Young Republicans

[pirana 0]

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Nice rant - and with a few small modifications would be just as applicable to YD's.

Agreed. In my rant on the Lions for Lambs thread, I blame most everybody without regard to party affiliation. I pick on the YR's more though because they come right out and say they think the war is a good idea. Bottom line though is that we are all responsible.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[nerdgirl 0]

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Hell no. The military is not, and should not be, a social experiment. It should win wars, plain and simple.

This is an active debate (not the 'social experiment' part) but on what is the role of the military in the 21st Century beyond winning wars.

My favorite DoD Directive 3000.05 -- doesn't everyone have a favorite DoDD? --"Military Support for Stability, Security, Transition, and Reconstruction (SSTR) Operations", issued November 2005 directs

"Stability operations are a core U.S. military mission that the Department of Defense shall be prepared to conduct and support. They shall be given priority comparable to combat operations [emphasis nerdgirl] and be explicitly addressed and integrated across all DoD activities including doctrine, organizations, training, education, exercises, materiel, leadership, personnel, facilities, and planning."

That has the potential to have the largest impact on the DoD and the military services since Goldwater-Nichols. That was 20 years ago ...

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Lefty 0]

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Hell no. The military is not, and should not be, a social experiment. It should win wars, plain and simple.

This is an active debate (not the 'social experiment' part) but on what is the role of the military in the 21st Century beyond winning wars.

My favorite DoD Directive 3000.05 -- doesn't everyone have a favorite DoDD? --"Military Support for Stability, Security, Transition, and Reconstruction (SSTR) Operations", issued November 2005 directs

"Stability operations are a core U.S. military mission that the Department of Defense shall be prepared to conduct and support. They shall be given priority comparable to combat operations [emphasis nerdgirl] and be explicitly addressed and integrated across all DoD activities including doctrine, organizations, training, education, exercises, materiel, leadership, personnel, facilities, and planning."

That has the potential to have the largest impact on the DoD and the military services since Goldwater-Nichols. That was 20 years ago ...

VR/Marg

Good point.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[SpeedRacer 1]

WTF????

are these people serious who are posting about starting up the draft?? or do they just wanna stick it to the young republicans??

I thought Liberals were supposed to be against things like conscription.

I consider myself a liberal (a small government liberal), and I am DEFINITELY opposed to the draft, just as much as I was when I was actually young enough to still be drafted.

Anyway, part of Bush's problems have been that he didn't listen to his military advisors, especially when they told him something he didn't wanna hear. Well the boots on the ground are saying, "We don't want draftees."
So are you all going to be like Bush now and NOT listen to them???

Speed Racer
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[kallend 1,673]

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WTF????

are these people serious who are posting about starting up the draft?? or do they just wanna stick it to the young republicans??

I thought Liberals were supposed to be against things like conscription.

I consider myself a liberal (a small government liberal), and I am DEFINITELY opposed to the draft, just as much as I was when I was actually young enough to still be drafted.

Anyway, part of Bush's problems have been that he didn't listen to his military advisors, especially when they told him something he didn't wanna hear. Well the boots on the ground are saying, "We don't want draftees."
So are you all going to be like Bush now and NOT listen to them???

The Army reported today that desertions are up 42%. I guess there will be even more YRs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Muenkel 0]

I love the YR's. Mostly because they are my nieces and nephews. Best young adults in the world.
I'm a proud uncle.

_________________________________________
Chris

[mnealtx 0]

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The Army reported today that desertions are up 42%. I guess there will be even more YRs.

Or YD's that "only joined up for the college money"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[johndh1 0]

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...are these people serious who are posting about starting up the draft?? or do they just wanna stick it to the young republicans...

I think as far as the video, the draft thing is more tongue-in-cheek as far as the narrator is concerned. The impression they want to give is that the Republicans send the less-privileged Democrats off to fight wars over ego and oil - this, I think, is left over from the Viet Nam era, and is an unfair and inaccurate portrayal, though.

I have to say, the interview participants weren't the victims of soundbite manipulation, but rather they just proved one thing: their age group has a lot to learn, and global politics and war are not their forte just yet.

Maybe they did learn one thing, though (as did those dumbasses from South Carolina, thanks to Borat): Be careful when someone wants to record you...

Roll Tide Roll

[Amazon 7]

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I have to say, the interview participants weren't the victims of soundbite manipulation, but rather they just proved one thing: their age group has a lot to learn, and global politics and war are not their forte just yet.

I remember the very same group of people from the very same class from the very same party being exactly the same... during the Vietnam war when I was in HS and starting off in college. Most of those same turds have now risen to the top of the Republican cesspool and run our government.

[johndh1 0]

But didn't Kennedy escalate our involvement in Vietnam? Not a Republican? I must consult wikipedia...

It just shows how the parties shift in attitudes and principles. I see that today. We're dealing with Iraq like the Bay of Pigs and Gulf War I - military's hands tied by politics and not finishing the job we began.

Still, I don't trust those Bush people. I don't hardly trust anyone in DC.

Roll Tide Roll

[Amazon 7]

Kennedy sent Advisors.... Far different than what the Conservative TEXICAN that followed him did

We should never EVER allow another president from Texas

All arrogance and blood and guts with other peoples blood..... and far too incompetent to run a war.

[mnealtx 0]

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and far too incompetent to run a war.

Hmm... roughly 200 deaths a year more than Clinton...while fighting first a 2 front war and then an insurgency...and HE'S the incompetent?

Yeah, ok...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[1969912 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6v1HIIcbnA



.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[akarunway 1]

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But didn't Kennedy escalate our involvement in Vietnam? Not a Republican? I must consult wikipedia...

It just shows how the parties shift in attitudes and principles. I see that today. We're dealing with Iraq like the Bay of Pigs and Gulf War I - military's hands tied by politics and not finishing the job we began.

Still, I don't trust those Bush people. I don't hardly trust anyone in DC.

Actually tho I hate Bush 2 I have some respect for Bush one. He did what he had to do and GOT OUT. No need to destabilize the region further. Plus he skydives. (even if he is a tandem pussy)

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[johndh1 0]

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Kennedy sent Advisors.... Far different than what the Conservative TEXICAN that followed him did

Then someone go onto wikipedia and correct the misinformation...or that's a LOT of "advisors:"

from wikipedia.org under "Vietnam War:"

"...President John F. Kennedy increased America's troop numbers from 500 to 16,000..."

I did not cut this to suit.

Or do you mean he sent advisors before making his decision to send the troops? Heck, I am against our being in Iraq, but I am convinced that Iraq had the WMDs they have been accused of, and either intended to use them if they had them (or acquired them) or were a victim of their own standoff sabre-rattling if the didn't.

As for Bush - HW Bush leaving the aggressor in power is a big reason we are there now under W. Same goes for Kennedy and Cuba.

We need to decide: either we leave them "at bay," and seal our borders for protection, or we eliminate them altogether and don't agonize over their non-combat losses and potential anarchy and tribal warfare. Anything else is only putting off the inevitable, which is their coming at us again.

Roll Tide Roll

[Amazon 7]

Back at ya

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uppHi5Dhm3M

[Royd 0]

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Most of those same turds have now risen to the top of the Republican cesspool and run our government.

Is there a separate Democrat cesspool with the big turds floating at the top? It seems to me that Reid and Pelosi both have a pretty shitty attitude about life in general.

[Amazon 7]

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http://www.pbs.org/battlefieldvietnam/history/index.html

Will PBS do??

http://www.pbs.org/battlefieldvietnam/history/index.html

At the time of the Kennedy and Diem assassinations, there were 16,000 military advisers in Vietnam. The Kennedy administration had managed to run the war from Washington without the large-scale introduction of American combat troops. The continuing political problems in Saigon, however, convinced the new president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, that more aggressive action was needed. Perhaps Johnson was more prone to military intervention or maybe events in Vietnam had forced the president's hand to more direct action. In any event, after a dubious DRV raid on two U.S. ships in the Gulf of Tonkin, the Johnson administration argued for expansive war powers for the president.



Most of them were training ARVN troops or participating in the Strategic Hamlet program or other assests that we did not the NLF to get the hands on.

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[johndh1 0]

No offense, I like PBS, and I like NPR, but I don't set their statements in stone, and I always seek a second opinion.

So I'm clear, especially with Amazon, let me say: I am not for our being in Iraq - I am for putting all these troops on OUR borders and desert. I don't want us there. I know people there right now, both civilian and military. I work in a gym that regularly caters with free membership (at my urging) to soldiers (unusually high concentration of Marines here in the Birmingham area) home locally who tell me that they feel their "second home is Iraq."

It makes me feel weird to hear them talk of how most people here don't understand how they know that they are doing the right thing there, and our media distorts the real issues, yadda, yadda.." I want to take their firsthand account over anything I see on here or youtube or whatever, but they seem so compelling and sincere...and I wonder if their youth and zeal and the fact that they were maybe seniors in high school when 9/11/01 happened may have set the pace for their thinking from there on out.

The Bush family is very corrupt, and in bed with the Saudis (coincidentally, another oil dynasty!), and most of the 9/11 murderers were Saudis - something many forget. Not me.

At the same time, I cannot say it's all about Republicans (even though these idiots in the college-Republicans video make me want to), when we still have troops in Bosnia/Kosovo protecting MUSLIMS from "CHRISTIANS" that Clinton promised would be out completely, oh, what a decade ago? PS: Clinton?...Blackhawk Down.

I think neither the high-ranking Democrats nor the Republicans hold the monolopy on elitism or totalitarianism, nor the willingness to send "#whatever" into harm's way.

Roll Tide Roll

[Amazon 7]

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I want to take their firsthand account over anything I see on here or youtube or whatever, but they seem so compelling and sincere...and I wonder if their youth and zeal and the fact that they were maybe seniors in high school when 9/11/01 happened may have set the pace for their thinking from there on out.

ONce upon a time.. I believed in the Vietnam war... that we were keeping the whole region from falling to the domino effect of communism...

Our government lied to us then.. and this government has lied to us now.... the lessons of Vietnam were not learned by these people who sent our young people to Iraq fo their own gain.

President Eisenhower knew the type well and warned us about them.

[johndh1 0]

I have to say I agree with you - though they were made to be the villain, the hippies ended up on the side of right (however misguided), when the papers were released; that the whole thing was a joke and everything was played as a board game with no consequences felt by the control.

What a shame it is now that we find that, statistically, our homeless and mentally ill have the majority population of veterans.

We let our Republicans pretend they are part of the moral majority of God-fearing folk (Foley, Craig), and let our Democrats pretend they are on the lower-half of the social ladder, representation of the downtrodden (Edwards with his 12,000 ft. home and Kennedy, say no more...)

Yeah, they represent us.

Roll Tide Roll

[Amazon 7]

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and let our Democrats pretend they are on the lower-half of the social ladder, representation of the downtrodden (Edwards with his 12,000 ft. home and Kennedy,

I would think that the Republicans could respect someone like Edwards.. I do not think he came from mon ey.. he DID bring himself up by his own work... even if he was a lawyer.

Oh that is right.. that only occured in the OLD republican party before dogma and the Religious Wrong subverted it into a kabalistic big tent where b eing gay seems to be the norm as long as it is deep in the closet along with the under the table deals with lobbyists that subvert the will of the People.

[Lefty 0]

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I would think that the Republicans could respect someone like Edwards.. I do not think he came from mon ey.. he DID bring himself up by his own work... even if he was a lawyer.

I can definitely respect that. As proof, I will state right here and now that John Edwards does not deserve to have his tax rate disproportionately jacked up just because he is now part of the "evil rich" class.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Royd 0]

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I am for putting all these troops on OUR borders and desert. I don't want us there.

If we were to have the troops in the states, and actually attempt to protect the borders, who do you think would be bitching about it?

[Amazon 7]

All the Illegals who thought they could get jobs at republican owned companies.