Interesting jihadi web site

[funkcanna 0]

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At least we're not cutting children's heads off with knives, as is being done by Islamic extremists.

No but members of the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints sure as hell like sleeping with them....

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[StreetScooby 5]

Instead of lumping all of Islam into one entity, we (including our media) should start effectively delineating them, e.g.

"Fundamentalist Church of Sunnis"
"Modern Church of Sunnis"
"Fundamentalist Church of Shiites"
"Modern Church of Shiites"

etc.,

I don't know if that's ridiculous or not. What do think?

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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No but members of the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints sure as hell like sleeping with them....

This is a little off thread, but LOL!

We are all engines of karma

[funkcanna 0]

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This is a little off thread, but LOL!

Kinda - but the fact is smaller sections of the Christian faith do barbaric things too, however the full religion doesnt get labelled like Islam does based on a similar few smaller sections.

I'm guessing the only exposure you have to Islam is what you see on TV right? I;m not having a go at you but the hatred in general for Islam in the West is propaganda driven. Very few people will actually visit an Islamic country and see for themselves.

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[StreetScooby 5]

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I'm guessing the only exposure you have to Islam is what you see on TV right?

TV is the last place I go for information. I know of several people who have visited Islamic countries. Egypt is a nightmare. Saudi Arabia is down right frightening. Turkey can be moderate in the cities. This is the feedback I'm hearing.

Would I personally visit an Islamic country? Probably not, due to concerns for my safety as an obvious American.

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however the full religion doesnt get labelled like Islam does based on a similar few smaller sections.

I don't think you can call it a few smaller sections. Which Islamic authorities in the Middle East are not issuing fatwahs for the destruction of non-Muslims?

We are all engines of karma

[funkcanna 0]

The media play a cunning game and they have done so for a long time in regard to stiring up hatred.

Something that was very prominent was whenever a crime was committed by a white guy they said "A man....". Whenever it was a black guy they said "A black man...". Why? Is the black guy not a man? This mentioning of his colour in relation to a crime unknowingly links black men and crime in viewers minds. The same is now happening with Religion. If something bad happens and its a Muslim, you can be sure it will be "A muslim man...". When have you ever heard "A christian man..."? Never? Nor me...

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[Weezil 0]

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Weezil said:
You have directed our attention to a web-site that for all intentions seems very moderate and rather interesting. There is nothing in your criticism of islam that is reflected in the editorial of this website.

StreetScooby replied:
I can believe this is a moderate jihadi web site, compared to the other web site discussed in the NYTimes article. I have to disagree with your assessment of the content. Maybe that's the best we're going to do in this discussion.

Ok, I after reading the link you posted I can see your point The website you posted is so mild that the journalist writing the article ends up pulling thier punches when criticising the website itself, prefering instead to focus on one of the contributors.

It is amazing they didn't emphasise the finding that many of the videos showing attrocities commited against American troops are regularly posted on youtube

This would suggest that time is better spent regulating the content of Youtube than trying to "ban" islamist websites.
This might not of produced such a tasty journalistic scoop as going after a "jihadi" website, but would of highlighted something more worrying. Specifically, everytime we log onto the likes of youtube, we are ourselves promoting a portal for this medium (from all sides).

Now that would of produced some interesting reading.......

[funkcanna 0]

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Which Islamic authorities in the Middle East are not issuing fatwahs for the destruction of non-Muslims?

Can you link me to any of these Fatwas? I am not aware of any that specifically mention the destruction of non-Muslims, apologies.

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[Darius11 12]

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That's not a fair statement. At least we're not cutting children's heads off with knives, as is being done by Islamic extremists.

We started a war (an unjust war) for the wrong reasons that has resulted in the deaths of many Iraqi civilians. We are not extremists and not murders or at least we claim not to be, however are actions have caused the deaths of many.

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Islam is not a peaceful tolerant religion as practiced today. It's needs a reformation at its highest levels within the Middle Eastern community.

There is no such thing as a tolerant religion if the religion rules are actually followed.

If Jews, Christians and Muslims followed what there religion stated it would be anything but tolerant, and a lot of people would be killed or punished.

What you are mentioning is the big issue.
There are people in the world and not just the Muslim worlds who believe in what their religion tells them and do not believe in modifying it.

The main reform in the Middle East needs to be separation of Church and State. After the separation of church and state went in to effect then it would take time to adjust peoples view.

Just like in the US; a lot of things have to become acceptable by the general population That takes time. Just think of what was considered unacceptable 50 years ago in the us.


And again Islam in not a religion of peace but justice.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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Instead of lumping all of Islam into one entity, we (including our media) should start effectively delineating them, e.g.

"Fundamentalist Church of Sunnis"
"Modern Church of Sunnis"
"Fundamentalist Church of Shiites"
"Modern Church of Shiites"

etc.,

I don't know if that's ridiculous or not. What do think?

I think us as people just need to realize that there are extremist every where, and just as some Jewish, or Christian groups do not represent all Christians and Jews the Extremist Muslims do not represent all Muslims.

You know I have lived and have been close to people from all walks of life and they all want the same thing.
A chance to be productive, a chance to grow, Safety, and the same for there kids.




I think you are correct that there is a culture clash. However I also I think what we need to understand is this. The reason we were attacked was not that we like are girls half naked, that we drink beer, or that people have sex out side of marriage, but mostly because of our foreign policy and are pervious history in the Middle East.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

Gee let me know how being on that watchlist goes for you

[StreetScooby 5]

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And again Islam in not a religion of peace but justice.

I have learned something today.
Thank you, Darius.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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I think you are correct that there is a culture clash. However I also I think what we need to understand is this. The reason we were attacked was not that we like are girls half naked, that we drink beer, or that people have sex out side of marriage, but mostly because of our foreign policy and are pervious history in the Middle East.

Exactly what foreign policy are you referring to? While we do seem to give unequivocal support to Israel, we are also giving support to other countries in that area (e.g., Egypt). Where would be a good place to look for more information on this?

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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Gee let me know how being on that watchlist goes for you

That's why a went to the moderate web site from the NYTimes article! LOL!

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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Can you link me to any of these Fatwas? I am not aware of any that specifically mention the destruction of non-Muslims, apologies.

Good point. I tend to read many different web news services, and have never questioned these articles, especially when the same is quoted across disparate sites. Then again, are fatwahs posted on the internet? What about English translations?

We are all engines of karma

[Darius11 12]

I guess I should have used a better word. I should say are pervious foreign policy as well as current.

The list is long, and I honestly don’t know of a place where the various informations are gathered.

We have a long history of supporting puppet governments, Horrible dictators we sided with, and sometimes even direct interference in a conflict, and etc. The list is long and goes back a 100 years for us and even longer for the British.

We just need to mind our own business or do the right thing under the understanding that the right thing for us is not always the right thing morally speaking.



Here is my personal disclaimer.

The thing that I always try to remind my self of is this. If we were not a super power if we were the weak would we be treated in a morally right way? I really don’t think that would be the case. I believe some of the countries might do much worst then we have if they could.


But that also begs this questions to be asked.
If we were weaker would we like being treated like the way we have treated others in the past?
I also think the answer to this would also be a no. Just think we are weak and a country that is half way around the planet sends a cruse missile to your city, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[funkcanna 0]

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Then again, are fatwahs posted on the internet? What about English translations?

yes I beleive so - I know Saudi have a site for all new published Fatwas and they are normally translated too.

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[nerdgirl 0]

Foreign Policy put together a list of "World's Stupid Fatwas," which illustrates that like the lists of crazy state and local US laws that circulate the internet, strange policies are global:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3906

a lot the guys around here might actually endorse the spirit of the last one

1. Salman Rushdie

Who: Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran

What: A fatwa is simply a religious ruling in Islam—most often, it seems, fatwas are about sexual matters—but Westerners usually associate the term with the notorious 1989 death sentence against British author Salman Rushdie. At the time, Khomeini was seeking to distract his followers from the pointless slaughter of the recently ended Iran-Iraq war, during which hundreds of thousands of Iranians were killed and wounded. Rushdie had just authored The Satanic Verses, an edgy novel about the origins of the Koran, and thus proved the perfect foil for Khomeini’s designs. Thousands of irate Muslims around the world protested the book as an insult to Islam. For a decade, Rushdie lived in hiding, fearing assassination for his “apostasy.” More recently, when Queen Elizabeth II knighted the author for his literary achievements, al Qaeda called for retaliation against Britain. And Khomeini’s successor, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khomeini, reversed his earlier position and said that the original 1989 fatwa remains in force.

2. Unclothed sex

Who: Rashad Hassan Khalil, former dean of Islamic law at al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt

What: When Khalil ruled in January 2006 that for married couples, “being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage,” liberal Egyptians howled with derision. Other scholars rejected Khalil’s logic on the grounds that everything but “sodomy” is halal in a marriage. Absorbing the criticism but seeking to appease religious conservatives, Abdullah Megawar, the fatwa committee chairman at al-Azhar, reached for an awkward compromise. Sure, he said, a husband and wife could see one other naked, but should not look at each other’s genitals. And they should probably have sex under a blanket, he added for good measure.

3. Pokémon

Who: Saudi Arabia’s Higher Committee for Scientific Research and Islamic Law

What: Denouncing the lovable Japanese cartoon characters as having “possessed the minds” of Saudi youngsters, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious authority banned Pokémon video games and cards in the spring of 2001. Not only do Saudi scholars believe that Pokémon encourages gambling, which is forbidden in Islam, but it is apparently a front for Israel as well. The fatwa’s authors claimed that Pokémon games include, “the Star of David, which everyone knows is connected to international Zionism and is Israel’s national emblem.” Religious authorities in the United Arab Emirates joined in, condemning the games for promoting evolution, “a Jewish-Darwinist theory that conflicts with the truth about humans and with Islamic principles,” but didn’t ban them outright. Even the Catholic Church in Mexico got into the act, calling Pokémon video games “demonic.”

4. Polio vaccine

Who: Local mullahs in rural Pakistan

What: Pakistan’s largest Islamist umbrella group, the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), issued a fatwa in January 2007 endorsing the provincial government’s efforts to immunize children from polio in the country’s Northwest Frontier Province. But even though health workers carried copies of the ruling with them as they trudged across the province, The Guardian reported in February 2007 that the parents of some 24,000 children had refused to allow the workers to administer polio drops. It turns out that influential antistate clerics had been issuing their own fatwas denouncing the campaign as a Western plot to sterilize Muslims. Although Pakistan only saw 39 cases of polio last year and most children have now been immunized, a similar religiously motivated firestorm against polio drops in Nigeria in 2003 allowed the eradicable disease to spread to 12 new countries in just 18 months.

5. Breast-feeding

Who: Ezzat Atiya, a lecturer at Cairo’s al-Azhar University

What: Many Muslims believe that unmarried men and women should not work alone together—a stricture that can pose problems in today’s global economy. So one Islamic scholar came up with a novel solution: If a woman were to breast-feed her male colleague five times, the two could safely be alone together. “A woman at work can take off the veil or reveal her hair in front of someone whom she breast-fed,” he wrote in an opinion issued in May 2007. He based his reasoning—which was quickly and widely derided in the Egyptian press, in the parliament, and on Arabic-language talk shows—on stories from the Prophet Mohammed’s time in which, Atiya maintained, the practice occurred. Although Atiya headed the department dealing with the Prophet’s sayings, al-Azhar University’s higher authorities were not impressed. They suspended the iconoclastic scholar, and he subsequently recanted his ruling as a “bad interpretation of a particular case.”

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[StreetScooby 5]

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yes I beleive so - I know Saudi have a site for all new published Fatwas and they are normally translated too.

Can you find a link for that site, please? I would love to see it. Thanks.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Very interesting read. Thanks for the post.

We are all engines of karma

[funkcanna 0]

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Can you find a link for that site, please? I would love to see it. Thanks.

I cannot find the actual site but here is a news article relating to it - they basically want it so that stupid Fatwas are given far less prominance than not so stupid ones

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7032140.stm

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[wmw999 2,149]

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It Islamic religious authorities that are advocating the violence.

A fatwa only matters to the people who follow that particular leader. It's kind of like taking a decree by Oral Roberts and saying that it's a Christian doctrine.

There are people who will act on it. But what makes you think that other countries are less likely to report on the outrageous instead of the mundane than the US is?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Skyrad 0]

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At present, there's a thread going titled " sawing off the head of a person in the name of our Creator" (http://talk.islamicnetwork.com/showthread.php?p=124677#post124677) that contains yet more virulent talk by Muslims about non-Muslims.ek.

The thread you are referring to was started by a american / westerner and the comments made by the muslims, to me, are pretty tame and in retaliation in comparison to posts on here and other websites classifying all Muslims as terrorists.

Pigeon-holing all of Islam because of literally a handful of extremists is wrong. I live in an Islamic country and trust me, to tar all Muslims with the same brush as Al-Qaeda is shocking and down right ridiculous. yes, countries like Saudi and Iran have much stricter rules than the west regarding religion but so what? that is their way - it doesnt mean they want to kill people of other religions. Unlike the US government who seem hell bent on wiping out the Middle East (however avoiding touching Israel)

Bloody realist!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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To keep the thread on the track that I intended - my point is Islam is not a religion that can live with other cultures. They can't even live with their own "sub-cultures" (i.e., Sunni vs. Shia). Islam needs a reformation.

LOL...Come visit me in Northern Ireland and see how well Christian sub-cultures (i.e., Catholic vs. Prods) live together.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[warpedskydiver 0]

Are they all holding hands and singing Kum Bay Yah?