Frenchy68 0 #51 April 27, 2007 Quote I would eviscerate the entire movie-making industry in LA ... Ouch... Quote the business of the celluloid phonies... Beaucoup ouch... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #52 April 27, 2007 I will just say I come from the tape trading generation and burn cds to put them on my ipod. I don't mind artists protecting their music to extent, but I will also say they are crippling promotion of their music. I will only buy something after I have heard it and the quality of the material makes me want to add it to my personal collection. Further, if the music really stands on it's own, I replace it if the disc gets damaged. Controlling the sharing of music fucks the consumer from the standpoint of making you own it before you can evaluate it. Pretty packaging and promotion sells it instead of the product itself. Further, seeing how shitty artists far outnumber true innovators, the odds are against the consumer to buy a piece of shit that goes to the cd warehouse shortly after. Not to mention, most artists or producers are emulating artists or producers they like anyway. A band like Nirvana comes out and there are 20 bands behind them with similar song structure, vocals and production value. Do they ever sue because somebody copped their sound though seemingly and quite delibrately a producer has tried to make another band like theirs to turn some coin? Do you ever worry about your influences coming back and suing you? Ultimately, the music needs to stand on its own first and then people will want to own it. Own the music, the artwork, and ever little bit of info they can get from the artist they revere. Interfering with the evaluative process in this way may make good economic sense, but is terrible for the artform. The consumer ends up with music more because the were marketed to rather than had a chance to evaluate it. So, I am farting in Jack's general direction... that's my 2 cents, Hixxxdeath,as men call him, ends what they call men -but beauty is more now than dying’s when Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #53 April 27, 2007 Good riddance. He needs to go to the "special hell" reserved for people that talk at the movies.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #54 April 27, 2007 Is he still dead? Sometimes these vampire bastards come back to life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #55 May 1, 2007 Just part of the horrendous legacy of the lich..... http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/05/01/1935250.shtml Some of the comments are worth a read, here's one..... Quote If you had a lock that kept out only the people you actually wanted in, but couldn't keep out those that were actually going to rob you blind, one would think that your solution might be a little more robust than "I'll sue anyone who reports how badly my lock works". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #56 May 1, 2007 Quote Quote If you had a lock that kept out only the people you actually wanted in, but couldn't keep out those that were actually going to rob you blind, one would think that your solution might be a little more robust than "I'll sue anyone who reports how badly my lock works". Love It!!!"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #57 May 2, 2007 US Copyright law gives me, as an educator, the fair use right to make a compilation of movie clips that show (for example) violations of the laws of physics to show to my physics class. DMR prevents me from doing that which the law explicitly allows.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #58 May 2, 2007 Quote US Copyright law gives me, as an educator, the fair use right to make a compilation of movie clips that show (for example) violations of the laws of physics to show to my physics class. DMR prevents me from doing that which the law explicitly allows. No, DMR doesn't preclude you from ripping content/bypassing DMR for purposes of use in the classroom. 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(1) specifically allows you to do so. Specifically check out paragraph one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #59 May 2, 2007 And the DMCA makes circumventing any DRM a crime, no matter how flimsy. This has been abused so badly that we've even had a student threatened with a lawsuit for posting a message online that CDs won't autorun if you hold down the shift key on a PC, that would make Microsoft a bigger culprit in this regard, but the unholy alliance is now complete, we can probably expect to see such OS utility vanquished in future since the interference in the internal operations of PC systems goes far deeper that such trivialities. Closer to home (w.r.t. MPAA) the state department has been strongarming countries around the globe about conformance with DMCA legislation most notoriously in the case of the persecution of Jon Lech Johansen who quite legally reverse engineered the CSS decryption algorithm used to decrypt DVDs in his home country. Something you used to be able to do in the USA. Intelligent freedom loving people everywhere hailed "DVD Jon" as a hero. I have his code on a T-shirt that it is now illegal to sell in the USA, despite the code being prevalent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #60 May 2, 2007 Quote No, DMR doesn't preclude you from ripping content/bypassing DMR for purposes of use in the classroom. When software that might make fair use possible is illegal and the author branded a criminal and the code illegal to print on a T-shirt is every high school teacher supposed to reverse engineer content scrambling themselves? Perhaps we should mail Sony our DVD along with a grovelling letter to ask that they allow us to exercise our rights whenever we encounter a fair use scenario. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #61 May 2, 2007 This thread is both funny and sad. Really it is very simple.. (And this applies to Software, Music, or DVDs) If you dont like the License agreement.. Dont buy it. Enough people do this and the people selling the license will change the license. BUT DONT Buy it and bitch about what you bought. You Buy a CD.. YOU have a right to listen to it and SOME rights as to how you can back it up or transfer the contents to other media for personal use. If you dont like that.. DONT Buy it. You Buy an MP3 or other digital format Song off line.. Know what you are buying. If you dont like the rules attached to that purchase, DONT BUY it. (Dont steal it either.. You do not have a God Given right to have a copy of anything.) You buy a DVD.. You have the right to watch the contents in your home. You do NOT have a right to make copies. If you dont like that.. DONT Buy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #62 May 2, 2007 The sad thing is people who don't understand what freedoms are at stake. Can I purchase a PC uencumbered by DRM costs? Can I build a functional multimedia computer using open source software and the hardware I've purchased or should we let corporations collude to make this impossible? Can I exercise my fair use RIGHTS recognized in law with the property I own, not what some Sony exec wants to dictate I can't do? This is no smarter that the battle against the VCR but he implications are broad. You have a very blasé atttude to your rights being erroded for corporate gain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #63 May 2, 2007 Rights?? What Rights ?? Who granted these rights?? You buy something. There are terms for the use of what you are buying. Dont like the terms. DONT BUY IT!! Quote Can I exercise my fair use RIGHTS recognized in law with the property I own, What Property?? The Media it came on?? You Buy a CD.. You purchase the right to listen to the contents in accordance to the license agreement. Beyond that.. YOU have no "Rights". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #64 May 2, 2007 It's not for us to come begging to YOU for rights to be GRANTED. We have innate intellectual abilities which YOU seek to curtail. By what RIGHT to YOU ask to curtail the intellectual and physical endeavors of others? You're forgetting that the power to pass laws for the exclusive benefit of a few corporations is vested by the people. Moreover there are rights granted by law that and the courts. Fair use rights etc. Corporate monopolists dictating what we can & cannot do, won't fly. Just because some peckerhead writes some shit on a shrinkwrap doesn't make it legal under the law, that is for the courts to decide, but DVDs don't even HAVE a contract so what the hell are you talking about a license, where did John Q Public sign? What you are doing is criminalizing legal activities, criminalizing human progress and industry. The onus is on the person seeking to invent new crimes to justify the artificial system they seek to impose upon the rest of us. Not the other way around. The most ridiculous part of your discussion is it deals exclusively with people who LEGALLY PURCHASD a DVD, we're not even in the realms of piracy, yet you bleat about licenses and the rights and advocate the abuse of the customers who actually BUY the product forgetting that the real beef is with those who DON'T. The MPAA struggles under the same illusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #65 May 2, 2007 Quote You Buy a CD.. P.S. CDs are unencumbered by DRM and allow fair use, the format predates copy protection (although autorun has been abused). If CDs were devised by lich Valenti and his mob: Ripping your CD collection to iTunes to play the tunes you purchased on your computer or iPod would be impossible. At best you'd have to pay for everything again on iTunes store (nice business if you can get it). Any software which allowed you to make a copy of a CD for personal use would be deemed illegal. You would not be able to play CDs on a PC without purchasing a licensed player including a hefty fee, despite your hardware being perfectly capable of playing the content. CDs would only work in players from one part of the world, if you purchased a CD on vacation it would not work in any of your players in the USA. Unfortunately if this gives you the impression all is well with music you would be mistaken. Assholes (Valenti wanabes) have tried to screw up CDs by using autorun to install malware on your PC without warning or permission that permanently screws with your multimedia software and even installed rootkit vulnerabilities on customer PCs in one case. Buy a CD, pop it in your PC rom reader and you get some free malware courtesy of Sony. Fortunately Sony got on deep shit for this stunt, and pressing the shift key on your keyboard is not yet seen as a crime under the DMCA, much to the chagrin of various corporate lawyers. Despite the prevalence of CDs everywhere with trivially rippable high quality songs without encryption, all of which is fair use, if you actually PURCHASE a song online it is still encumbered by DRM . Apple recently announced a deal where this was lifted, of course they charge the law abiding customer more for the freedom. (and they have the cheek to call others pirates). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #66 May 2, 2007 QuoteIt's not for us to come begging to YOU for rights to be GRANTED. It is If it is my Intellectual and /or copy written Property that you would like use. QuoteWe have innate intellectual abilities which YOU seek to curtail. Curtail?? Hell actually it is more like encourage. Don’t want to pay to listen to my Music or use My Software in accordance with the rights I am willing to grant you.. Create your own. QuoteYou're forgetting that the power to pass laws for the exclusive benefit of a few corporations is vested by the people. Weather the huge evil meanie Corporate Monster or the small 10 employee Software company or the street corner musician.. The same laws protect everyone equally. QuoteCorporate monopolists dictating what we can & cannot do and the small 10 employee Software company and the street corner musician.. All the same. They own something and sell a license to use it/watch it/ listen to it in a predefined way. If you dont think that predefined way is acceptable.. DONT BUY IT. Beyond that, YOU have NO rights to anyone else’s (Intellectual or copy written) property. QuoteJust because some peckerhead writes some shit on a shrinkwrap doesn't make it legal under the law UHHH??? What??? I am afraid the courts disagree with you. The shrink warp verbiage tells you exactly what you can and cant do with the package you are buying.. Dont like that?? DONT BUY IT!! Quotebut DVDs don't even HAVE a contract so what the hell are you talking about a license, where did John Q Public sign? Well there is that HUGE FBI warning that starts just about every DVD out there. Dont like the terms.. DONT BUY IT!! QuoteWhat you are doing is criminalizing legal activities, criminalizing human progress and industry. What legal Activities?? Making copies of something that you were NOT granted the rights to copy? Sorry.. dont see how that is legal at all. Buy software.. There will be a License Agreement that you will have to accept during the installation. If the terms of that agreement are not acceptable to you, The agreement will tell you what your options are and how to return the software. Buy a DVD.. You have the right to watch that DVD. You do not have the right to make Copies or Show it in Public venues or anything else. Quotee onus is on the person seeking to invent new crimes to justify the artificial system they seek to impose upon the rest of us. No new crimes here. Copyrights have been around for a long time. QuoteThe most ridiculous part of your discussion is it deals exclusively with people who LEGALLY PURCHASD a DVD, You purchased a right to watch that DVD within your own home. A right to make copies is not included and specifically made clear that is not allowed. You want to buy rights to make copies, Contact the person or evil corporation that owns those rights, I’m sure they will quote you a price (If they are interested in allowing this). If not, Tough SHIT! It is their property. Go make your own movies/software/music. QuoteBUY the product You misunderstanding is exactly what is the "product". The "Product" you are buying is the Media and a Limited use license. If that is not acceptable to you, DONT BUY IT!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #67 May 2, 2007 QuoteRipping your CD collection to iTunes to play the tunes you purchased on your computer or iPod would be impossible. At best you'd have to pay for everything again on iTunes store (nice business if you can get it). Kinda like you did when you switched from Vinyl to Cassettes and then from cassettes to CD`s. Most of the older people on here can tell you how we have all bought the exact same albums in Soooo Many formats over the years. Now there is another new format.. Same for VHS movies that people bought and then rebought in DVD format. QuoteAssholes (Valenti wanabes) have tried to screw up CDs by using autorun to install malware on your PC without warning or permission that permanently screws with your multimedia software and even installed rootkit vulnerabilities on customer PCs in one case. Buy a CD, pop it in your PC rom reader and you get some free malware courtesy of Sony. On this we completely agree. SONY should have been sued into oblivion for that fiasco but that is a seperate issue. They made a horrible choice in how to protect their property. QuoteAny software which allowed you to make a copy of a CD for personal use would be deemed illegal. Well if that software is designed to help you do something that you dont have the right to do, Shouldn’t it be illegal? If the copyright holder did not give you the right to Copy their work beyond the media it came on, you do not have the right to make copies. Plain and simple. Don’t like that.. DON’T BUY IT!! QuotePURCHASE a song online it is still encumbered by DRM Yep. The copyright holder are trying to protect their property. If you don’t like that.. DONT BUY IT!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #68 May 2, 2007 Now you seem to be saying that you have NO rights at all to the music you 'licensed', just ownership of the media, but you're also wrong in the practical sense because there is overlappng use of multiple media today, e.g. CDs and iPods. The issue is moot as it applies to CDs but it is instructive to see what has happened with the DMCA, it is legal, to copy CDs but the problem here is that all someone needs to do to screw with rights you enjoy today is come up with a trivially modified format and you don't just lose the ability to copy, it becomes illegal to circumvent the new format thanks to the DMCA. That sucking noise is your rights disappearing. They have tried this, for example idiotic attempts stop the circumvention autorun. But this should trouble anyone, fair use rights that exist and are used legally to the great benefit of legal consumers everywhere go out the window as a result of any trivial contrivance these guys can force on you. CDs are not there yet, DVDs are, thanks to assholes like Valenti. So who do these laws benefit and who do they screw? Remind me again where the power to pass laws comes from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #69 May 2, 2007 Quote If you don’t like that.. DONT BUY IT!! That's what Standard Oil said. You make a lot of assertions that are just not true w.r.t. the fair use rights people have to copy the works they have purchased. We have a system of laws that protect people from exploitation and frowns upon unjust enrichment, an example of which would be getting paid for the same work twice. Analogizing over format changes where no transfer is possible to justify artificial restrictions devised to prevent a transfer is not making a case. You might want to notice the word fair in the phrase fair use. It was established in law that we do have a right to make fair use copies of works we purchase. Devices that might be used to copy (specifically the VCR) are not illegal because someone MIGHT break the law, the legitimate legal use they are put to protects them (bastards like the vampire Valenti lost that one). Once again the right to make legal copies of your CD collection exists today. Almost everyone with an mp3 player does this and it is legal. They are not obliged to purchase twice so what point are you trying to make? You are arguing for rights being removed by pretending that there is no right that exists or is used today. For CDs there is a right, it is fair use, it is legal, it exists today and millions of Americans enjoy and exercise those rights every day. In the area of DVDs the same rights have been stolen by Valenti and other bastards, and he is justly reviled for his corrupting influence in stripping our rights, a cause to which the greedy fuck devoted a great deal of his time and energy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #70 May 2, 2007 Quote That's what Standard Oil said. Sorry but in now way do you HAVE to have music or movies. Sorry I just cant buy that no matter how you spin it. If you want Music, Movies or software, You can pay what the copyright holder wants or you can not buy it. Your choice. Quote In the area of DVDs the same rights have been stolen by Valenti and other bastards, Stolen?? How did he steal the right form you?? YOU NEVER HAD the right. You may have had the Abilty to do that at one time, But you NEVER had the RIGHT to do it. Quote and he is justly reviled for his corrupting influence in stripping our rights Again.. WHAT Rights?? His job was to protect the intellectual property and copyrights and to prevent those propeties from being distributed. He did his job very well. What you call Greedy, I call making a living. Those greeedy Fucks at Starbucks want $4 fo a cup of coffee.. I can either buy it or not. The greedy Fucks at Paramount want $24 for the latest movie on DVD. For that fee you can watch it as ofen as you like in your own home but cant make copies. You can Buy it or not. It is up to you. BUT DONT buy it and then complain that you want something other than what you bought. (Edit: Thank you for partisipating in the Jello-J "Let me Push your Buttons" thread of the Day. Tune in tommorow for another exciting chapter as I pick another random topic that I really dont give a rats ass about and to argue about!!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #71 May 2, 2007 You keep saying "what rights" even as it applies to CDs, if you are so ill informed why attempt to contribute to a debate? The extant rights to make fair use copies of the works you purchase. You denying rights exist or ever existed is flat wrong. How many times and how many ways do I have to say exactly what rights exist and have you completely ignore the facts and make the same post? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #72 May 2, 2007 One more time for the really slow... What Rights have you been deprived of?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #73 May 2, 2007 QuoteOne more time for the really slow... What Rights have you been deprived of?? I see you claimed to be trolling in your previous post. You are either posting dishonestly or too lazy to read the posts I have made. If you want an answer it has been supplied at least five times in my earlier replies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #74 May 2, 2007 In no way am I trolling. But I do enjoy pushing your buttons on this. I have read and reread your posts. No where do I see where you have clearly stated what Rights were stolen form you. The right to make Backups of DVD?? You never had the "Right". CD`s?? You can still rip to your hearts content. What am I missing?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #75 May 2, 2007 I pointed out you can rip CD's thanks. According to you it's illegal when you joined in here. You are completely oblivious to what is going on or how encrypting a format factors in here. Get back to me when you have actually learned about the impact of the DMCA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
