Ahmadinejad to speak at Columbia University

[vpozzoli 0]

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V - What is Italy's position on giving non-citizens the same rights as Italians?

(the actual position, not just your opinion on how you 'should' do it?)

As far as I know, exactly like most other countries, i.e. with very few exceptions like for instance political rights (such as the right to vote or run for public office etc.) as long as you're here you'll have the same rights as any other citizen. There are no laws that only apply to citizens and vice versa, this includes both rights and duties.
In short, you cannot carry on the bank robbery you were planning to do in Italy with impunity , you'll be tried and convicted like any other citizen, which means you will have a fair trial as defined by current local law just like any citizen.

Cheers,

Vale

P.S. This of course does not include the right to immigrate legally, that is a privilege and is given or denied according to current immigration policies. But once you're in you're not a second class person.

P.P.S. Actually there is a notable exception to the "no immunity" law, and that is U.S. Military personnel stationed in Italy as part of NATO cannot be tried by the local courts, but this does not equate to actual immunity as they still have to be tried by a US court, either civil or military. That's a bit questionable if you ask me and the results are often a joke but hey, you won the war so that must make it right, no?

[vpozzoli 0]

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V - What is Italy's position on giving non-citizens the same rights as Italians?

Or even the citizens....





like Oriana Fallaci?

And let the mud slinging start...
By the way, I don't really get your reference, care to explain?

Vale

[rehmwa 2]

I'd rather read the answer than just have you springboard off of my question. I'd really like to know, comparatively, the positions of these governments, especially when the citizens keep claiming US citizens are acting self righteous and claiming moral 'high ground'.

I think it's a self evident pot/kettle thing from the outset.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 0]

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As the leader of a nation member of the UN, he has the right to come here to attend the UN session, but the US has the right to restrict his visa to that purpose only, and not let him travel outside his hotel room except to travel to & from the UN building. But Columbia's academic freedom is important, too. My solution to balance these interests: restrict him to his hotel room, but let Columbia set up a live video-conference link from his hotel room.

How about we extend to foreign dinitaries the same level of rights and privileges that they afford their citizens???

Arguably, in this case, you'd have to amend the US Constitution to do that. The instant his plane crossed into US airspace, he was afforded First Amendment rights, which are silent as to citizenship.

[NCclimber 0]

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As the leader of a nation member of the UN, he has the right to come here to attend the UN session, but the US has the right to restrict his visa to that purpose only, and not let him travel outside his hotel room except to travel to & from the UN building. But Columbia's academic freedom is important, too. My solution to balance these interests: restrict him to his hotel room, but let Columbia set up a live video-conference link from his hotel room.

How about we extend to foreign dinitaries the same level of rights and privileges that they afford their citizens???

Arguably, in this case, you'd have to amend the US Constitution to do that. The instant his plane crossed into US airspace, he was afforded First Amendment rights, which are silent as to citizenship.

I was just kidding.

This whole situation has a lot of grey areas.

He's a head of state - therefore he should be afforded all diplomatic courtousies(sp?) gven to heads of state.

However...

He is not coming here on a diplomatic visit to the United States. He is coming to the UN, which so happens, is on US soil. In other words, he's being allowed here (despite his antagonistic rhetoric) because our agreement with the UN.

Since it's not cut and dried (to me), I say err on the side of diplomacy.

[kallend 1,623]

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I find it ironic that Columbia will let Ackmindickahead speak at their campus but they will not let the ROTC have a chapter on their campus. Doesn't free speech apply to all parties? Guess it doesn't at Columbia. Talk about hypocrisy. I thought leftys were more open minded.

What does having a ROTC program have to do with free speech? Having ROTC entails a financial obligation on the part of the university to provide office staff, office space, etc., and having a professor of military (or naval or air force) science along with a bunch of instructors.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,400]

> I find it ironic that Columbia will let Ackmindickahead speak at their
>campus but they will not let the ROTC have a chapter on their campus.

I think both ROTC guys and A..jad should be able to speak there. Now, if you want to start an ROTC program OR an Iranian consulate there, that's a different story.

>Doesn't free speech apply to all parties?

Absolutely! Free speech does not equal "a ROTC chapter."

[vpozzoli 0]

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I think it's a self evident pot/kettle thing from the outset.

Actually, it's not so self evident to me. Care to elaborate after reading my response to your question?

Cheers,

Vale

[NCclimber 0]

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I find it ironic that Columbia will let Ackmindickahead speak at their campus but they will not let the ROTC have a chapter on their campus. Doesn't free speech apply to all parties? Guess it doesn't at Columbia. Talk about hypocrisy. I thought leftys were more open minded.

What does having a ROTC program have to do with free speech?

Wasn't ROTC kicked off campus for philosophical reasons?

Wasn't it because some members of Columbia's faculty particularly intolerant of the ROTC and the US Military?

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Having ROTC entails a financial obligation on the part of the university to provide office staff, office space, etc., and having a professor of military (or naval or air force) science along with a bunch of instructors.

Of course, this had little (if anything) to do with why ROTC was kicked off campus.

Nice try, though.

[AWL71 0]

A ROTC chapter has nothing to do with free speech. I just find it deplorable that Columbia University has more kindness for Achmindickahead than they do for the US Military.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[billvon 2,400]

>I just find it deplorable that Columbia University has more kindness for
>Achmindickahead than they do for the US Military.

They are letting him speak once. What about ROTC?

On April 25, 2005, Columbia invited Davida Kellogg, ROTC instructor, to speak at Columbia. On May 17, 2006, Columbia hosted an ROTC commissioning ceremony.

So looks like you are 180 degrees off. (I am sure you can find other things there to hate, though!)

[kelpdiver 2]

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What does having a ROTC program have to do with free speech? Having ROTC entails a financial obligation on the part of the university to provide office staff, office space, etc., and having a professor of military (or naval or air force) science along with a bunch of instructors.

When the San Francisco school system kicked JROTC off the high schools against large dissent from students and parents (and the superintendent), the discussion of $$ never came up. It has always been a political matter.

Kicking ROTC off campus certainly has a dollar impact on students that would have used that to pay for their tuition.

[rehmwa 2]

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Actually, it's not so self evident to me. Care to elaborate after reading my response to your question?

Read it finally. Sounds the same as here.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AWL71 0]

Hate, such a strong word. Big deal, they let a ROTC instructor speak. They should let ROTC return. Most students were in favor of this but Bollinger (university president) blocked it.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[vpozzoli 0]

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Actually, it's not so self evident to me. Care to elaborate after reading my response to your question?

Read it finally. Sounds the same as here.

Sorry, you totally lost me. What should I read?
And what sounds like what?
I feel like I'm missing a piece of the conversation.

Vale

[rehmwa 2]

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Actually, it's not so self evident to me. Care to elaborate after reading my response to your question?

Read it finally. Sounds the same as here.

Sorry, you totally lost me. What should I read?
And what sounds like what?
I feel like I'm missing a piece of the conversation.

Vale

"I" read your response (red, not reed). Thanks, Italy sounds like it has the same policy as most everyone else in the west - including the US.

Edit: Reviewing the e-mail string, I see you were mocking NCclimber instead of implying that the US didn't do this as I had first inferred. My bad.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,400]

> Hate, such a strong word.

Like "deplorable" and "dickahead!"

>Big deal, they let a ROTC instructor speak.

And hosted an ROTC commissioning ceremony - which, I imagine, is a big deal to the people involved.

>They should let ROTC return.

That will probably happen, with time. In the meantime they will continue to pay their ROTC students far more respect than they do this guy. The whole "they hate ROTC and love A...jad" is a GOP talking point with no basis in reality.

[kallend 1,623]

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I find it ironic that Columbia will let Ackmindickahead speak at their campus but they will not let the ROTC have a chapter on their campus. Doesn't free speech apply to all parties? Guess it doesn't at Columbia. Talk about hypocrisy. I thought leftys were more open minded.

What does having a ROTC program have to do with free speech?

Wasn't ROTC kicked off campus for philosophical reasons?

Wasn't it because some members of Columbia's faculty particularly intolerant of the ROTC and the US Military?

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Having ROTC entails a financial obligation on the part of the university to provide office staff, office space, etc., and having a professor of military (or naval or air force) science along with a bunch of instructors.

Of course, this had little (if anything) to do with why ROTC was kicked off campus.

Nice try, though.

Allowing free speech does NOT involve accepting a financial obligation, setting aside office space, hiring support staff, etc.

ROTC does not have "chapters", it is a structured educational program.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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Big deal, they let a ROTC instructor speak.

Well, THAT is what FREE SPEECH is about, isn't it?

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They should let ROTC return. Most students were in favor of this but Bollinger (university president) blocked it.

I expect most students would be in favor of "A" grades in return for no work, too. Students don't run universities any more than unions run corporations.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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Having ROTC entails a financial obligation on the part of the university to provide office staff, office space, etc., and having a professor of military (or naval or air force) science along with a bunch of instructors.

Of course, this had little (if anything) to do with why ROTC was kicked off campus.

Nice try, though.

Allowing free speech does NOT involve accepting a financial obligation, setting aside office space, hiring support staff, etc.

ROTC does not have "chapters", it is a structured educational program.

Where'd all these red herrings come from?

[NCclimber 0]

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They should let ROTC return. Most students were in favor of this but Bollinger (university president) blocked it.

I expect most students would be in favor of "A" grades in return for no work, too. Students don't run universities any more than unions run corporations.

And speaking of crappy analogies...

[kallend 1,623]

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Kicking ROTC off campus certainly has a dollar impact on students that would have used that to pay for their tuition.

If you have a ROTC scholarship there are plenty of schools that will accept you. This has ZERO to do with whether any particular school is obliged to run any particular program, and ROTC is a program.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[kallend 1,623]

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They should let ROTC return. Most students were in favor of this but Bollinger (university president) blocked it.

I expect most students would be in favor of "A" grades in return for no work, too. Students don't run universities any more than unions run corporations.

And speaking of crappy analogies...

Is that the best response you have? You are slipping.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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Having ROTC entails a financial obligation on the part of the university to provide office staff, office space, etc., and having a professor of military (or naval or air force) science along with a bunch of instructors.

Of course, this had little (if anything) to do with why ROTC was kicked off campus.

Nice try, though.

Allowing free speech does NOT involve accepting a financial obligation, setting aside office space, hiring support staff, etc.

ROTC does not have "chapters", it is a structured educational program.

Where'd all these red herrings come from?

Here.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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Quote

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Having ROTC entails a financial obligation on the part of the university to provide office staff, office space, etc., and having a professor of military (or naval or air force) science along with a bunch of instructors.

Of course, this had little (if anything) to do with why ROTC was kicked off campus.

Nice try, though.

Allowing free speech does NOT involve accepting a financial obligation, setting aside office space, hiring support staff, etc.

ROTC does not have "chapters", it is a structured educational program.

Where'd all these red herrings come from?

Here.

Of course, this had little (if anything) to do with why ROTC was kicked off campus.

Nice try, though.

Dayum, this is easy.