Patent/invention question

[JackC 0]

I think this is one of those things that I'll have to write off to experience but it's still bloody annoying.

I'm a physicist and a couple of years ago I interviewed for a job at a start-up company to join their research team. During the interview they had me brainstorming ideas on one of their research dilemmas which was a way to perform 3D subsurface imaging. I came up with a method which at the time I was quite proud of because I knew it would work. By the reaction I got from them, I could tell they hadn't thought of it.

Anyway, in due course I was told that I didn't get the job. Oh well, shit happens.

Then today I find that the sneaky bastards have patented my idea and are producing imaging equipment using that very technique. So the interview was probably just a free consultancy excercise and they hit the jackpot.

Now I don't much care about the job but they are making money off my idea which is bloody annoying. Since I didn't keep any records of my idea other than conversations with friends after the interview, it's my word against theirs and they have the patent so I assume I'm screwed. The question is, do I have any course of action open to me or is it a case of learn to patent your own crap before they do?

[billvon 2,466]

If you can claim prior art or prior discovery (through articles, disclosures, patent filings, even a notebook) then you have a chance. Otherwise, not too much of a chance.

[shropshire 0]

Have a chat with a Patent or IP specialist.
This case looks shady but I've always uderstood that any ideas developed in a companies time belong to them.

You also can't patant anything if it's be made public. SO if you told anyone else about this then it looks like they can not patent it (maybe).

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The invention should never have been made public in any way, anywhere in the world.

Also:-

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An invention is not patentable if it is:
• a discovery
• a scientific theory or mathematical method
• an aesthetic creation such as a literary, dramatic or artistic work
• a scheme or method for performing a mental act, playing a game or doing business
• the presentation of information, or a computer program
• a new animal or plant variety
• a method of treatment of the human or animal body by surgery or therapy
• a method of diagnosis

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[JackC 0]

As I suspected.

I didn't write anything up at the time because I thought I stood a good chance of getting the job. So I have nothing to back up my claim.

Stuff I invent on company time rightfully belongs to the company (I signed the contract after all) but I wasn't on their time, I was on my time. I think it was a bit low for them to get the benefit of free consultancy and not even offer me the job though. My ideas were obviously good enough.

I guess that I have to take this as a lesson in protecting my own IP.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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You also can't patant anything if it's be made public.

In the US you have a year to file after disclosure. So if you talk about your invention at a conference, publish, etc you can still file but you have to be pretty quick about it. In Europe and elsewhere, once you disclose you're SOL. Doesn't sound like that will be of any help in the present case, though.

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[shropshire 0]

Still worth talking to an IP specialist.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[JackC 0]

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Still worth talking to an IP specialist.

Already on it.

[kelpdiver 2]

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it's my word against theirs and they have the patent so I assume I'm screwed.

sounds like it. Given their demonstrated gratitude, they can assert that they came up with it.

Lessons...well if they're asking you to solve problems in an interview, maybe that's a time to pull out your own interview contract with IP rights spelled out.

Other lesson - you didn't want to work for these fuckers.

[JackC 0]

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Lessons...well if they're asking you to solve problems in an interview, maybe that's a time to pull out your own interview contract with IP rights spelled out.

Well, I'm not too sure how that would go down with me if I was doing the interview. Plus points for business acumen, negative points for maybe being a bit too pedantic.

Interesting thought though. Do you think that pulling out IP contracts would negatively affect your chances at interview? How would you react if someone you were interviewing asked for you to sign an NDA?

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Other lesson - you didn't want to work for these fuckers.

Yup.

Actually, they pulled another fast one on me. They said it would be a laid back interview so not to prepare anything (usually a presentation is in order in my business). When I got there they gave me 15 minutes and a flip-chart to prepare a 10 minute presentation I had to give to the entire company. No pressure eh?

I thought that was pure genius. Twisted but pure genius.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Interesting thought though. Do you think that pulling out IP contracts would negatively affect your chances at interview? How would you react if someone you were interviewing asked for you to sign an NDA?

Yeah, I'd say it would look bad, even if it is a fair tit for tat. A lot of companies act in this tacky manner - using the lure of employment to fish, wasting a lot of people's time.

I think given the circumstance you describe, I'd want a consulting agreement signed paying $150/hr. In that case, they would own the IP, but that's a rare item. Giving a presentation to the company for free...no thanks.

I think it all boils down to yet another startup with no clue or interest in HR. As annoying as that group tends to be, most of their procedures exist for good cause.

[rhys 0]

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You also can't patant anything if it's be made public.

that is not true, thsat is why they have the preliminary application(very basic overview) once that is filed your priority date is from that time and you can contact experts in the field to see if it is worth pursuing, you will be safe from being scammed like the poor origonal poster.

I have a patent for intergrated camera helmets of any shape or form.

http://www.iponz.govt.nz/pls/web/DBSSITEN.main?p_access_no=4BE2F56281CC4CA355033A3A244A0DC1 The link wont take you through to the patent so type in the words 'camera system' in the patent search field, and click the 'Submit query' button. My name, Rhys Tristan Kempen.

i am no expert in the field but had a good idea a few years ago, the preliminary application is there so you can make the patent public before the complete specification is filed.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[FreeflyChile 0]

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You also can't patant anything if it's be made public.

that is not true, thsat is why they have the preliminary application(very basic overview) once that is filed your priority date is from that time and you can contact experts in the field to see if it is worth pursuing, you will be safe from being scammed like the poor origonal poster.

I have a patent for intergrated camera helmets of any shape or form.

http://www.iponz.govt.nz/pls/web/DBSSITEN.main?p_access_no=4BE2F56281CC4CA355033A3A244A0DC1 The link wont take you through to the patent so type in the words 'camera system' in the patent search field, and click the 'Submit query' button. My name, Rhys Tristan Kempen.

i am no expert in the field but had a good idea a few years ago, the preliminary application is there so you can make the patent public before the complete specification is filed.

Did you do any type of international filing for this patent?

[rhys 0]

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Did you do any type of international filing for this patent?

i couldn't afford it at the time and my time was running out.

i am sitting on it so to speak, I cannot get the IPT patent anymore but New Zealand belongs to the treaty so no one else in the treaty countries can get it now.

It cost me $2k for the NZ one and would have cost me $10k for the IPT so i simply couldn't afford it.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[FreeflyChile 0]

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Did you do any type of international filing for this patent?

i couldn't afford it at the time and my time was running out.

i am sitting on it so to speak, I cannot get the IPT patent anymore but New Zealand belongs to the treaty so no one else in the treaty countries can get it now.

It cost me $2k for the NZ one and would have cost me $10k for the IPT so i simply couldn't afford it.

I was mainly asking because if you did not file internationally, your ability to prevent others abroad from infringing may be limited.

[shropshire 0]

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You also can't patant anything if it's be made public.

that is not true........

I guess that depends where you are or who you believe... I had heard this the other week from our IP man and then I found it here.. My Source to.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rhys 0]

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I was mainly asking because if you did not file internationally, your ability to prevent others abroad from infringing may be limited.

true, but nobody can patent it in any of the treaty countries now due to my, prior art.

Not sure if I can take out individual patents in other countries, sure hope so.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix