kallend 1,679
Remster 26
QuoteQuoteThe biggest item to get better milage is weight. >>
I'm not sure that I agree.... Speed is the bigest factor - Remember your physics? mv^2.
or am I missing somthing?
Agreed, speed is the largest factor, with out a doubt
Noice!
Remster
billvon 2,473
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Hybrids have the largest carbon foot print to constuct, maintain and
>recycle of all vehicles.
Bzzt! Incorrect. Try again.
>recycle of all vehicles.
Bzzt! Incorrect. Try again.
funjumper101 15
QuoteA dozen accidents because rain?
Most of California doesn't get rain for months at a time. When the first rain finally comes, all of the oil, grease, and coolant that has been on and in the pavement comes out and makes the roads VERY slippery, compared to dry pavement. The combo of rain and gick is almost soapy.
Normal ops in SoCal traffic is to follow the car in front close enough to prevent anyone from cutting in front of you. That translates to about 1 to 1.5 car lengths. This spacing is maintained right up to prevailing traffic speed, which sometimes gets up to 75-80 mph. Quite spooky, if you aren't used to it. This spacing does not change when the first rain comes. The combination of constant tailgating and slippery pavement = lots of accidents.
The same thing happens in the mid-Atlantic states when there is an inch or two of snow. Accidents everywhere until the drivers adjust the the new conditions.
I hope that Shrub gets a clue and doesn't veto the increase in CAFE. Most likely, he will.
SBS 0
Maybe I don't know enough about this subject, but I don't understand how this represents lower fuel prices...seems like the prices will just continue to rise in proportion to the fuel that we save. If we use 20% less fuel, I would put my money on prices rising 20%+.
Is that not true?
Is that not true?
_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
kallend 1,679
QuoteMaybe I don't know enough about this subject, but I don't understand how this represents lower fuel prices...seems like the prices will just continue to rise in proportion to the fuel that we save. If we use 20% less fuel, I would put my money on prices rising 20%+.
Is that not true?
www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 18
I will regret giving you your chance to see yourself as cute again but here
http://www.cnbc.com/id/18176364/
Now, I know there are other reports and research that support your view too. The point? It is not one sided and simple as you would have us believe
Edited to add.
Safey and being safe is situational as noted in this article
http://www.cnbc.com/id/18176364/
Now, I know there are other reports and research that support your view too. The point? It is not one sided and simple as you would have us believe
Edited to add.
Safey and being safe is situational as noted in this article
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
So with your law of supply and demand. Do you think that increasing the MPG in our country will have any impact on the price of gas? I just dont see it happening. Increase the MPG by 2020 but then there probably be a few more million cars on the road so what did it accomplish in helping the cost of gas go down?
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
kallend 1,679
QuoteI will regret giving you your chance to see yourself as cute again but here
http://www.cnbc.com/id/18176364/
Now, I know there are other reports and research that support your view too. The point? It is not one sided and simple as you would have us believe
Edited to add.
Safey and being safe is situational as noted in this article
1. Where does it say 96000 deaths would be prevented over 10 years if we all drove SUVs (your original, still unverified, claim)?
2. It does say "The general rule of thumb being: the heavier and larger the vehicle, the safer its occupants will be when in an accident." But it says nothing about the likelihood of being in an accident in the first place. SUVs are far more likely to be in single vehicle accidents (like rollovers) than passenger cars (source, NHTSB).
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 1,679
QuoteSo with your law of supply and demand.
You give me too much credit. The law of supply and demand predates even me.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 18
QuoteQuoteI will regret giving you your chance to see yourself as cute again but here
http://www.cnbc.com/id/18176364/
Now, I know there are other reports and research that support your view too. The point? It is not one sided and simple as you would have us believe
Edited to add.
Safey and being safe is situational as noted in this article
1. Where does it say 96000 deaths would be prevented over 10 years if we all drove SUVs (your original, still unverified, claim)?
2. It does say "The general rule of thumb being: the heavier and larger the vehicle, the safer its occupants will be when in an accident." But it says nothing about the likelihood of being in an accident in the first place. SUVs are far more likely to be in single vehicle accidents (like rollovers) than passenger cars (source, NHTSB).
See, you are feeling cute
Hey, get out of my mirror
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 1,679
QuoteQuoteQuoteI will regret giving you your chance to see yourself as cute again but here
http://www.cnbc.com/id/18176364/
Now, I know there are other reports and research that support your view too. The point? It is not one sided and simple as you would have us believe
Edited to add.
Safey and being safe is situational as noted in this article
1. Where does it say 96000 deaths would be prevented over 10 years if we all drove SUVs (your original, still unverified, claim)?
2. It does say "The general rule of thumb being: the heavier and larger the vehicle, the safer its occupants will be when in an accident." But it says nothing about the likelihood of being in an accident in the first place. SUVs are far more likely to be in single vehicle accidents (like rollovers) than passenger cars (source, NHTSB).
See, you are feeling cute
Hey, get out of my mirror
rushmc wrote on Aug 29: "taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years"
Now, can you back up that claim with a credible source, or can't you? Yes or no?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
jakee 1,279
QuoteSo with your law of supply and demand. Do you think that increasing the MPG in our country will have any impact on the price of gas? I just dont see it happening. Increase the MPG by 2020 but then there probably be a few more million cars on the road so what did it accomplish in helping the cost of gas go down?
So you're saying that increasing numbers of cars will offset increased gas mileage. OK. Now think really hard about what would happen to demand if mileage stayed at current levels and the number of cars still went up. Now compare the two scenarios.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
SBS 0
Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a society where it could be that simple?
_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
airdvr 200
QuoteQuoteSo with your law of supply and demand. Do you think that increasing the MPG in our country will have any impact on the price of gas? I just dont see it happening. Increase the MPG by 2020 but then there probably be a few more million cars on the road so what did it accomplish in helping the cost of gas go down?
So you're saying that increasing numbers of cars will offset increased gas mileage. OK. Now think really hard about what would happen to demand if mileage stayed at current levels and the number of cars still went up. Now compare the two scenarios.
Still not seeing how any of this would reduce the price of gas. Not saying it's a bad thing, just don't think the increase in CAFE will reduce fule prices.
Please don't dent the planet.
Destinations by Roxanne
Destinations by Roxanne
billvon 2,473
>but I don't understand how this represents lower fuel prices...
Supply and demand.
Case 1: Same CAFE standards, same increase in car ownership, same miles driven, dwindling oil supply.
Case 2: Increased CAFE standards (i.e. reduced demand per vehicle) same increase in car ownership, dwindling oil supply.
Case 2 will result in cheaper gas prices than case 1. Indeed, any time you reduce consumption while keeping the same variables constant, price tends to decrease. Basic economics.
>If we use 20% less fuel, I would put my money on prices rising 20%+.
That's sort of the opposite of what basic economic theory says. Like if you eat 20% less, you'll become 20% heavier.
Supply and demand.
Case 1: Same CAFE standards, same increase in car ownership, same miles driven, dwindling oil supply.
Case 2: Increased CAFE standards (i.e. reduced demand per vehicle) same increase in car ownership, dwindling oil supply.
Case 2 will result in cheaper gas prices than case 1. Indeed, any time you reduce consumption while keeping the same variables constant, price tends to decrease. Basic economics.
>If we use 20% less fuel, I would put my money on prices rising 20%+.
That's sort of the opposite of what basic economic theory says. Like if you eat 20% less, you'll become 20% heavier.
Gawain 0
Quote>With the better cars, came stricter emissions and higher safety
>standards, both of which increased weight.
The safest modern cars are considerably lighter than your average pre-1970 cars.
No argument there, but in the economy class of vehicles, the exact opposite is true. A Honda Civic CRX HF from 15 years ago got over 40mpg on the highway, is a prime example.
In fact, I know of no economy class car that is lighter today, than their predecessor from 10 years ago. Whether a Chevy Cavalier, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Ford Escort, etc.
It's true that the big barges of the 70s don't exist anymore, but the cars designed for economy have gotten super heavy over the past 20 years.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
kallend 1,679
QuoteWouldn't it be nice if we lived in a society where it could be that simple?
Are you REALLY claiming that supply and demand economic laws don't operate in our society?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 1,679
Quote"Regardless of your points here the highway safety administration says taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years. Period"
Still waiting for a source for that claim of yours.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
ExAFO 0
QuoteQuote"Regardless of your points here the highway safety administration says taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years. Period"
Still waiting for a source for that claim of yours.
Let it go. He's going to answer that question about the same time you answer the question asking if you own firearms.
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
rushmc 18
QuoteQuoteQuote"Regardless of your points here the highway safety administration says taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years. Period"
Still waiting for a source for that claim of yours.
Let it go. He's going to answer that question about the same time you answer the question asking if you own firearms.
Dam, you beat me to it. I was just going to remind him of his dual faces when he states to do your own research
He bring up something from August and ignores the Nov 07 stuff. In honesty I cant find where I got the info he wants but I really dont care. After all, he just wants to be cute
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 1,679
QuoteQuoteQuote"Regardless of your points here the highway safety administration says taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years. Period"
Still waiting for a source for that claim of yours.
Let it go. He's going to answer that question about the same time you answer the question asking if you own firearms.
I don't think it unreasonable to ask people who make claims in this forum to provide a source for the claim. It's not like I'm asking a personal question.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
ExAFO 0
Quote
Dam, you beat me to it. I was just going to remind him of his dual faces when he states to do your own research
In honesty I cant find where I got the info he wants but I really dont care. After all, he just wants to be cute
They're really not the same issue, (source v. personal motives) but my statement remains. Neither will answer to their satisfaction.
The SC reminds me of the first few minutes of "2001: A Space Odyssey."
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
billvon 2,473
>In fact, I know of no economy class car that is lighter today, than
>their predecessor from 10 years ago.
Right. You generally have to redesign a car to make it lighter; then it's a different car.
>but the cars designed for economy have gotten super heavy over
>the past 20 years.
Average vehicle weight has gone up somewhat, but that's due primarily to the popularity of SUV's, and the addition of a lot of stuff (airbags etc) over the years. It dropped rather abruptly in the 1970's, ironically as cars were getting much safer, and has since been crawling back upwards. But it's been pretty slow, and a given class of car (say, a 2 door sedan) isn't much heavier than it was in 1980 - and it is MUCH lighter than the same car was in 1965.
However, I expect the trend towards heavier vehicles to accelerate as heavier engine systems (hybrids mainly) become more commonplace.
>their predecessor from 10 years ago.
Right. You generally have to redesign a car to make it lighter; then it's a different car.
>but the cars designed for economy have gotten super heavy over
>the past 20 years.
Average vehicle weight has gone up somewhat, but that's due primarily to the popularity of SUV's, and the addition of a lot of stuff (airbags etc) over the years. It dropped rather abruptly in the 1970's, ironically as cars were getting much safer, and has since been crawling back upwards. But it's been pretty slow, and a given class of car (say, a 2 door sedan) isn't much heavier than it was in 1980 - and it is MUCH lighter than the same car was in 1965.
However, I expect the trend towards heavier vehicles to accelerate as heavier engine systems (hybrids mainly) become more commonplace.
I have done so befor. Are you have memory problems??
No, you have not. On Aug 29 2007 you wrote:
"Regardless of your points here the highway safety administration says taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years. Period"
You were challenged repeatedly to provide a source, (for example, here and here), but you never did.
So how about it now?
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.