friendstersux 0 #51 April 27, 2008 QuoteI'll 2nd that... with.... One would hope that fellow cops would rat them out not close ranks and support and defend them... but once again, this happens and it stinks. Really? And your source of information is from where? Please, do tell.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #52 April 27, 2008 QuoteMost cops are good and respect the citizens of this country. The vast majority are great. There are those, however, that are loose cannons, to say the least. Is that your opinion or is that a fact? What's the basis on which you stated that there are those cops that are loose cannons? Are you referring to this subject regarding sean bell or are you just throwing it out there?Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #53 April 27, 2008 That's right... all cops are innocent, nope have never been found guilty of any thing or sent to prison.... I wonder what Internal Affairs departments do all day... must be like the Carlsberg Complaints department (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #54 April 27, 2008 Tony, if you're referring to other cops and not the cops that we are discussing in this subject, why don't you start another thread? Is it too hard for you start one on your own do you feel that it's necessary to contribute nonconstructive posts to this thread?Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #55 April 27, 2008 Quotecops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops. Wow, that's pretty intelligent of you to add that. Thank you. We are all enlightened by such words of wisdom. I bet you and most of the other cop haters here, whom become victims of a crime(s), will be one of the first people to call the cops.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #56 April 27, 2008 You're not the first poster to be a combat expert. Nice arm chair quarterbacking. Quote this is the normal trend in SC, everyone who has never been in a situation like this are always the ones who are the biggest critics of how the events unfolded. Lines like, "if you can't make calm decisions under fire you shouldn't be a cop", or "if you can't hit what you're shooting at in one shot while under stress than find a different job" are typical. Obviously not dealing with stressful situations makes you an expert on them.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #57 April 27, 2008 QuoteQuotecops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops. Wow, that's pretty intelligent of you to add that. Thank you. We are all enlightened by such words of wisdom. I bet you and most of the other cop haters here, whom become victims of a crime(s), will be one of the first people to call the cops. I don't see where that is a less intelligent statement as bringing up someone's criminal past. It would seem prejudgemental (sp) to say that these guys were hard core because they did their time for something prior. The cops can't look at me and tell if I have a previous record and if I just have to be in the wrong car at the wrong time and I get hurt by a cop, does that give him the right to bring up something I did 20 years ago (no, I did nothing 20 years ago, but I'm using speculation, which a lot of is going on here)~~April Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloudseeker2001 0 #58 April 27, 2008 "We still have a death that occurred. We still have police officers that have to live with the fact that there was a death involved in their case," Lynch said. A kill is a feather in their cap, make no mistake about that. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n23x 0 #59 April 27, 2008 Quote That statement was made by 2 known felons with serious criminal records regarding police officers not identifying themselves. I guess you chose to believe their side of the story. Are they back in jail? Having a criminal record doesn't take away all of your credibility, just like being a cop doesn't make you infallible. Quote If I take a pen from my pocket, and jam it into your eye and blind you. I am guilty of assault. I was armed with a pen. An object that is not traditionally viewed as a weapon, can in fact, by virtue of the manner in which it is used BE a weapon. Most assuredly, Sean Bell was armed that night. Armed with a vehicle. And most likely intoxicated, which makes that vehicle a weapon even moreso. This is not a good argument. "He was armed with a car/pen/bag of skittles". Of course one can perpetrate violent acts with any number of household items. Police have to be better at assessing the actual risk to their own life, and even better at making the decision to use deadly force. This event seems to demonstrate that a poor decision process occured, and resulted in a death. Quote You're not the first poster to be a combat expert. Nice arm chair quarterbacking. I stand by my statement. If you are a person who may use deadly force in the field, you should be comfortable, accurate, and reliable when using it, even in high stress environments. A big component of an officer's job involves confronting people who have been doing something wrong, and correcting that. It's a high risk, high stress job, so yes, I expect them to be able to do all aspects of their job. Quote Thanks for your opinion. I'd love to stay and continue this battle of wits, but unfortunately, you're not equipped. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #60 April 27, 2008 Quote cops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops. Like lawyers, you hate them until you have a need for one. Your assertion that they planned this kill would have a bit more legitimacy if they had a history of using their guns. The undercover guy had never used his. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #61 April 27, 2008 QuoteYou seriously need to wake up and realize that these 3 criminals are not in your category, unless however, you also go to unlawful locations, have prior criminal records for drugs and gun possession, now do you? I think not. You do realize that possession of enough drugs to distribute to the public usually means selling to young children, right? Mr. Liberal, you should realize that 2 of these criminals do not belong on the street where they can cause harm to other people. It's unfortunate that the other criminal was shot dead. Nonetheless, it's one less dangerous criminal off the street. SO Miss Far right wing apologist .......I guess in your world if the police say someone is guilty.. they are guilty unless proved innocent ...in your mind these men are guilty by where they are located??? I suppose you worship at the feet of these narco thugs who had guns and decided to fill the night air of New York with lead because these 3 men had aroused the suspicion of the NYPD Police Gang and were desparately trying to get away from a gang...not even in uniform. What fucking country do you live in again???? Oh that is right.. the far right and their police state have the "Patriot Act" in which everyone is a potential terrorist or evil doer.. if they want to investigate you for anything they want they can take any means they want... and people are guilty because of where they are and what they might say. QuoteThere you go again veering away from the subject at hand. Nonetheless, I will entertain you. So Mr. D license, Mr. 900 jump wonder and Mr. skydiving since 1972, you're basically saying that with proper repetitive training from qualified instructors, regarding emergency procedures, that this sport is not for me? Basically, you are saying everyone that has panicked in situations but survived from cutaways was by sheer stupid luck? Those that did handle themselves well during cutaways are cut from the same mold that you were? Born with dealing well in stressful situations? You are saying it is impossible to develop handling yourself well in emergency situations when you had proper and repetitive training for cutaways? Wow. Thank you. I'm so glad you carved out my short career in skydiving. I'm just going to literally pack it all in. Goodbye ground school. Goodbye AFP. Goodbye dropzone. Mr. Psychic says I won't last so I have to heed his advice. yup 900+ logged jumps... just a beginner and being dissed by a 3 jump tandemn wonder that has yet to be tested... one who does not fill out a profile and then cant read the profiles of those she is personally attacking on a skydiving board...Tell ya what girlie girl.... as agitated as you get in a discussion and your blind support of your gang of cops.... yes... you better get VERY GOOD instruction.. if you wish to continue. I am saying I have lost a lot of good friends over the years.... and the sport is repleat with stories of shit happening and for some reason.. call it luck if you will... the person survived... in similar circumstances to things that have killed my friends. And that is MS. Skydiver to you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #62 April 27, 2008 QuoteTony, if you're referring to other cops and not the cops that we are discussing in this subject, why don't you start another thread? Is it too hard for you start one on your own do you feel that it's necessary to contribute nonconstructive posts to this thread? Nope, I don' think I'll be taking that advice or was a directive? I will start threads or add posts as I see fit, not under the instructions of someone with no name or authority. I believe that these cops did wrong and ended up killing someone who did not deserve to die. If you think otherwise, that's up to you and I could careless. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #63 April 28, 2008 QuoteYou do realize that possession of enough drugs to distribute to the public usually means selling to young children, right? Would you care to back that statement up with any reliable evidence?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #64 April 28, 2008 QuoteI don't see where that is a less intelligent statement as bringing up someone's criminal past. It would seem prejudgemental (sp) to say that these guys were hard core because they did their time for something prior. This was so less intelligent that this was brought up in their court trial. Judgmental? On who's part? Obviously, judge cooperman thought that their past criminal record was enough to prove that those witnesses were not credible. We are human, Aprilcat. There are a few people out there that will not prejudge people by their tainted history and what not. The majority of people in the world will judge others by what they hear in the media, what they hear from other people, etc. There are a few that will actually want to hear both sides of the story. QuoteThe cops can't look at me and tell if I have a previous record and if I just have to be in the wrong car at the wrong time and I get hurt by a cop, does that give him the right to bring up something I did 20 years ago What reason would the cops have to even look your way? sean bell, trent benefield and joseph guzman were very well known criminals in that part of town. Yes, that had a history and yes it was known by most people in that area, especially cops. And it was not 20 years ago. Defense attorney James Culleton brought up the ticklish fact that Guzman was twice convicted of felonies within seven years - the second for selling crack within 1,000 feet of an elementary school. Ricco reminded Guzman of his gunpoint-robbery conviction Read full articleDon't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #65 April 28, 2008 QuoteAre they back in jail? Having a criminal record doesn't take away all of your credibility, just like being a cop doesn't make you infallible. Make your plea with the judge n23x because that's what he based their credibility on. QuotePolice have to be better at assessing the actual risk to their own life, and even better at making the decision to use deadly force. This event seems to demonstrate that a poor decision process occured, and resulted in a death. Again, as per my previous posts, the judge cooperman even acknowledged that the police were not reckless in firing 50 shots to eliminate the threat. Cry out to him. QuoteI stand by my statement. If you are a person who may use deadly force in the field, you should be comfortable, accurate, and reliable when using it, even in high stress environments. A big component of an officer's job involves confronting people who have been doing something wrong, and correcting that. It's a high risk, high stress job, so yes, I expect them to be able to do all aspects of their job. You're too quick to throw your 2 cents in yet you won't take a stand with the people to ensure that this won't happen again. Why don't you rally with al sharpton?Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #66 April 28, 2008 QuoteSO Miss Far right wing apologist .......I guess in your world if the police say someone is guilty.. they are guilty unless proved innocent ...in your mind these men are guilty by where they are located??? I suppose you worship at the feet of these narco thugs who had guns and decided to fill the night air of New York with lead because these 3 men had aroused the suspicion of the NYPD Police Gang and were desparately trying to get away from a gang...not even in uniform. Aroused suspicion? They tried to mow them down with a car? That's not suspicious, that blatantly trying to take someone's life away. Police fired at the car to eliminate a threat. QuoteWhat fucking country do you live in again???? Oh that is right.. the far right and their police state have the "Patriot Act" in which everyone is a potential terrorist or evil doer.. if they want to investigate you for anything they want they can take any means they want... and people are guilty because of where they are and what they might say. Whoa easy there. No need to be vulgar. Face it, we live in a country full of laws to keep us at bay. The courts couldn't prove that the cops actions were reckless. The courts proved that the witnesses were not credible. Take it up with judge cooperman if you're so unhappy with the verdict. Why is it so hard to trust the justice system? Quoteyup 900+ logged jumps... just a beginner and being dissed by a 3 jump tandemn wonder that has yet to be tested... one who does not fill out a profile and then cant read the profiles of those she is personally attacking on a skydiving board... Whoa. What the heck did you have to eat today? Why are you veering off the subject at hand? You tend to do this a lot. Your profile only reads that you are a program manager and you have 900 jumps and you hold a d license. It also list various other details about your equipment and your experience. Why would I be concerned about that stuff anyway? My profile has all the information I able to fill out. It has my first name, last name, city and state where I live in. I can't fill out anything else but 3 jumps. QuoteTell ya what girlie girl.... I am a boyie boy not a girlie girl. Quoteas agitated as you get in a discussion and your blind support of your gang of cops.... yes... you better get VERY GOOD instruction.. if you wish to continue. I'm not agitated. You are free to discuss whatever you want to discuss. I just don't agree with the way you had to pull your number of jumps, your license and how long you've been jumping to this discussion. Are you trying to intimidate me? Honestly, entertain us...how did cops ever do you wrong? Now you're saying that I better get good instruction if I want to continue in this sport. Rather than telling me to hang it up because I'm not calm, cool and collective? Now that is the way a seasoned veteran should preach instead of prejudging and telling someone that this sport is not for them. QuoteI am saying I have lost a lot of good friends over the years.... and the sport is repleat with stories of shit happening and for some reason.. call it luck if you will... the person survived... in similar circumstances to things that have killed my friends. And that is MS. Skydiver to you I am truly sorry for the loss of your friends. However, we all take risks every time we step out the door. What I learned about skydiving is that you take calculated risks. You train over and over again so it's embedded in your head. There are no guarantees in life. From what I heard, you can be right under your parachute and someone can fall right on top of it and on you or your parachute can get blown by the wind and deflate causing you to crash to the ground. Being calm, cool and collective can't help you there. god forbid that happens to you. I apologize but your profile does not indicate that you are a miss. However, my first name does indicate that I am a boyie boy.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #67 April 28, 2008 QuoteIs that your opinion or is that a fact? Opinion. Obviously. QuoteWhat's the basis on which you stated that there are those cops that are loose cannons? Because of beign one of those in the past who loved cops, then hated cops, and now actually view it objectively. Seeing as how I've got numerous friends and family who are cops, most cops see the same thing. Google "consent decree." QuoteAre you referring to this subject regarding sean bell or are you just throwing it out there? I'm throwing it out there to counter the hating on all cops. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #68 April 28, 2008 QuoteNope, I don' think I'll be taking that advice or was a directive? I will start threads or add posts as I see fit, not under the instructions of someone with no name or authority. Hey man, do whatever you want to do. I wasn't giving you a directive or advice. I'm just going by forum guidelines, that's all. I never claimed to have any authority over you. Why are you so defensive? Let it roll of the shoulders mate, that's all. And I do have a name it's been on my profile. Go cry to the mods if you don't see it. QuoteI believe that these cops did wrong and ended up killing someone who did not deserve to die. If you think otherwise, that's up to you and I could careless. Tony, no one deserves to die. No one in this world has a right to take away your life. I was not there that night. I'm not an LEO. I'm not a criminal. I'm not a judge. Basically, I can not relate to anyone in that situation. As an american, I put my trust in the justice system. My personal feelings will not change the world and they will definitely not change the judicial system whether I agree with the verdict or not. The law is the law and the prosecutors could not prove that the cops broke any law. The judge proved that the witnesses were not credible. The judge is an authority in the judicial system. Therefore, I respect his decision.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #69 April 28, 2008 QuoteWould you care to back that statement up with any reliable evidence? Hmmm...I don't know...here's one from a previous post of mine. Maybe that's reliable evidence for you. Defense attorney James Culleton brought up the ticklish fact that Guzman was twice convicted of felonies within seven years - the second for selling crack within 1,000 feet of an elementary school. Ricco reminded Guzman of his gunpoint-robbery conviction Read full articleDon't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #70 April 28, 2008 Quote Whoa. What the heck did you have to eat today? Why are you veering off the subject at hand? You tend to do this a lot. Probably because you posted THIS earlier in the thread. Quote I'm so amazed at how many combat qualified individuals that post here can actually say that they would react differently. You all should seriously sign up and employ yourselves as field trainers for all LEOs. They are obviously in desperate need of your help. Please hurry and sign up. I am not combat qualified. I am not calm, cool and collective under life threatening situations. I would have probably have frozen and got mowed down if a speeding car came at me possibly firing shots at me. At least I can admit that I wouldn't know how I would react in that situation if it was presented to me rather than replaying the scene and arm chair quarterbacking this situation. AS I said before.... that is not a good starting place for having to deal with things that WILL happen in this sport...... not IF.....WHEN Back to the thread now.... IT has become painfully obvious that you will give this gang of undercover cops a complete pass... Hopefully thier peers behind the BLUE WALL will not. These are out of control cowboys... and I for one do NOT want fucknuggets like this PROTECTING AND SERVING me in any way shape or form. They set themselves up as prosecuter judge and executioner. Perhaps ALL the men that go to tittie bars for their bachelor parties deserve the same in your eyes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #71 April 28, 2008 Nuff said. It's admirable that you are straight forward and honest.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #72 April 28, 2008 You're spending way too much time Monday morning quarterbacking, which I believe you accused someone else of earlier in this thread. To bring up Judge Cooperman's remarks on the 'witnesses' is a little too late as far as I'm concerned. You obviously don't live in a big city; certainly not NYC. After 9/11 there was a desperate need for police recruits and with gentrification going on all over the city, 'Justice for All' became 'Everybody off the Strets'. you can sell liquor to patrons, cops and priests till 4 am but how do these people get home??? I'm going to ignore that you're so gung ho that the cops fel there was a threat against them by a passenger in the backseat and a 'reputation' of these young men in the neighborhood (how would the rookie shooter know that and just 'know' he had a gun and aim it at the cops? He wasn't a 'cop killer'..' Nevertheless. ...lets get back to the title of the thread. There is no 'outrage'. The city is hurting, but this is not the jungle. There are more undercover cops in these marches than church goers and agnostic tax payers (Sharptons target audience and the media frenzy is just ridiculous. What happened to the men in the car is tragic, I will not deny it and I do believe them innocent and just trying to get home. If the club in question practiced prostitution and sold illegal drugs, pull their liquor license. Pull their Dancing license. Where are the freaking protocols??? I could run this city better than its been running and I don't believe in the word 'alleged'. you did it or I thought you did it and if I'm in control you're closed. How about search warrants for the business in question and not bothering the patrons? How about going in and searching the place instead of going in on early Sunday morning and blocking off the driveway? (Question..when you party with your friends does your CD player come on (or the radio?) can you hear someone say 'police, pull over?) Its bullshit..we know its hunting season and the summer is just going to get worse because we don't have well trained police (I DID laugh at the thought of having a bag of skittles can have you shot 51 times...true..I'm scared to pull out my wallet now). But who is truly the arm chair quarterback. You are defending whole heartedly something you don't know anything about. My point is the city is not in 'outrage'. We're trying to understand. Understanding goes both ways.~~~April Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #73 April 28, 2008 QuoteIT has become painfully obvious that you will give this gang of undercover cops a complete pass... I didn't give them a complete pass. The credibility of the witnesses and judge cooperman did. I respect the justice system. QuotePerhaps ALL the men that go to tittie bars for their bachelor parties deserve the same in your eyes. Why would they? I go to titty bars all the time. However, I wouldn't go to one that I knew was an unlawful titty bar. There are even black people that thought this criminals were bad apples. Even a black person said "What were they doing in a shady night club?" Like I said, no one deserves to die. No one has the right to kill another person because that person wears a badge and carries a gun. Judge cooperman did not find the cops actions were reckless in any manner. He is a respectable judge with decades of experience trying criminal cases. I wasn't there that night. I'm not a criminal. I'm not a LEO. I'm not a judge. I'm not a lawyer. I respect the judge's decision because I respect the american judicial system.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites friendstersux 0 #74 April 28, 2008 QuoteYou are defending whole heartedly something you don't know anything about. April, I don't live in a big city. I don't know anything about NY or cops. If your city is hiring unqualified cops, go to your town hall and complain about it. Join in al sharpton's rally. You hold so much conviction over cops this and that, then do something about it. Let's be honest here, you're not going to change the world, you won't change the verdict, you won't change what happened that night. There are even black people that thought this criminals were bad apples. Even a black person said "What were they doing in a shady night club?" Read the blog. Open the picture file. I've already posted this in a previous reply to you. I have yet to hear what you have to say about it. I have yet to hear what you all have to say about it. Just what I figured....no comment. Here's a excerpt from the blog: Shit like this is why reparations will NEVER be a real political issue. There are just too many coons out there ready to act the damn fool for that second of shine. This also raises the question of what exactly where these dudes doing in a shady strip club that night. I still think the NYPD officers involved fucked the fuck up and deserve serious prison time for what they did, but Sean Bell and everyone in the car all had real criminal records (I'm not talking about jaywalking) and shit like this makes it seem like profiling only happens to "bad" black people. When Trent Benefield is the face of your tragedy it makes it harder to unify your cry for racial justice. For calling out your coon status and shedding light on the many social issues this case brings up, Trent Benefield is the Snitch of the Week. It's over for black people. Read the blog Again, I respect the judge's decision. I respect the american justice system. Even a black CNN legal analyst for CNN stood by the judges verdict having had prior court experience as a prosecutor. Watch video titled: Analyzing the bell verdictDon't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #75 April 28, 2008 QuoteQuoteWould you care to back that statement up with any reliable evidence? Hmmm...I don't know...here's one from a previous post of mine. Maybe that's reliable evidence for you. Defense attorney James Culleton brought up the ticklish fact that Guzman was twice convicted of felonies within seven years - the second for selling crack within 1,000 feet of an elementary school. Have you given any thought to what proportion of New York City is within a 1000' radius of an elementary school? In urban areas, such laws serve little purpose but to give the DA the ability to tag on an extra charge. Being within 1000' of an elementary school, in and of itself, offers zero indication that there was any intent to sell anything to students.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 3 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
aprilcat 0 #57 April 27, 2008 QuoteQuotecops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops. Wow, that's pretty intelligent of you to add that. Thank you. We are all enlightened by such words of wisdom. I bet you and most of the other cop haters here, whom become victims of a crime(s), will be one of the first people to call the cops. I don't see where that is a less intelligent statement as bringing up someone's criminal past. It would seem prejudgemental (sp) to say that these guys were hard core because they did their time for something prior. The cops can't look at me and tell if I have a previous record and if I just have to be in the wrong car at the wrong time and I get hurt by a cop, does that give him the right to bring up something I did 20 years ago (no, I did nothing 20 years ago, but I'm using speculation, which a lot of is going on here)~~April Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #58 April 27, 2008 "We still have a death that occurred. We still have police officers that have to live with the fact that there was a death involved in their case," Lynch said. A kill is a feather in their cap, make no mistake about that. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #59 April 27, 2008 Quote That statement was made by 2 known felons with serious criminal records regarding police officers not identifying themselves. I guess you chose to believe their side of the story. Are they back in jail? Having a criminal record doesn't take away all of your credibility, just like being a cop doesn't make you infallible. Quote If I take a pen from my pocket, and jam it into your eye and blind you. I am guilty of assault. I was armed with a pen. An object that is not traditionally viewed as a weapon, can in fact, by virtue of the manner in which it is used BE a weapon. Most assuredly, Sean Bell was armed that night. Armed with a vehicle. And most likely intoxicated, which makes that vehicle a weapon even moreso. This is not a good argument. "He was armed with a car/pen/bag of skittles". Of course one can perpetrate violent acts with any number of household items. Police have to be better at assessing the actual risk to their own life, and even better at making the decision to use deadly force. This event seems to demonstrate that a poor decision process occured, and resulted in a death. Quote You're not the first poster to be a combat expert. Nice arm chair quarterbacking. I stand by my statement. If you are a person who may use deadly force in the field, you should be comfortable, accurate, and reliable when using it, even in high stress environments. A big component of an officer's job involves confronting people who have been doing something wrong, and correcting that. It's a high risk, high stress job, so yes, I expect them to be able to do all aspects of their job. Quote Thanks for your opinion. I'd love to stay and continue this battle of wits, but unfortunately, you're not equipped. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #60 April 27, 2008 Quote cops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops. Like lawyers, you hate them until you have a need for one. Your assertion that they planned this kill would have a bit more legitimacy if they had a history of using their guns. The undercover guy had never used his. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #61 April 27, 2008 QuoteYou seriously need to wake up and realize that these 3 criminals are not in your category, unless however, you also go to unlawful locations, have prior criminal records for drugs and gun possession, now do you? I think not. You do realize that possession of enough drugs to distribute to the public usually means selling to young children, right? Mr. Liberal, you should realize that 2 of these criminals do not belong on the street where they can cause harm to other people. It's unfortunate that the other criminal was shot dead. Nonetheless, it's one less dangerous criminal off the street. SO Miss Far right wing apologist .......I guess in your world if the police say someone is guilty.. they are guilty unless proved innocent ...in your mind these men are guilty by where they are located??? I suppose you worship at the feet of these narco thugs who had guns and decided to fill the night air of New York with lead because these 3 men had aroused the suspicion of the NYPD Police Gang and were desparately trying to get away from a gang...not even in uniform. What fucking country do you live in again???? Oh that is right.. the far right and their police state have the "Patriot Act" in which everyone is a potential terrorist or evil doer.. if they want to investigate you for anything they want they can take any means they want... and people are guilty because of where they are and what they might say. QuoteThere you go again veering away from the subject at hand. Nonetheless, I will entertain you. So Mr. D license, Mr. 900 jump wonder and Mr. skydiving since 1972, you're basically saying that with proper repetitive training from qualified instructors, regarding emergency procedures, that this sport is not for me? Basically, you are saying everyone that has panicked in situations but survived from cutaways was by sheer stupid luck? Those that did handle themselves well during cutaways are cut from the same mold that you were? Born with dealing well in stressful situations? You are saying it is impossible to develop handling yourself well in emergency situations when you had proper and repetitive training for cutaways? Wow. Thank you. I'm so glad you carved out my short career in skydiving. I'm just going to literally pack it all in. Goodbye ground school. Goodbye AFP. Goodbye dropzone. Mr. Psychic says I won't last so I have to heed his advice. yup 900+ logged jumps... just a beginner and being dissed by a 3 jump tandemn wonder that has yet to be tested... one who does not fill out a profile and then cant read the profiles of those she is personally attacking on a skydiving board...Tell ya what girlie girl.... as agitated as you get in a discussion and your blind support of your gang of cops.... yes... you better get VERY GOOD instruction.. if you wish to continue. I am saying I have lost a lot of good friends over the years.... and the sport is repleat with stories of shit happening and for some reason.. call it luck if you will... the person survived... in similar circumstances to things that have killed my friends. And that is MS. Skydiver to you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #62 April 27, 2008 QuoteTony, if you're referring to other cops and not the cops that we are discussing in this subject, why don't you start another thread? Is it too hard for you start one on your own do you feel that it's necessary to contribute nonconstructive posts to this thread? Nope, I don' think I'll be taking that advice or was a directive? I will start threads or add posts as I see fit, not under the instructions of someone with no name or authority. I believe that these cops did wrong and ended up killing someone who did not deserve to die. If you think otherwise, that's up to you and I could careless. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #63 April 28, 2008 QuoteYou do realize that possession of enough drugs to distribute to the public usually means selling to young children, right? Would you care to back that statement up with any reliable evidence?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #64 April 28, 2008 QuoteI don't see where that is a less intelligent statement as bringing up someone's criminal past. It would seem prejudgemental (sp) to say that these guys were hard core because they did their time for something prior. This was so less intelligent that this was brought up in their court trial. Judgmental? On who's part? Obviously, judge cooperman thought that their past criminal record was enough to prove that those witnesses were not credible. We are human, Aprilcat. There are a few people out there that will not prejudge people by their tainted history and what not. The majority of people in the world will judge others by what they hear in the media, what they hear from other people, etc. There are a few that will actually want to hear both sides of the story. QuoteThe cops can't look at me and tell if I have a previous record and if I just have to be in the wrong car at the wrong time and I get hurt by a cop, does that give him the right to bring up something I did 20 years ago What reason would the cops have to even look your way? sean bell, trent benefield and joseph guzman were very well known criminals in that part of town. Yes, that had a history and yes it was known by most people in that area, especially cops. And it was not 20 years ago. Defense attorney James Culleton brought up the ticklish fact that Guzman was twice convicted of felonies within seven years - the second for selling crack within 1,000 feet of an elementary school. Ricco reminded Guzman of his gunpoint-robbery conviction Read full articleDon't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #65 April 28, 2008 QuoteAre they back in jail? Having a criminal record doesn't take away all of your credibility, just like being a cop doesn't make you infallible. Make your plea with the judge n23x because that's what he based their credibility on. QuotePolice have to be better at assessing the actual risk to their own life, and even better at making the decision to use deadly force. This event seems to demonstrate that a poor decision process occured, and resulted in a death. Again, as per my previous posts, the judge cooperman even acknowledged that the police were not reckless in firing 50 shots to eliminate the threat. Cry out to him. QuoteI stand by my statement. If you are a person who may use deadly force in the field, you should be comfortable, accurate, and reliable when using it, even in high stress environments. A big component of an officer's job involves confronting people who have been doing something wrong, and correcting that. It's a high risk, high stress job, so yes, I expect them to be able to do all aspects of their job. You're too quick to throw your 2 cents in yet you won't take a stand with the people to ensure that this won't happen again. Why don't you rally with al sharpton?Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #66 April 28, 2008 QuoteSO Miss Far right wing apologist .......I guess in your world if the police say someone is guilty.. they are guilty unless proved innocent ...in your mind these men are guilty by where they are located??? I suppose you worship at the feet of these narco thugs who had guns and decided to fill the night air of New York with lead because these 3 men had aroused the suspicion of the NYPD Police Gang and were desparately trying to get away from a gang...not even in uniform. Aroused suspicion? They tried to mow them down with a car? That's not suspicious, that blatantly trying to take someone's life away. Police fired at the car to eliminate a threat. QuoteWhat fucking country do you live in again???? Oh that is right.. the far right and their police state have the "Patriot Act" in which everyone is a potential terrorist or evil doer.. if they want to investigate you for anything they want they can take any means they want... and people are guilty because of where they are and what they might say. Whoa easy there. No need to be vulgar. Face it, we live in a country full of laws to keep us at bay. The courts couldn't prove that the cops actions were reckless. The courts proved that the witnesses were not credible. Take it up with judge cooperman if you're so unhappy with the verdict. Why is it so hard to trust the justice system? Quoteyup 900+ logged jumps... just a beginner and being dissed by a 3 jump tandemn wonder that has yet to be tested... one who does not fill out a profile and then cant read the profiles of those she is personally attacking on a skydiving board... Whoa. What the heck did you have to eat today? Why are you veering off the subject at hand? You tend to do this a lot. Your profile only reads that you are a program manager and you have 900 jumps and you hold a d license. It also list various other details about your equipment and your experience. Why would I be concerned about that stuff anyway? My profile has all the information I able to fill out. It has my first name, last name, city and state where I live in. I can't fill out anything else but 3 jumps. QuoteTell ya what girlie girl.... I am a boyie boy not a girlie girl. Quoteas agitated as you get in a discussion and your blind support of your gang of cops.... yes... you better get VERY GOOD instruction.. if you wish to continue. I'm not agitated. You are free to discuss whatever you want to discuss. I just don't agree with the way you had to pull your number of jumps, your license and how long you've been jumping to this discussion. Are you trying to intimidate me? Honestly, entertain us...how did cops ever do you wrong? Now you're saying that I better get good instruction if I want to continue in this sport. Rather than telling me to hang it up because I'm not calm, cool and collective? Now that is the way a seasoned veteran should preach instead of prejudging and telling someone that this sport is not for them. QuoteI am saying I have lost a lot of good friends over the years.... and the sport is repleat with stories of shit happening and for some reason.. call it luck if you will... the person survived... in similar circumstances to things that have killed my friends. And that is MS. Skydiver to you I am truly sorry for the loss of your friends. However, we all take risks every time we step out the door. What I learned about skydiving is that you take calculated risks. You train over and over again so it's embedded in your head. There are no guarantees in life. From what I heard, you can be right under your parachute and someone can fall right on top of it and on you or your parachute can get blown by the wind and deflate causing you to crash to the ground. Being calm, cool and collective can't help you there. god forbid that happens to you. I apologize but your profile does not indicate that you are a miss. However, my first name does indicate that I am a boyie boy.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #67 April 28, 2008 QuoteIs that your opinion or is that a fact? Opinion. Obviously. QuoteWhat's the basis on which you stated that there are those cops that are loose cannons? Because of beign one of those in the past who loved cops, then hated cops, and now actually view it objectively. Seeing as how I've got numerous friends and family who are cops, most cops see the same thing. Google "consent decree." QuoteAre you referring to this subject regarding sean bell or are you just throwing it out there? I'm throwing it out there to counter the hating on all cops. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #68 April 28, 2008 QuoteNope, I don' think I'll be taking that advice or was a directive? I will start threads or add posts as I see fit, not under the instructions of someone with no name or authority. Hey man, do whatever you want to do. I wasn't giving you a directive or advice. I'm just going by forum guidelines, that's all. I never claimed to have any authority over you. Why are you so defensive? Let it roll of the shoulders mate, that's all. And I do have a name it's been on my profile. Go cry to the mods if you don't see it. QuoteI believe that these cops did wrong and ended up killing someone who did not deserve to die. If you think otherwise, that's up to you and I could careless. Tony, no one deserves to die. No one in this world has a right to take away your life. I was not there that night. I'm not an LEO. I'm not a criminal. I'm not a judge. Basically, I can not relate to anyone in that situation. As an american, I put my trust in the justice system. My personal feelings will not change the world and they will definitely not change the judicial system whether I agree with the verdict or not. The law is the law and the prosecutors could not prove that the cops broke any law. The judge proved that the witnesses were not credible. The judge is an authority in the judicial system. Therefore, I respect his decision.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #69 April 28, 2008 QuoteWould you care to back that statement up with any reliable evidence? Hmmm...I don't know...here's one from a previous post of mine. Maybe that's reliable evidence for you. Defense attorney James Culleton brought up the ticklish fact that Guzman was twice convicted of felonies within seven years - the second for selling crack within 1,000 feet of an elementary school. Ricco reminded Guzman of his gunpoint-robbery conviction Read full articleDon't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #70 April 28, 2008 Quote Whoa. What the heck did you have to eat today? Why are you veering off the subject at hand? You tend to do this a lot. Probably because you posted THIS earlier in the thread. Quote I'm so amazed at how many combat qualified individuals that post here can actually say that they would react differently. You all should seriously sign up and employ yourselves as field trainers for all LEOs. They are obviously in desperate need of your help. Please hurry and sign up. I am not combat qualified. I am not calm, cool and collective under life threatening situations. I would have probably have frozen and got mowed down if a speeding car came at me possibly firing shots at me. At least I can admit that I wouldn't know how I would react in that situation if it was presented to me rather than replaying the scene and arm chair quarterbacking this situation. AS I said before.... that is not a good starting place for having to deal with things that WILL happen in this sport...... not IF.....WHEN Back to the thread now.... IT has become painfully obvious that you will give this gang of undercover cops a complete pass... Hopefully thier peers behind the BLUE WALL will not. These are out of control cowboys... and I for one do NOT want fucknuggets like this PROTECTING AND SERVING me in any way shape or form. They set themselves up as prosecuter judge and executioner. Perhaps ALL the men that go to tittie bars for their bachelor parties deserve the same in your eyes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #71 April 28, 2008 Nuff said. It's admirable that you are straight forward and honest.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aprilcat 0 #72 April 28, 2008 You're spending way too much time Monday morning quarterbacking, which I believe you accused someone else of earlier in this thread. To bring up Judge Cooperman's remarks on the 'witnesses' is a little too late as far as I'm concerned. You obviously don't live in a big city; certainly not NYC. After 9/11 there was a desperate need for police recruits and with gentrification going on all over the city, 'Justice for All' became 'Everybody off the Strets'. you can sell liquor to patrons, cops and priests till 4 am but how do these people get home??? I'm going to ignore that you're so gung ho that the cops fel there was a threat against them by a passenger in the backseat and a 'reputation' of these young men in the neighborhood (how would the rookie shooter know that and just 'know' he had a gun and aim it at the cops? He wasn't a 'cop killer'..' Nevertheless. ...lets get back to the title of the thread. There is no 'outrage'. The city is hurting, but this is not the jungle. There are more undercover cops in these marches than church goers and agnostic tax payers (Sharptons target audience and the media frenzy is just ridiculous. What happened to the men in the car is tragic, I will not deny it and I do believe them innocent and just trying to get home. If the club in question practiced prostitution and sold illegal drugs, pull their liquor license. Pull their Dancing license. Where are the freaking protocols??? I could run this city better than its been running and I don't believe in the word 'alleged'. you did it or I thought you did it and if I'm in control you're closed. How about search warrants for the business in question and not bothering the patrons? How about going in and searching the place instead of going in on early Sunday morning and blocking off the driveway? (Question..when you party with your friends does your CD player come on (or the radio?) can you hear someone say 'police, pull over?) Its bullshit..we know its hunting season and the summer is just going to get worse because we don't have well trained police (I DID laugh at the thought of having a bag of skittles can have you shot 51 times...true..I'm scared to pull out my wallet now). But who is truly the arm chair quarterback. You are defending whole heartedly something you don't know anything about. My point is the city is not in 'outrage'. We're trying to understand. Understanding goes both ways.~~~April Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #73 April 28, 2008 QuoteIT has become painfully obvious that you will give this gang of undercover cops a complete pass... I didn't give them a complete pass. The credibility of the witnesses and judge cooperman did. I respect the justice system. QuotePerhaps ALL the men that go to tittie bars for their bachelor parties deserve the same in your eyes. Why would they? I go to titty bars all the time. However, I wouldn't go to one that I knew was an unlawful titty bar. There are even black people that thought this criminals were bad apples. Even a black person said "What were they doing in a shady night club?" Like I said, no one deserves to die. No one has the right to kill another person because that person wears a badge and carries a gun. Judge cooperman did not find the cops actions were reckless in any manner. He is a respectable judge with decades of experience trying criminal cases. I wasn't there that night. I'm not a criminal. I'm not a LEO. I'm not a judge. I'm not a lawyer. I respect the judge's decision because I respect the american judicial system.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #74 April 28, 2008 QuoteYou are defending whole heartedly something you don't know anything about. April, I don't live in a big city. I don't know anything about NY or cops. If your city is hiring unqualified cops, go to your town hall and complain about it. Join in al sharpton's rally. You hold so much conviction over cops this and that, then do something about it. Let's be honest here, you're not going to change the world, you won't change the verdict, you won't change what happened that night. There are even black people that thought this criminals were bad apples. Even a black person said "What were they doing in a shady night club?" Read the blog. Open the picture file. I've already posted this in a previous reply to you. I have yet to hear what you have to say about it. I have yet to hear what you all have to say about it. Just what I figured....no comment. Here's a excerpt from the blog: Shit like this is why reparations will NEVER be a real political issue. There are just too many coons out there ready to act the damn fool for that second of shine. This also raises the question of what exactly where these dudes doing in a shady strip club that night. I still think the NYPD officers involved fucked the fuck up and deserve serious prison time for what they did, but Sean Bell and everyone in the car all had real criminal records (I'm not talking about jaywalking) and shit like this makes it seem like profiling only happens to "bad" black people. When Trent Benefield is the face of your tragedy it makes it harder to unify your cry for racial justice. For calling out your coon status and shedding light on the many social issues this case brings up, Trent Benefield is the Snitch of the Week. It's over for black people. Read the blog Again, I respect the judge's decision. I respect the american justice system. Even a black CNN legal analyst for CNN stood by the judges verdict having had prior court experience as a prosecutor. Watch video titled: Analyzing the bell verdictDon't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #75 April 28, 2008 QuoteQuoteWould you care to back that statement up with any reliable evidence? Hmmm...I don't know...here's one from a previous post of mine. Maybe that's reliable evidence for you. Defense attorney James Culleton brought up the ticklish fact that Guzman was twice convicted of felonies within seven years - the second for selling crack within 1,000 feet of an elementary school. Have you given any thought to what proportion of New York City is within a 1000' radius of an elementary school? In urban areas, such laws serve little purpose but to give the DA the ability to tag on an extra charge. Being within 1000' of an elementary school, in and of itself, offers zero indication that there was any intent to sell anything to students.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
