night, that name is now outdated: "I was not born in a manger," said He Whose Name Cannot Be Used. "I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father, Jor-el, to save the Planet Earth."

Oh joy! Let's put in control of the world's most powerful country and its thousands of strategic and tactical nuclear weapons... a community organizer who thinks he's a comic book character from outer space here to save the world.


robin heid

P.S. Definition from www.freedictionary.com:

meg·a·lo·ma·ni·a
n.
1. A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.
2. An obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions.

Noun 1. megalomaniac - a pathological egotist

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[billvon 2,435]

>Let's put in control of the world's most powerful country and its thousands
>of strategic and tactical nuclear weapons... a community organizer who
>thinks he's a comic book character from outer space here to save the world.

Wow. I thought they were just telling jokes. I had no idea they were serious!

This changes everything. Some parts of that dinner I recall:

McCain: "Events are moving fast in my campaign. And, yes, it's true that this morning I dismissed my entire team of senior advisers. All of their positions will now be held by a man named "Joe the Plumber." "

Did you get that? Joe the Plumber is going to be IN CHARGE of our military, and the FAA, and the CDC, and NASA! Do you really want him making the decision to go to war?

McCain: "they even turned up an ACORN registration form that bore the name of one Mickey Mouse. We're checking the paw prints.Although, I might let that one go, I'm pretty sure the big rat's a Republican."

Are you going to vote for a man who thinks Mickey Mouse is a real person?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

McCain: "they even turned up an ACORN registration form that bore the name of one Mickey Mouse. We're checking the paw prints.Although, I might let that one go, I'm pretty sure the big rat's a Republican."

Are you going to vote for a person who thinks Mickey Mouse is a real person?

It's also a continuation of an American leader giving half truths. His next sentence should have been "And ACORN notified the elections committee to let them know of possible fraudulent registrations. Remember, the law prevents them from selectively removing any registrations."

But then that would rob him of a talking point that panders to people that don't read or think independently.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Remster 24]

lets get back to Palin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kO9TtHYzQ



Terry's back, baby!

Remster

[robinheid 0]

You fell very neatly into the (mouse)trap there, billy boy... as I knew you would. Let me explain the difference for you:

John McCain told self-effacing jokes that were actually funny; the Cartoon Messiah didn't.

Yes, I would much prefer Joe the Plumber making war decisions than the Cartoon Messiah.

And yes, I'd much rather vote for a man who thinks Mickey Mouse is a big republican rat than a Cartoon Messiah who thinks he himself is a comic book hero from outer space here to save the world.

robin heid

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[billvon 2,435]

>John McCain told self-effacing jokes . . .

Wait! Now you're saying they are jokes?

>Yes, I would much prefer Joe the Plumber making war decisions than the
>Cartoon Messiah.

And now you're saying they're not. Odd. Almost as if you are holding two contradictory beliefs in your mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.

[robinheid 0]

I said:

John McCain told self-effacing jokes; the Cartoon Messiah didn't.

That means the Cartoon Messiah did _not_ tell jokes.

Maybe I should have left off the adjective so you could understand the sentence better.

As for your second contention ("now you're saying they're not (jokes)"), you are similarly out to logical and grammatical lunch: I said no such thing. I did not address the source material; I just answered _your question_ about whether or not I preferred to have Joe the Plumber making war decisions.

Really, billy boy, maybe you should brush up on Logic 101 and basic English grammar before you try debating me. That way it might sorta be a contest.

robin heid

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[billvon 2,435]

>John McCain told self-effacing jokes; the Cartoon Messiah didn't.
>That means the Cartoon Messiah did _not_ tell jokes.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.