Tanker contract goes to EADS

[BillyVance 34]

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Too bad GAO has no power to force the airforce to comply. Only congress can do that.

Yeah, who knows, we might see some fistfights in Congress between the Alabama and Washington state senators...

I wouldn't be surprised, considering Alabama's own state legislature has seen fistfights during sessions, even as recently as last year. The Bishop vs Barron rumble made the news then.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kallend 1,625]

Seems that Boeing is now threatening to pull out unless it is given even more time to prepare its bid.

voices.washingtonpost.com/government-inc/2008/08/boeing_more_time_or_else.html

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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Seems that Boeing is now threatening to pull out unless it is given even more time to prepare its bid.

voices.washingtonpost.com/government-inc/2008/08/boeing_more_time_or_else.html

That's not a very good idea....they've had two golden opportunities to overcome the antics a few years ago, now they want to squander it? I find it difficult to believe that out of the 160,000 employees they can't squeeze a few engineers together to draw up a plan for a 777 tanker...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Rookie120 0]

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I find it difficult to believe that out of the 160,000 employees they can't squeeze a few engineers together to draw up a plan for a 777 tanker...

Maybe they are lookin in to see if the 787 can do the job and come up with a new idea. The 787-9 will have more lift and range than the 767. Who knows whats going on. I would like to see the plane built in Washington instead of France. We could use the jobs in this country instead of shipping more over the pond.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Gawain 0]

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I find it difficult to believe that out of the 160,000 employees they can't squeeze a few engineers together to draw up a plan for a 777 tanker...

Maybe they are lookin in to see if the 787 can do the job and come up with a new idea. The 787-9 will have more lift and range than the 767. Who knows whats going on. I would like to see the plane built in Washington instead of France. We could use the jobs in this country instead of shipping more over the pond.

Agree, however, Boeing is now on their third attempt to win this contract. The first being the scandalous lease agreement, the second being the USAF panic to appear fair, and sending the contract to EADS. Now, DoD is overseeing it, and SecDef Gates has said the end of the year. Boeing needs to impress some people and take advantage of the opportunity, it may not come again.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Rookie120 0]

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The first being the scandalous lease agreement,

True, that guys in jail now if I remember correctly.

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the second being the USAF panic to appear fair, and sending the contract to EADS.

The AF also changed what they were asking for. First they asked for a plane the size of the 767 with the same MTOW as the 767 then 3/4 into the game they changed the plans.

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Now, DoD is overseeing it, and SecDef Gates has said the end of the year. Boeing needs to impress some people and take advantage of the opportunity,

That is what has me thinking they might be throwing together a 787 plan. That might get the attention of the AF.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Gawain 0]

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That is what has me thinking they might be throwing together a 787 plan. That might get the attention of the AF.

All the press seems to be talking about a 777 platform in lieu of the 767 that they originally bid.

Even if they're considering a 787 platform, DoD made it clear: end of the year.

The 777 is a heavier aircraft, more capacity.

Given that, if I'm CEO McNerney, Jr., I'm grabbing the pick of the litter from the relevant departments within Boeing, and putting them in a business development center with one goal: work the bid, and come up with a proposal. No vacation. No other staff meetings. When you're done, you'll get a month off, and if the bid is won, you'll get a fat bonus.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Rookie120 0]

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All the press seems to be talking about a 777 platform in lieu of the 767 that they originally bid.

Well YEAH! Airbus comes to the table with the A330 anf the AF cramed in there pants. But that size of plane is not what the AF asked for in the beggining. So Boeing is standing with cock in hand thinking "Shit". So if the AF wants a plane in the size range of the A330. The 777 is your baby. The thing is a monster and the GE-90 are a powerhouse that still amaze me everyday I see it.

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The 777 is a heavier aircraft, more capacity.

Heavier than what? The 767? 787? A330?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Gawain 0]

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Heavier than what? The 767? 787? A330?

Heavier than the 767 and 787, and heavier than the A330 that EADS/Northrup won the bid with in February.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Rookie120 0]

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Heavier than the 767 and 787, and heavier than the A330 that EADS/Northrup won the bid with in February.

Well hell yeah it's heavier. It's also a lot bigger. I look out my window at work now and I am lookin at a SAS A330 and one of our 777 next to each other and the size difference is very noticable. It also has a lot more power with the GE-90.

I would like to see both the plane and the boom mod's done in the US but I dont think that will happen. I think the AF wil stay with the Airbus. Very sad in my view but I am biased for a Boeing.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[akarunway 1]

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As a former soldier, former aircrew member on one of the boeing airframes and current contractor I say economy be damned if it is the best aircraft for the job.

as far as I know 'Keeping Tom, Dick and Harry American' employed has never been a systems engineering requirement...

anything that detracts from the needs of the force and the soldier needs to be sidelined.. (which is why I'll never be a politician)

The US doesn't NEED to spend 50% of the entire world's military budget on defense. The only reason I can see that the US does this is to keep defense contractors fat and happy.

John. The word is OFFENSE. I repeat OFFENSE.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[1969912 0]

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Given that, if I'm CEO McNerney, Jr., I'm grabbing the pick of the litter from the relevant departments within Boeing, and putting them in a business development center with one goal: work the bid, and come up with a proposal. No vacation. No other staff meetings. When you're done, you'll get a month off, and if the bid is won, you'll get a fat bonus.

I'm sure that's been going on for quite some time. The "withdraw from bidding" stuff is just political game playing.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Gawain 0]

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Heavier than the 767 and 787, and heavier than the A330 that EADS/Northrup won the bid with in February.

Well hell yeah it's heavier. It's also a lot bigger. I look out my window at work now and I am lookin at a SAS A330 and one of our 777 next to each other and the size difference is very noticable. It also has a lot more power with the GE-90.

I would like to see both the plane and the boom mod's done in the US but I dont think that will happen. I think the AF wil stay with the Airbus. Very sad in my view but I am biased for a Boeing.

It's not up to the USAF anymore. DoD reopened the bid, and SecDef is overseeing the close of the deal at the end of the year.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[BillyVance 34]

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*** I would like to see the plane built in Washington instead of France. We could use the jobs in this country instead of shipping more over the pond.

Huh? EADS plans to build the assembly plant near Mobile, AL and most of the jobs in that plant will be staffed by Americans.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[mnealtx 0]

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*** I would like to see the plane built in Washington instead of France. We could use the jobs in this country instead of shipping more over the pond.

Huh? EADS plans to build the assembly plant near Mobile, AL and most of the jobs in that plant will be staffed by Americans.

That's final assembly and not manufacture, is it not?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BillyVance 34]

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*** I would like to see the plane built in Washington instead of France. We could use the jobs in this country instead of shipping more over the pond.

Huh? EADS plans to build the assembly plant near Mobile, AL and most of the jobs in that plant will be staffed by Americans.

That's final assembly and not manufacture, is it not?

At the very least, final assembly. I'm sure portions of the plane will be manufactured in other plants nearby, but yes, some of it will come from Europe.

Think of it as building a foreign car in the US. We've got Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai assembly plants in Alabama with a slew of supporting parts plants nearby. Toyota has its Tundra V8 engine plant in Alabama as well. I do not know what percent of the parts in those cars come from overseas, but they're increasingly being manufactured here.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Gawain 0]

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*** I would like to see the plane built in Washington instead of France. We could use the jobs in this country instead of shipping more over the pond.

Huh? EADS plans to build the assembly plant near Mobile, AL and most of the jobs in that plant will be staffed by Americans.

That's final assembly and not manufacture, is it not?

At the very least, final assembly. I'm sure portions of the plane will be manufactured in other plants nearby, but yes, some of it will come from Europe.

Think of it as building a foreign car in the US. We've got Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai assembly plants in Alabama with a slew of supporting parts plants nearby. Toyota has its Tundra V8 engine plant in Alabama as well. I do not know what percent of the parts in those cars come from overseas, but they're increasingly being manufactured here.

This has been discussed. EADS had a US content figure of about 58%. Boeing was somewhere around 78-80%.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

Hell a 777 next to a 747 does not look that much different in diameter...wingspan etc.

Only the 4 engines of the 747( smaller in diameter by FAR than the 2 engines on the 777) and the upper deck really seem to make any difference when I see them parked next to each other on the tarmac at Paine Field

[Rookie120 0]

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Only the 4 engines of the 747( smaller in diameter by FAR than the 2 engines on the 777) and the upper deck really seem to make any difference when I see them parked next to each other on the tarmac at Paine Field

Yeah but the 747 is just a sexy bitch. That big hump of an upper deck is like a girl who has a nice rack. I just have to look.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[mnealtx 0]

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Only the 4 engines of the 747( smaller in diameter by FAR than the 2 engines on the 777) and the upper deck really seem to make any difference when I see them parked next to each other on the tarmac at Paine Field

Yeah but the 747 is just a sexy bitch. That big hump of an upper deck is like a girl who has a nice rack. I just have to look.

That's just so the pilot can keep his wallet in his pocket, or so I'm told.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[masterblaster72 0]

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www.suntimes.com/business/819906,boeing022908.article

Link isn't working...if it's not too much trouble for ya, mind copying & pasting a snippet of text from the article in the future?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Rookie120 0]

I dont know what pilots your talking about. Not all of them make that kind of cheese.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kallend 1,625]

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I dont know what pilots your talking about. Not all of them make that kind of cheese.

Not sure how old this is. Came from one of the big flight schools.

American Airlines: 1st yr F/O: $31,080 and 10th yr Captain $123,420

Delta Airlines: 1st yr F/O: $50,400 and 10th yr Captain $204,636

UPS: 1st yr F/O: $26,004 and 10th yr Captain $200,508

Southwest: 1st yr F/O: $42,960 and 10th yr Captain $159,000

ATA: 1st yr F/O: $36,000 and 10th yr Captain $136,632

Airborne Express: 1st yr F/O $28,536 and 10th yr Captain $146,184

Here's from another source, based on monthly salary:

A general comparison of starting monthly First Officer pay by airline*:

# AMERICAN - $2,240
# CONTINENTAL - $2,500
# DELTA - $3,640
# FED EX - $3,700
# NORTHWEST - $2,574
# SOUTHWEST - $3,744
# UNITED - $1,950
# US AIRWAYS - $1,875
# UPS - $2,187
*all without per diem, based on minimum monthly guarantee, first year pay in smallest fleet type

Here is a Captain pay comparison* at 12 years of seniority, by the largest type in fleet (best paying). This is the gross top pay scale for each fleet type:

# American 777 - $12,352
# Continental 777 - $14,688
# Delta 777 - $14,040
# Fed EX widebody $14,874
# Northwest 747 - $14,586
# Southwest 737 - $14,196
# United 747 - $11,570
# US Airways A330 $11,520
# UPS (all a/c) $15,390

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rookie120 0]

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# American 777
# Continental 777
# Delta 777
# Fed EX widebody
# Northwest 747
# Southwest 737
# United 747
# US Airways A330
# UPS

Not everybody is flyin a widebody. Why dont you go ask your Otter pilot how much he made when he started at thr regional he flies for. It is sad but at most regionals I make more in the year as a mechanic than they do starting out. And I dont have $100,000 of flight trainning to pay for. Very sad.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kallend 1,625]

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# American 777
# Continental 777
# Delta 777
# Fed EX widebody
# Northwest 747
# Southwest 737
# United 747
# US Airways A330
# UPS

Not everybody is flyin a widebody. Why dont you go ask your Otter pilot how much he made when he started at thr regional he flies for. It is sad but at most regionals I make more in the year as a mechanic than they do starting out. And I dont have $100,000 of flight trainning to pay for. Very sad.

The sub-thread related to 747s being big enough to hold pilots' wallets. Regionals are not flying 747s, they're flying CRJs, Embraers, etc.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.