kallend 1,623 #1 February 29, 2008 www.suntimes.com/business/819906,boeing022908.article... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 February 29, 2008 As bad as this may seem to the US economy, the local economy around Mobile, AL is going to benefit big time. With Mercedes Benz, Honda, Hyundai all having huge auto plants across the state of Alabama and Thyssen-Krupp steel building a giant plant north of Mobile, things are looking great job-wise here."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #3 February 29, 2008 With a bit of effort I'd be surprised if there wasn't 'a conflict of interest' to be found in this deal - or anything similiar. Way of the world. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 March 1, 2008 Well, with Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions on the Armed Services Committee, it's unlikely he would want this to go under review, since the final assembly point will be Mobile, AL. However, Sen. McCain is the ranking member, and this is not going to bode well for his campaign if he doesn't look into it. It doesn't look good for Sen. Clinton either, as she's on the committee. So, in the end, the Senate has the final say, and I'm betting in this election year, they will definitely have to face the issue.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rapter 0 #5 March 1, 2008 Built in France, assembled in Georgia, they will hire about 2000 people for the work. So after there done building Tankers what next ? "US" built Airbus for the market? Watch the Euro climb some more. I guess my 401 at Boeing will take a hit come Monday. Only the good die young, so I have found immortality, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #6 March 1, 2008 As a former soldier, former aircrew member on one of the boeing airframes and current contractor I say economy be damned if it is the best aircraft for the job. as far as I know 'Keeping Tom, Dick and Harry American' employed has never been a systems engineering requirement... anything that detracts from the needs of the force and the soldier needs to be sidelined.. (which is why I'll never be a politician)____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #7 March 1, 2008 QuoteAs a former soldier, former aircrew member on one of the boeing airframes and current contractor I say economy be damned if it is the best aircraft for the job. as far as I know 'Keeping Tom, Dick and Harry American' employed has never been a systems engineering requirement... anything that detracts from the needs of the force and the soldier needs to be sidelined.. (which is why I'll never be a politician) The US doesn't NEED to spend 50% of the entire world's military budget on defense. The only reason I can see that the US does this is to keep defense contractors fat and happy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #8 March 1, 2008 QuoteAs a former soldier, former aircrew member on one of the boeing airframes and current contractor I say economy be damned if it is the best aircraft for the job. as far as I know 'Keeping Tom, Dick and Harry American' employed has never been a systems engineering requirement... anything that detracts from the needs of the force and the soldier needs to be sidelined.. (which is why I'll never be a politician) Personally I think outsourcing ANY of our defence needs is a very very bad thing. If a Soldier Sailor Airman or Marine uses it.. it needs to have a very large MADE IN THE USA on it.. period and it needs to be made by Amerricans.... ALL of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #9 March 1, 2008 While EADS happens to be a European company, this contract is going to a US based plant staffed by American workers doing most of the work."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 March 1, 2008 No Billy it is not... The parts are built in Europe.. and assembled in Europe's version of the third world outsourcing to an area that has the lowest wages in the USA. All they are doing is final assembly in Alabama. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #11 March 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteAs a former soldier, former aircrew member on one of the boeing airframes and current contractor I say economy be damned if it is the best aircraft for the job. as far as I know 'Keeping Tom, Dick and Harry American' employed has never been a systems engineering requirement... anything that detracts from the needs of the force and the soldier needs to be sidelined.. (which is why I'll never be a politician) Personally I think outsourcing ANY of our defence needs is a very very bad thing. If a Soldier Sailor Airman or Marine uses it.. it needs to have a very large MADE IN THE USA on it.. period and it needs to be made by Amerricans.... ALL of it. not if we dont make the best product to fit the need. Patriotism is fine, but it shouldnt dictate engineering standards or system requirements. I dont care where it is made, I care how well it works.. my favorite firearms are H&K for exactly that reason.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #12 March 1, 2008 Quotenot if we dont make the best product to fit the need. Patriotism is fine, but it shouldnt dictate engineering standards or system requirements. I really think that given equal footing.. American products can and are the best in the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #13 March 1, 2008 QuoteQuotenot if we dont make the best product to fit the need. Patriotism is fine, but it shouldnt dictate engineering standards or system requirements. I really think that given equal footing.. American products can and are the best in the world. Assuming they are still made. There has been a deliberate push by corporations, assisted by the government, to move production of as many manufactured products as possible offshore, to the detriment of US workers, the advantage of the stockholders, and the dismay of shoppers looking for "Made in the USA" in Wal-Mart. The Bush administration praised outsourcing as good for us. (Report of Economic Advisors, 2004).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #14 March 1, 2008 QuoteNo Billy it is not... The parts are built in Europe.. and assembled in Europe's version of the third world outsourcing to an area that has the lowest wages in the USA. All they are doing is final assembly in Alabama. Okay, I'll give you that. But don't the parts have to pass the military's standards of quality? Whatever that is... I would think they are pretty stringent..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #15 March 1, 2008 QuoteOkay, I'll give you that. But don't the parts have to pass the military's standards of quality? Whatever that is... I would think they are pretty stringent... And what happens to the supply chain the next time we get in a snit over something vital to OUR national security and not in the best interest of the French????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #16 March 1, 2008 QuoteQuotenot if we dont make the best product to fit the need. Patriotism is fine, but it shouldnt dictate engineering standards or system requirements. I really think that given equal footing.. American products can and are the best in the world. Engineering and performance criteria know no boundaries. Ive worked with more than one system that was chosen more for political reasons than performance and system requirements. Based on available evidence so far, this does not appear to be one of them. Boeing's product was outclassed. If we want the best equipment to be made in America, then we have to accept the cost of doing so... Fast, Right, Cheap fails if you always chose Fast and Cheap.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 March 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteAs a former soldier, former aircrew member on one of the boeing airframes and current contractor I say economy be damned if it is the best aircraft for the job. as far as I know 'Keeping Tom, Dick and Harry American' employed has never been a systems engineering requirement... anything that detracts from the needs of the force and the soldier needs to be sidelined.. (which is why I'll never be a politician) The US doesn't NEED to spend 50% of the entire world's military budget on defense. The only reason I can see that the US does this is to keep defense contractors fat and happy. You didn't seem to have a problem with it when your son was gearing up to go.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 March 1, 2008 Quote Ive worked with more than one system that was chosen more for political reasons than performance and system requirements. Ah, you've worked on the Stryker project, huh? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton2 0 #19 March 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteOkay, I'll give you that. But don't the parts have to pass the military's standards of quality? Whatever that is... I would think they are pretty stringent... And what happens to the supply chain the next time we get in a snit over something vital to OUR national security and not in the best interest of the French????? Wake up, aerospace is world industrie. even JSF parts come from the netherlands, england, norway, france and even turkey. Yes according to and compliant with your military standards. They are not more hard to meet than regular aerospace standardsUsing your droque to gain stability is a bad habid. . . Also in case you jump a sport rig!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #20 March 1, 2008 Quote The US doesn't NEED to spend 50% of the entire world's military budget on defense. The only reason I can see that the US does this is to keep defense contractors fat and happy. I wont argue over total force needs, but the US clearly NEEDS a tanker replacement.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSecret 0 #21 March 1, 2008 Every time I see a story like this it reminds me of one of my favorite movies The Pentagon Wars. Great, great movie about the long 14 billion dollar development of the Bradley fighting vehicle. Ever time I see a Bradley I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. (Lines from the movie) Col. Robert Laurel Smith: In summation, what you have before you is... Sgt. Fanning: A troop transport that can't carry troops, a reconnaissance vehicle that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance... Lt. Colonel James Burton: And a quasi-tank that has less armor than a snow-blower, but carries enough ammo to take out half of D.C. THIS is what we're building? Col. Robert Laurel Smith: That's one hell of a cannon. Jones: That's the problem. Col. Robert Laurel Smith: What is? Jones: You go out on the battlefield with this pecker sticking out of your turret, and the enemy's going to unload on you with everything they got. Might as well put a big red bullseye on the side. Col. Robert Laurel Smith: But it's a troop carrier, not a tank. Jones: Do you want me to put a sign on it in fifty languages, "I am a troop carrier, not a tank. Please don't shoot at me?"Life is good Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #22 March 1, 2008 QuoteIf a Soldier Sailor Airman or Marine uses it.. it needs to have a very large MADE IN THE USA on it.. period and it needs to be made by Amerricans.... ALL of it. That may be great in theory... but if every country took that stance, your defence companies would never sell anything abroad... that wouldn't be good (for anyone). (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #23 March 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteNo Billy it is not... The parts are built in Europe.. and assembled in Europe's version of the third world outsourcing to an area that has the lowest wages in the USA. All they are doing is final assembly in Alabama. Okay, I'll give you that. But don't the parts have to pass the military's standards of quality? Whatever that is... I would think they are pretty stringent... EADS' supply chain management is horrific. They are losing orders for A380s because they are so far behind in production. In the end, I don't think it will matter. The USAF awarded the contract, but it still has to pass muster with Congress, and given the election, I don't see how the Senate will permit that...if enough people write their Congressmen and point out this decision.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #24 March 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteAs a former soldier, former aircrew member on one of the boeing airframes and current contractor I say economy be damned if it is the best aircraft for the job. as far as I know 'Keeping Tom, Dick and Harry American' employed has never been a systems engineering requirement... anything that detracts from the needs of the force and the soldier needs to be sidelined.. (which is why I'll never be a politician) The US doesn't NEED to spend 50% of the entire world's military budget on defense. The only reason I can see that the US does this is to keep defense contractors fat and happy. You didn't seem to have a problem with it when your son was gearing up to go. Yes I did. Humvee armor comes pretty cheap compared with an extra B2 or a destabilizing missile defense system.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #25 March 1, 2008 Quote Quote Ive worked with more than one system that was chosen more for political reasons than performance and system requirements. Ah, you've worked on the Stryker project, huh? My son was in the unit that did the initial field testing... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
