diverborg 0 #26 June 25, 2007 QuotePlease cite your sources for your claim that the ACLU would want to prosecute someone for defending themselves. My previous comment was merely a rant/opinion/general feeling I have about the ACLU. I do not have any sources to back my "feelings" nor do I even care to try. It was merely me venting rather than trying to make intelligent debate. Plus the whole story was BS anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #27 June 25, 2007 [replyCare to share your unreliable sources? Or do your sources know more about crime than the FBI? Are you implying the FBI know something about crime? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #28 June 25, 2007 Quote I plan to go to my local gun shop and purchase an AK next week-not kidding. Then hopefully one day I can fulfill my fantasy of killing somebody. Thats great,when/if you do someone else can fulfill their fantasy of arse raping you in prison.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #29 June 25, 2007 QuoteSorry to spoil the fun, but it's not true... There are plenty of real-life armed self defense stories, here: The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files: http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #30 June 25, 2007 QuoteDid you know that aprox 30,000 americans are killed in america every year.... This is typical of the intentional misinformation put-out by the anti-gun folks. What they want the reader here to believe is that there are 30,000 murders per year committed with guns. In fact, over half of the so-called "gun deaths" every year are suicides. And suicide is not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue. Owning a gun does not make someone want to kill themself. If it did, there wouldn't be a gun issue. And studies have proven that people who are suicidal, if denied guns, just find another way to commit their final act. So, this is just anti-gun misleading hype. And now that it's been exposed, I suggest that any further anti-gun information from this user is probably going to be untrustworthy, unless independently verified. Ho hum. Same old crap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #31 June 25, 2007 Here's another linkhttp://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html edited to add: or is it just more misleading hype..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #32 June 25, 2007 QuoteYou're talking about murders i'm talking about firearms related fatalities approx 14 deaths per 100,000 in a country of 300million.http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/27/2/214.pdf First off, out of common courtesy to other posters, learn to link things, rather than simply posting a url. Second, if you must include a link, make sure it works. Yours does not. As to the meat of your post, when you say someone was killed, 99% of the population will understand that to mean murdered. If you said "die in America""deaths related to firearms" that would be much more general (and a fairly useless number, but we'll come to that). Your ability to communicate clearly directly influences your ability to convince your audience (unless you are a gun control fanatic who intentionally obscures truth). *see example below Next, as for suicides, why do you care what method a person chooses to end his own life? Would you prefer hangings? Weighted drownings? Severed arteries? What method would be more acceptable to you than firearms? If your answer is the human, and humane, one, then none of those listed is better or worse than the others. Each is terrible. So why does it matter to you than firearms were involved in suicides? Personally, I'd rather reduce suicides, and homicides for that matter, than reduce gun deaths with no effect on the overall number of deaths. example: from gun controllers' own website http://www.vpc.org/studies/awaconc.htm QuoteThe weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons. Quote I'd like to add i don't have problem with sport shooting pas se but people who go on about the need to own a gun for personal protection,right to carry etc etc and fantasise about killing in so called self defence well imo that is giving a monkey a loaded gun. As for this little bit of random logorrhea at the keyboard, I'm not even sure where to start. First, I love the way you take people who own firearms for self defense and apply the homicidal fantisies to demonize them. While you're at google, doing your "research" that so fastidiously avoids peer-reviewed journals, look up the word "projection." Next, I laughed quite heartily at the "giving a monkey a loaded gun." You ad hominem and strawman attacks were trasnparent enough, but honestly, did you think this would help your case? Or do you believe this drivel? It must be astounding to you how often these 'monkeys' who carry concealed firearms are NOT involved in murders, shootings, violence, or any of the list of disqualifying offences. Are you not aware of how many peole carry concealed every day, and how they commit crimes less often than the rest of the population? Or do you simply ignore the facts that contradict your worldview?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #33 June 25, 2007 QuoteHere's another linkhttp://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html edited to add: or is it just more misleading hype. How about you edit the post to add a reason why you consider method of suicides to be relevant. Are you surprised that a country where owning a firearm is illegal has fewer firearm related deaths than one where people have the freedom to own firearms? Maybe I should put out a study on knife and sword related deaths, and we can all be amazed that Japan and England are horribly violent places to be and the USA is a wonderland?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #34 June 25, 2007 Quote Are you not aware of how many peole carry concealed every day, and how they commit crimes less often than the rest of the population? Or do you simply ignore the facts that contradict your worldview? For the record, in 2006, Texas CHL holders were over 7 times less likely to have been convicted of a crime than the rest of the population of the state. My Texas CHL was issued today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #35 June 25, 2007 So sorry for my computer illiteracy,i,ve first sussed out the link thing on my previous post. To me gun related fatalities means death caused by the use of a firearm and at no time did i use the word murder . Problem i have is that you gun lovers dont seem to relise that you have the potential to flip out and do some serious harm to yourself or others. I dont have a problem with shooting pas se,but i would like to see tighter legisation and i dont buy into the argument of guns needed for self defense in a first world so called civilized country. If your that worried a baseball bat will surfice..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 June 25, 2007 Quoteyou have the potential to flip out and do some serious harm to yourself or others I just wanted to see that again all by itself - before going back into my bubble wrap cave of paranoia I might just print it on some stickies and put them on my tools, rig, and the dashboard of my car god, I wish I didn't have to sit through that 5 day waiting period for my nail gun - I'm angry RIGHT NOW. It wouldn't be so bad, but the voices keep telling me to burn things. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #37 June 25, 2007 Guess shit never happens,to you crack on..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #38 June 25, 2007 QuoteGuess shit never happens,to you crack on. By all means, if you think you might lose it at any time, please refrain from firearms purchases. No one wants you to have one. I'm happy to see laws that prohibit gun sales to: criminals, people with violent mental conditions, drug users, alcohol abusers, idiots, and people scared of guns that would more likely shoot themselves due to unreasonable fear of a thing of course to protect their rights, these conditions need to be documented in an unbiased manner If you think average joe is always one step away from losing it, then you might want a bit of introspection before worrying about the rest of the law abiding citizenry. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #39 June 25, 2007 QuoteHere's another linkhttp://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html edited to add: or is it just more misleading hype. Pretty much yes- misleading hype: Quote ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found. The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000. So Japan looks great, right? Unless you examine the suicide rates between the two. The US was at 21.7 per 100,000 in 1999, while Japan was at an astounding 50.6, and the numbers have only gone up. Quote http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FG28Dh01.html The figures for 2003 paint an exceedingly grim picture, showing that a record 34,427 Japanese men and women took their own lives last year. According to the latest statistics from the National Police Agency (NPA), the number of suicides has increased by 7.1%, or 2,284 more lives lost than in 2002. Many people believe the long recession is a key factor behind the rise. The US has about the same number of suicides - a bit over 30,000 - and a slight majority (57-58%) of them are with guns. Since the Japanese don't have access to guns, they use other methods to kill themselves. If they had guns, their "rate of gun death" would be markedly higher, since roughly two thirds of the US ones are suicides. It's not by accident that your citation chooses 13 year old data - violent crime in the US last peaked in 93-94 and has dropped about 50% to the trough in 2000, and has been slowly climbing since to about 40% off that peak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #40 June 25, 2007 You just never know when you're gonna go.... I'm fortunate in the fact that i dont need a gun or want one..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #41 June 25, 2007 QuoteYou just never know when you're gonna go.... I'm fortunate in the fact that i dont need a gun or want one. How do you know that? Which Beatle was nearly stabbed to death? Bet he wishes he had one. And you know he has better home security than most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #42 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteYou just never know when you're gonna go.... I'm fortunate in the fact that i dont need a gun or want one. How do you know that? . I think he meant that "You just never know when you're gonna go...." bonkers. does that clarify things? Not needing or wanting a gun? That's fine, it's a personal choice that no gun owner would try to control for him. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #43 June 25, 2007 I'd rather be killed,afraid of death not..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #44 June 25, 2007 Case of kettle and pot i fear..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 June 25, 2007 QuoteCase of kettle and pot i fear. ??? I was thinking you were referring to the earlier comment about "flipping out", I guess I was incorrect. Sorry to try and help. But now you've gone somewhere I'm not following. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #46 June 25, 2007 Quote I'm fortunate in the fact that i dont need a gun or want one. That's fine. Doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is the anti-gun people trying to make the same decision for me. I take comfort in the fact that if someone breaks into my place in the middle of the night, I have more options than calling the police and hoping they get there in time. A .40 with 12rnds of 180gr HPs always seemed like a much more effective method of defense than my phone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #47 June 25, 2007 QuoteA .40 with 12rnds of 180gr HPs always seemed like a much more effective method of defense than my phone. You've obviously never been hit on the head with a phone. It REALLY stings. I've been waiting for 3 weeks for my phone background check to clear. Then I can make nice, controlled, calm phone calls to friends and family. And, talk to all the nice phone salesmen. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #48 June 25, 2007 I suggest you lose the .40 and get a tazer there's no arguing with 50'000volts either.edited to add that really would sting..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #49 June 25, 2007 Quote I suggest you lose the .40 and get a tazer there's no arguing with 50'000 either. I thought about getting one of those, but ended up buying a .380 and .45acp instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #50 June 25, 2007 Tazer might be a better option less paperwork maybe..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
